I presently have a 220V subpanel in my garage, the circuit is wired
with 6 gauge wire on a 60A circuit breaker.

This circuit is inside a 3/4" conduit. It is comprised of three 6
gauge wires (two hots and neutral, with conduit being the ground).

I now realize that choosing that low capacity was a mistake. (with a
big welder now in the picture) I would like to know just what would be
involved if I wanted to upgrade to 100A.

Can I be able to squeeze, say, two 4 gauge conductors (hots), plus one
8 gauge conductor (neutral), into a 3/4" conduit? Or will I have to
replace the conduit too?

I am very regretful of not doing the right thing and going for max
capacity. When I did it, the only 220V tool I had was a 3 HP
vertical compressor.

i

"Ignoramus18798" wrote in message
...
I presently have a 220V subpanel in my garage, the circuit is wired
with 6 gauge wire on a 60A circuit breaker.

This circuit is inside a 3/4" conduit. It is comprised of three 6
gauge wires (two hots and neutral, with conduit being the ground).

I now realize that choosing that low capacity was a mistake. (with a
big welder now in the picture) I would like to know just what would be
involved if I wanted to upgrade to 100A.

Can I be able to squeeze, say, two 4 gauge conductors (hots), plus one
8 gauge conductor (neutral), into a 3/4" conduit? Or will I have to
replace the conduit too?

I am very regretful of not doing the right thing and going for max
capacity. When I did it, the only 220V tool I had was a 3 HP
vertical compressor.

Can't answer your question (at least not without looking it up...) but
wonder if you have the electrical capacity in your panel for a 100a sub.

On Mon, 22 May 2006 13:51:25 GMT, Toller wrote:

"Ignoramus18798" wrote in message
...
I presently have a 220V subpanel in my garage, the circuit is wired
with 6 gauge wire on a 60A circuit breaker.

This circuit is inside a 3/4" conduit. It is comprised of three 6
gauge wires (two hots and neutral, with conduit being the ground).

I now realize that choosing that low capacity was a mistake. (with a
big welder now in the picture) I would like to know just what would be
involved if I wanted to upgrade to 100A.

Can I be able to squeeze, say, two 4 gauge conductors (hots), plus one
8 gauge conductor (neutral), into a 3/4" conduit? Or will I have to
replace the conduit too?

I am very regretful of not doing the right thing and going for max
capacity. When I did it, the only 220V tool I had was a 3 HP
vertical compressor.

Can't answer your question (at least not without looking it up...) but
wonder if you have the electrical capacity in your panel for a 100a sub.

Good question.

I have a 200A panel. The big loads that I may have is a 28A air
conditioner and a 50A kitchen range.

The garage circuit is used for my hobby stuff (compressor, welder),
and, as such, is used very intermittently. As you can guess, the
welder is also going to be used at a low duty cycle, it is not a
production style situation.

That's some data for me to ponder.

i

On Mon, 22 May 2006 11:03:11 -0400, wrote:
On Mon, 22 May 2006 13:58:15 GMT, Ignoramus18798
wrote:

On Mon, 22 May 2006 13:51:25 GMT, Toller wrote:

"Ignoramus18798" wrote in message
...
I presently have a 220V subpanel in my garage, the circuit is wired
with 6 gauge wire on a 60A circuit breaker.

This circuit is inside a 3/4" conduit. It is comprised of three 6
gauge wires (two hots and neutral, with conduit being the ground).

I now realize that choosing that low capacity was a mistake. (with a
big welder now in the picture) I would like to know just what would be
involved if I wanted to upgrade to 100A.

Can I be able to squeeze, say, two 4 gauge conductors (hots), plus one
8 gauge conductor (neutral), into a 3/4" conduit? Or will I have to
replace the conduit too?

I am very regretful of not doing the right thing and going for max
capacity. When I did it, the only 220V tool I had was a 3 HP
vertical compressor.

