Those solderless epoxy glue sold at HD any good for connection of hot and
cold water copper pipes good for new permanent installation not quick fix?
Anyone with experience?

"Jack" n wrote in message
. ..
Those solderless epoxy glue sold at HD any good for connection of hot and
cold water copper pipes good for new permanent installation not quick fix?
Anyone with experience?
I used epoxy on two cold water joints. When I wanted to use it 6 months
later after the first use, it had gone bad. I wouldn't buy it again for
that reason; too expensive for two joints. However, it was several years
ago, and no leaks yet.

"Toller" wrote in message
...

"Jack" n wrote in message
. ..
Those solderless epoxy glue sold at HD any good for connection of hot and
cold water copper pipes good for new permanent installation not quick
fix? Anyone with experience?
I used epoxy on two cold water joints. When I wanted to use it 6 months
later after the first use, it had gone bad. I wouldn't buy it again for
that reason; too expensive for two joints. However, it was several years
ago, and no leaks yet.



What's preventing you from using a standard solder joint? I'm always a
bit leery of new products just cause who knows how they'll work in 10-20
years. Soldering has been pretty well proven.
Cheers,
cc

"James "Cubby" Culbertson" wrote in message
...

"Toller" wrote in message
...

"Jack" n wrote in message
. ..
Those solderless epoxy glue sold at HD any good for connection of hot
and cold water copper pipes good for new permanent installation not
quick fix? Anyone with experience?
I used epoxy on two cold water joints. When I wanted to use it 6 months
later after the first use, it had gone bad. I wouldn't buy it again for
that reason; too expensive for two joints. However, it was several years
ago, and no leaks yet.



What's preventing you from using a standard solder joint? I'm always a
bit leery of new products just cause who knows how they'll work in 10-20
years. Soldering has been pretty well proven.
Cheers,
cc
Cause the pipe was right up against wood and it seemed like an appropriate
solution. The epoxy in laminated FG hasn't failed in the 50 years it has
been in use; why should this?

Toller wrote:
"James "Cubby" Culbertson" wrote in message
...

"Toller" wrote in message
...

"Jack" n wrote in message
om...

Those solderless epoxy glue sold at HD any good for connection of hot
and cold water copper pipes good for new permanent installation not
quick fix? Anyone with experience?

I used epoxy on two cold water joints. When I wanted to use it 6 months
later after the first use, it had gone bad. I wouldn't buy it again for
that reason; too expensive for two joints. However, it was several years
ago, and no leaks yet.



What's preventing you from using a standard solder joint? I'm always a
bit leery of new products just cause who knows how they'll work in 10-20
years. Soldering has been pretty well proven.
Cheers,
cc

Cause the pipe was right up against wood and it seemed like an appropriate
solution. The epoxy in laminated FG hasn't failed in the 50 years it has
been in use; why should this?


Hi,
Then try it and let us know. Right up against wood? You can use sheet
metal as flame shield while soldering.

take a piece of ceramic tile and slide it behind to protect the wood

"James "Cubby" Culbertson" wrote in message
...

"Toller" wrote in message
...

"Jack" n wrote in message
. ..
Those solderless epoxy glue sold at HD any good for connection of hot
and cold water copper pipes good for new permanent installation not
quick fix? Anyone with experience?
I used epoxy on two cold water joints. When I wanted to use it 6 months
later after the first use, it had gone bad. I wouldn't buy it again for
that reason; too expensive for two joints. However, it was several years
ago, and no leaks yet.



What's preventing you from using a standard solder joint? I'm always a
bit leery of new products just cause who knows how they'll work in 10-20
years. Soldering has been pretty well proven.
Cheers,
cc



I could think of a few reasons of using the epoxy if it really works:

1 Where the water couldn't be turn off completely so solder is useless for
guys like me. Sometimes the white bread trick works sometimes it doesn't.
This product at Home Depot suppose to set up under water so a bad shut off
valve won't be an issue.

2. If you have a large pipe and the little propane torch couldn't get it
hot enough to solder.

3 I had an isolation union where the gasket was too close to the fitting
and the heat from the torch melted it even after wrapping it with a wet
towel. Bummer. Also you don't have to remove the seals/washers from the
shutoff valves before you solder.

4. I'm under the crawl space doing a whole house copper re-pipe. Some
places where there isn't much room to play around, the flame and dripping
solder is just an inch or two from my face or parts of my body. I got burn a
few days ago by touching a hot tee with my arm - so easy to do if you're
crawling around hot pipes.