Can't answer your question (at least not without looking it up...) but
wonder if you have the electrical capacity in your panel for a 100a sub.

Good question.

I have a 200A panel. The big loads that I may have is a 28A air
conditioner and a 50A kitchen range.

The garage circuit is used for my hobby stuff (compressor, welder),
and, as such, is used very intermittently. As you can guess, the
welder is also going to be used at a low duty cycle, it is not a
production style situation.

That's some data for me to ponder.

i


You could possibly squeeze two 4s and an 8 in 3/4" (39% fill) but if
there are many bends you will have trouble getting them in there.

The bends that I have are all open kind, that is, there is either a 90
degree turn with removable back cover, or a junction box.

That still only gets you 85 amps that you can "round up" to a 90a
breaker. 310.15(B)(6) does not apply to sub panels.
On the other hand, I wouldn't do anything until I had a problem.. I
ran a pretty big shop with a welder and AC on a 60a.

Thanks... Maybe I will just follow your advice. I am not going to weld
bridge sections or oceangoing ships.

i

remember too that 60 amp main is really 120 amps at 120 volts.

just avoid running everything at the same time and you should be fine

On 22 May 2006 08:25:34 -0700, wrote:
remember too that 60 amp main is really 120 amps at 120 volts.

just avoid running everything at the same time and you should be fine


Well, if I run my welder at 200 amps, the 60A breaker trips after a
few seconds (like 10 seconds or so).

i

Ignoramus18798 wrote:

On Mon, 22 May 2006 11:03:11 -0400, wrote:
On Mon, 22 May 2006 13:58:15 GMT, Ignoramus18798
wrote:

On Mon, 22 May 2006 13:51:25 GMT, Toller wrote:

"Ignoramus18798" wrote in message
...
I presently have a 220V subpanel in my garage, the circuit is wired
with 6 gauge wire on a 60A circuit breaker.

This circuit is inside a 3/4" conduit. It is comprised of three 6
gauge wires (two hots and neutral, with conduit being the ground).

I now realize that choosing that low capacity was a mistake. (with a
big welder now in the picture) I would like to know just what would be
involved if I wanted to upgrade to 100A.

Can I be able to squeeze, say, two 4 gauge conductors (hots), plus one
8 gauge conductor (neutral), into a 3/4" conduit? Or will I have to
replace the conduit too?

I am very regretful of not doing the right thing and going for max
capacity. When I did it, the only 220V tool I had was a 3 HP
vertical compressor.

Can't answer your question (at least not without looking it up...) but
wonder if you have the electrical capacity in your panel for a 100a sub.

Good question.

I have a 200A panel. The big loads that I may have is a 28A air
conditioner and a 50A kitchen range.

The garage circuit is used for my hobby stuff (compressor, welder),
and, as such, is used very intermittently. As you can guess, the
welder is also going to be used at a low duty cycle, it is not a
production style situation.

That's some data for me to ponder.

i


You could possibly squeeze two 4s and an 8 in 3/4" (39% fill) but if
there are many bends you will have trouble getting them in there.

The bends that I have are all open kind, that is, there is either a 90
degree turn with removable back cover, or a junction box.

That still only gets you 85 amps that you can "round up" to a 90a
breaker. 310.15(B)(6) does not apply to sub panels.
On the other hand, I wouldn't do anything until I had a problem.. I
ran a pretty big shop with a welder and AC on a 60a.

Thanks... Maybe I will just follow your advice. I am not going to weld
bridge sections or oceangoing ships.

i

If you do upgrade, go to 125A, max allowed for a sub panel. Also note
the portion if the NEC pertaining specifically to electric welders and
Ieff which lets you undersize wire based on the duty cycle of the
welder.

Pete C.

(Just did the 125A upgrade thing myself)

Ignoramus18798 wrote:
On Mon, 22 May 2006 13:51:25 GMT, Toller wrote:
"Ignoramus18798" wrote in message
...
I presently have a 220V subpanel in my garage, the circuit is wired
with 6 gauge wire on a 60A circuit breaker.

This circuit is inside a 3/4" conduit. It is comprised of three 6
gauge wires (two hots and neutral, with conduit being the ground).

I now realize that choosing that low capacity was a mistake. (with a
big welder now in the picture) I would like to know just what would be
involved if I wanted to upgrade to 100A.

Can I be able to squeeze, say, two 4 gauge conductors (hots), plus one
8 gauge conductor (neutral), into a 3/4" conduit? Or will I have to
replace the conduit too?

I am very regretful of not doing the right thing and going for max
capacity. When I did it, the only 220V tool I had was a 3 HP
vertical compressor.

Can't answer your question (at least not without looking it up...) but
wonder if you have the electrical capacity in your panel for a 100a sub.

Good question.

I have a 200A panel. The big loads that I may have is a 28A air
conditioner and a 50A kitchen range.

The garage circuit is used for my hobby stuff (compressor, welder),
and, as such, is used very intermittently. As you can guess, the
welder is also going to be used at a low duty cycle, it is not a
production style situation.

That's some data for me to ponder.

i



I think the 60A you have is probably enough. Put the welder on a 50A
circuit; you can use 10 gauge wire as long as it's dedicated to the
welder (special exemption in the code for low-duty-cycle welders.)

You will seldom run the welder at its maximum current setting. On the
rare occasions that you do, turn off the air compressor -- IIRC from the
pictures you posted, it has a *big* tank you can charge up first if you
need compressed air and the welder at the same time.

Bob

On Mon, 22 May 2006 10:45:17 -0500, zxcvbob wrote:
Ignoramus18798 wrote:
On Mon, 22 May 2006 13:51:25 GMT, Toller wrote:
"Ignoramus18798" wrote in message
...
I presently have a 220V subpanel in my garage, the circuit is wired
with 6 gauge wire on a 60A circuit breaker.

This circuit is inside a 3/4" conduit. It is comprised of three 6
gauge wires (two hots and neutral, with conduit being the ground).

I now realize that choosing that low capacity was a mistake. (with a
big welder now in the picture) I would like to know just what would be
involved if I wanted to upgrade to 100A.

Can I be able to squeeze, say, two 4 gauge conductors (hots), plus one
8 gauge conductor (neutral), into a 3/4" conduit? Or will I have to
replace the conduit too?

I am very regretful of not doing the right thing and going for max
capacity. When I did it, the only 220V tool I had was a 3 HP
vertical compressor.

Can't answer your question (at least not without looking it up...) but
wonder if you have the electrical capacity in your panel for a 100a sub.

Good question.

I have a 200A panel. The big loads that I may have is a 28A air
conditioner and a 50A kitchen range.

The garage circuit is used for my hobby stuff (compressor, welder),
and, as such, is used very intermittently. As you can guess, the
welder is also going to be used at a low duty cycle, it is not a
production style situation.

That's some data for me to ponder.

i



I think the 60A you have is probably enough. Put the welder on a 50A
circuit; you can use 10 gauge wire as long as it's dedicated to the
welder (special exemption in the code for low-duty-cycle welders.)

Mine is actually 100% duty cycle at 200 amps, although I will never
run it anywhere close to 100% of duty cycle for any meaningful period
of time. With stick welding, the longest run time would for one stick,
perhaps 1-2 minutes, then I would need to change the electrode.

With TIG, it should likely be even less.

You will seldom run the welder at its maximum current setting. On the
rare occasions that you do, turn off the air compressor -- IIRC from the
pictures you posted, it has a *big* tank you can charge up first if you
need compressed air and the welder at the same time.

Yes, you are right 100%, I would definitely turn off the compressor if
I had to do big welding. You are also right that high amperages are
rarely necessary. With steel, I never had a need to go above about 150
amps, not that I have a great deal of experience. I never welded
aluminum, but people say that I need higher amoerages for that.