I still prefer solder because I don't know the long term issues about the
glue so hence my original post. So many of those new products just don't
work especially when you see it in the infomercials. This new product would
be so nice if it has the same reliability like the PVC glue. No PVC glue
failures after 30 years from my landscape piping! It outlasted my galvanized
pipes under my house.

On Thu, 25 May 2006 17:14:11 -0700, "Jack" n wrote:

Those solderless epoxy glue sold at HD any good for connection of hot and
cold water copper pipes good for new permanent installation not quick fix?
Anyone with experience?


why?

Off hand I would worry about toxicity, movement underprolonged heat
and mechanical failure from differential rates of expansion. I also
note that if it worked well with minor problems the industry would
have changed to it years ago. Torches are a safety hazard.

On Fri, 26 May 2006 03:26:15 GMT, "Toller" wrote:


"James "Cubby" Culbertson" wrote in message
...

"Toller" wrote in message
...

"Jack" n wrote in message
. ..
Those solderless epoxy glue sold at HD any good for connection of hot
and cold water copper pipes good for new permanent installation not
quick fix? Anyone with experience?
I used epoxy on two cold water joints. When I wanted to use it 6 months
later after the first use, it had gone bad. I wouldn't buy it again for
that reason; too expensive for two joints. However, it was several years
ago, and no leaks yet.



What's preventing you from using a standard solder joint? I'm always a
bit leery of new products just cause who knows how they'll work in 10-20
years. Soldering has been pretty well proven.
Cheers,
cc
Cause the pipe was right up against wood and it seemed like an appropriate
solution. The epoxy in laminated FG hasn't failed in the 50 years it has
been in use; why should this?


If its right against wood, (as in going into a wall) you solder the
entire section and push it in place. Then do your final solder job
away from wood, or use a union.

If its just against a floor joist, cut off a few inches and make the
new piece longer.

Of course there are asbestos pads and tin to prevent burning wood.

Mark

In article , "Jack" n wrote:
I could think of a few reasons of using the epoxy if it really works:

1 Where the water couldn't be turn off completely so solder is useless for
guys like me. Sometimes the white bread trick works sometimes it doesn't.

There are commercial products available for that, too, that supposedly work
better than bread.

This product at Home Depot suppose to set up under water so a bad shut off
valve won't be an issue.

As long as the product does what it claims... :-)

2. If you have a large pipe and the little propane torch couldn't get it
hot enough to solder.

Best solution to that problem is a better torch. MAPP is a huge improvement
over propane.

Your other points are well taken, though.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

On Fri, 26 May 2006, nothermark wrote:

Off hand I would worry about toxicity, movement underprolonged heat
and mechanical failure from differential rates of expansion. I also
note that if it worked well with minor problems the industry would
have changed to it years ago. Torches are a safety hazard.

I bought some of this stuff for a difficult to reach spot.

My impression of it is that for quantity use solder is much cheaper hence
the industry hasn't moved.

Plus, like PVC pipe, it takes away much of the 'value add' a plumber
brings for people who don't like working around flame, having stuff have a
pinhole leak, and having to work around flame again.

Supposedly it can be used for potable water and is approved for it in some
localities and is generally approved for sprinkler pipe. With copper
prices what they are lately I can't imagine who is using copper for that,
however. When copper was cheaper it probably allowed a contractor to use
less expensive labor to install sprinker who might otherwise have been
prone to accidentally burning down buildings or scratching their heads
with a lit torch.

Paul

On Fri, 26 May 2006 03:26:15 GMT, "Toller" wrote:


"James "Cubby" Culbertson" wrote in message
...

"Toller" wrote in message
...

"Jack" n wrote in message
. ..
Those solderless epoxy glue sold at HD any good for connection of hot
and cold water copper pipes good for new permanent installation not
quick fix? Anyone with experience?
I used epoxy on two cold water joints. When I wanted to use it 6 months
later after the first use, it had gone bad. I wouldn't buy it again for
that reason; too expensive for two joints. However, it was several years
ago, and no leaks yet.



What's preventing you from using a standard solder joint? I'm always a
bit leery of new products just cause who knows how they'll work in 10-20
years. Soldering has been pretty well proven.
Cheers,
cc
Cause the pipe was right up against wood and it seemed like an appropriate
solution. The epoxy in laminated FG hasn't failed in the 50 years it has
been in use; why should this?


Totally different concept. Even assuming the resin used to make a
boat was epoxy (most are not). the boat hull is depending on the
molecules cross linking into a strong solid. For water pipe you are
looking at bonding two materials. Bonding stregth is an entirely
different property.

In article , "Jack" n wrote:
Those solderless epoxy glue sold at HD any good for connection of hot and
cold water copper pipes good for new permanent installation not quick fix?
Anyone with experience?