Anyway, do you know what NEC article 630 says about welder circuit
derating? I googled for a while and saw some references to that
article, but no actual tables.

Thanks!


i

Ignoramus18798 wrote:
On Mon, 22 May 2006 10:45:17 -0500, zxcvbob wrote:
Ignoramus18798 wrote:
On Mon, 22 May 2006 13:51:25 GMT, Toller wrote:
"Ignoramus18798" wrote in message
...
I presently have a 220V subpanel in my garage, the circuit is wired
with 6 gauge wire on a 60A circuit breaker.

This circuit is inside a 3/4" conduit. It is comprised of three 6
gauge wires (two hots and neutral, with conduit being the ground).

I now realize that choosing that low capacity was a mistake. (with a
big welder now in the picture) I would like to know just what would be
involved if I wanted to upgrade to 100A.

Can I be able to squeeze, say, two 4 gauge conductors (hots), plus one
8 gauge conductor (neutral), into a 3/4" conduit? Or will I have to
replace the conduit too?

I am very regretful of not doing the right thing and going for max
capacity. When I did it, the only 220V tool I had was a 3 HP
vertical compressor.

Can't answer your question (at least not without looking it up...) but
wonder if you have the electrical capacity in your panel for a 100a sub.
Good question.

I have a 200A panel. The big loads that I may have is a 28A air
conditioner and a 50A kitchen range.

The garage circuit is used for my hobby stuff (compressor, welder),
and, as such, is used very intermittently. As you can guess, the
welder is also going to be used at a low duty cycle, it is not a
production style situation.

That's some data for me to ponder.

i


I think the 60A you have is probably enough. Put the welder on a 50A
circuit; you can use 10 gauge wire as long as it's dedicated to the
welder (special exemption in the code for low-duty-cycle welders.)

Mine is actually 100% duty cycle at 200 amps, although I will never
run it anywhere close to 100% of duty cycle for any meaningful period
of time. With stick welding, the longest run time would for one stick,
perhaps 1-2 minutes, then I would need to change the electrode.

With TIG, it should likely be even less.

You will seldom run the welder at its maximum current setting. On the
rare occasions that you do, turn off the air compressor -- IIRC from the
pictures you posted, it has a *big* tank you can charge up first if you
need compressed air and the welder at the same time.

Yes, you are right 100%, I would definitely turn off the compressor if
I had to do big welding. You are also right that high amperages are
rarely necessary. With steel, I never had a need to go above about 150
amps, not that I have a great deal of experience. I never welded
aluminum, but people say that I need higher amoerages for that.

Anyway, do you know what NEC article 630 says about welder circuit
derating? I googled for a while and saw some references to that
article, but no actual tables.

Thanks!

i

Since your particular welder is rated for 100% duty cycle at high
current, the derating doesn't really apply. Use a 50A breaker and #6
copper wire (or, guessing here, #6 Aluminum SE cable.) If you are
popping the breaker, use a smaller electrode. :-)

BTW, you can use a 70A breaker in the main panel without increasing the
wire sizes if the wire is THHN, THHW, or THWN-2, and the breaker
terminals and the subpanel terminals are all rated 90°C instead of the
usual 75C. That would let you use a 60A breaker for the welder and
still have it trip first instead of tripping the feeder breaker in the
house.

Best regards,
Bob

"Ignoramus18798" wrote in message
...
I presently have a 220V subpanel in my garage, the circuit is wired
with 6 gauge wire on a 60A circuit breaker.

This circuit is inside a 3/4" conduit. It is comprised of three 6
gauge wires (two hots and neutral, with conduit being the ground).

I now realize that choosing that low capacity was a mistake. (with a
big welder now in the picture) I would like to know just what would be
involved if I wanted to upgrade to 100A.

Can I be able to squeeze, say, two 4 gauge conductors (hots), plus one
8 gauge conductor (neutral), into a 3/4" conduit? Or will I have to
replace the conduit too?