I am not a plumber. I really don't like plumbing, but I do what I have to.

Several years ago, maybe ten years or so I had to replace some pipes. Small
job. The guy at the hardware store recommended an epoxy. I think it was called
CopperBond. I used it and it worked fine. This was on a cold water line and
it's still good. It's supposed to work on hot too, but I never used it for
that.

You still have to have everything clean and dry, but you have a few minutes to
move things around if you need to. Anybody who knows what they are doing would
probably do better with solder, but I don't know what I'm doing and the epoxy
worked well for me. After ten or so years, I'd call it permanent.

Tom

nothermark wrote:
On Fri, 26 May 2006 03:26:15 GMT, "Toller" wrote:


"James "Cubby" Culbertson" wrote in message
...

"Toller" wrote in message
...

"Jack" n wrote in message
. ..
Those solderless epoxy glue sold at HD any good for connection of hot
and cold water copper pipes good for new permanent installation not
quick fix? Anyone with experience?
I used epoxy on two cold water joints. When I wanted to use it 6 months
later after the first use, it had gone bad. I wouldn't buy it again for
that reason; too expensive for two joints. However, it was several years
ago, and no leaks yet.



What's preventing you from using a standard solder joint? I'm always a
bit leery of new products just cause who knows how they'll work in 10-20
years. Soldering has been pretty well proven.
Cheers,
cc
Cause the pipe was right up against wood and it seemed like an appropriate
solution. The epoxy in laminated FG hasn't failed in the 50 years it has
been in use; why should this?


Totally different concept. Even assuming the resin used to make a
boat was epoxy (most are not). the boat hull is depending on the
molecules cross linking into a strong solid. For water pipe you are
looking at bonding two materials. Bonding stregth is an entirely
different property.



And the boat analogy is not a very good one for another reason too.
Just about every major boat manufacturer has had hull problems at one
time or another related to gelcoat blisters, despite the process being
done under factory conditions far more perfect than a home pipe repair.
Those problems didn't surface until years later.

replying to Doug Miller, Ned wrote:
spambait wrote:

There are commercial products available for that, too, that supposedly
work
better than bread.
As long as the product does what it claims... :-)
Best solution to that problem is a better torch. MAPP is a huge
improvement
over propane.
Your other points are well taken, though.


Used copper epoxy some 21 years ago when I ran a new line to an external
hose bib. It is still leak free.


--

On Friday, May 26, 2006 at 7:36:24 AM UTC-4, Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "Jack" n wrote:
I could think of a few reasons of using the epoxy if it really works:

1 Where the water couldn't be turn off completely so solder is useless for
guys like me. Sometimes the white bread trick works sometimes it doesn't.

There are commercial products available for that, too, that supposedly work
better than bread.

This product at Home Depot suppose to set up under water so a bad shut off
valve won't be an issue.

As long as the product does what it claims... :-)

2. If you have a large pipe and the little propane torch couldn't get it
hot enough to solder.

Best solution to that problem is a better torch. MAPP is a huge improvement
over propane.

I would upgrade to PEX, its cheap[ so no one will steal it. resists freezing and if it freezes it just expands a little. no harm done. when things warm up it goes back to normal.

i had a mapp gas torch, and when the tank ran out the new one didnt appear as hot.

wikipedia soved that they quit making real mapp gas. the new mapp is propane ehanced with extra volatiles. i had a bunch of copper fittings to do so I bought a air acetelyne torch it works well but cost 300 bucks....

I've used them with some success.

If carefully done they should be as strong a solder.

They might even be better than some of the new lead free stuff, I'm not sure.

The one great drawback is if you need to remove it later. It's easy to reheat solder and pull it off. I'm not sure how you get glue to release, it may just be impossible.

On Thursday, May 25, 2006 at 7:14:11 PM UTC-5, Jack wrote:
Those solderless epoxy glue sold at HD any good for connection of hot and
cold water copper pipes good for new permanent installation not quick fix?
Anyone with experience?

I'd use the SharkBite connectors if I had a hard to access pipe and only needed to make a few connections. The line of fittings is expensive, very versatile and reusable. No torch and solder is needed, the connection is instant and you can do it with water in the pipes. For me, time is money. When I was working, I could be in and out quickly without having to drag the torch, solder and flux out. The price of the fitting is less than the cost of the labor needed for a proper conventional repair. 8-)

http://www.homedepot.com/p/SharkBite...8LFA/202270492

http://preview.tinyurl.com/lswyazw

[8~{} Uncle Plumbing Monster