I am very regretful of not doing the right thing and going for max
capacity. When I did it, the only 220V tool I had was a 3 HP
vertical compressor.

i


I seem to recall suggesting that you use 1" conduit when you posted
questions regarding the installation of your subpanel.

You can remove everything that you have already installed and put in a 100
amp subpanel circuit or you can run a new circuit just for the welder. The
book says that you can install 2-#4's in 3/4" emt. I think it would be a
tight squeeze with another conductor for a neutral.

Check the label on your main panel to see what is the maximum permitted
circuit breaker as that may influence your decision. The main panel may not
be rated for a 100 amp circuit.

I recommend that you pick up a copy of the National Electrical Code (NFPA
70) and figure out what your options are. You can buy the code book on
Amazon.

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 22 May 2006 13:58:15 GMT, Ignoramus18798
wrote:

On Mon, 22 May 2006 13:51:25 GMT, Toller wrote:

"Ignoramus18798" wrote in message
...
I presently have a 220V subpanel in my garage, the circuit is wired
with 6 gauge wire on a 60A circuit breaker.

This circuit is inside a 3/4" conduit. It is comprised of three 6
gauge wires (two hots and neutral, with conduit being the ground).

I now realize that choosing that low capacity was a mistake. (with a
big welder now in the picture) I would like to know just what would be
involved if I wanted to upgrade to 100A.

Can I be able to squeeze, say, two 4 gauge conductors (hots), plus one
8 gauge conductor (neutral), into a 3/4" conduit? Or will I have to
replace the conduit too?

I am very regretful of not doing the right thing and going for max
capacity. When I did it, the only 220V tool I had was a 3 HP
vertical compressor.

Can't answer your question (at least not without looking it up...) but
wonder if you have the electrical capacity in your panel for a 100a sub.

Good question.

I have a 200A panel. The big loads that I may have is a 28A air
conditioner and a 50A kitchen range.

The garage circuit is used for my hobby stuff (compressor, welder),
and, as such, is used very intermittently. As you can guess, the
welder is also going to be used at a low duty cycle, it is not a
production style situation.

That's some data for me to ponder.

i


You could possibly squeeze two 4s and an 8 in 3/4" (39% fill) but if
there are many bends you will have trouble getting them in there.
That still only gets you 85 amps that you can "round up" to a 90a
breaker. 310.15(B)(6) does not apply to sub panels.
On the other hand, I wouldn't do anything until I had a problem.. I
ran a pretty big shop with a welder and AC on a 60a.

And that assumes the run is not too long or through a very hot area like an
attic in which case you would need to further derate the ampacity of the
conductor.

the 60A circuit is more than enough for all the the hugest of welders. We
ran a detached garage with a 250A welder on a 10ga 30A underground circuit
for 30 years. How big a welder do you have?

--
Steve Barker



"Ignoramus18798" wrote in message
...
I presently have a 220V subpanel in my garage, the circuit is wired
with 6 gauge wire on a 60A circuit breaker.

This circuit is inside a 3/4" conduit. It is comprised of three 6
gauge wires (two hots and neutral, with conduit being the ground).

I now realize that choosing that low capacity was a mistake. (with a
big welder now in the picture) I would like to know just what would be
involved if I wanted to upgrade to 100A.

Can I be able to squeeze, say, two 4 gauge conductors (hots), plus one
8 gauge conductor (neutral), into a 3/4" conduit? Or will I have to
replace the conduit too?

I am very regretful of not doing the right thing and going for max
capacity. When I did it, the only 220V tool I had was a 3 HP
vertical compressor.

i

Steve Barker LT wrote:
the 60A circuit is more than enough for all the the hugest of welders. We
ran a detached garage with a 250A welder on a 10ga 30A underground circuit
for 30 years. How big a welder do you have?



From his descriptions, I'd guess it's a 400A TIG welder. But that
doesn't mean it won't operate just fine on a 50A or 60A circuit; he just
can't crank it up all the way.

Bob

On Mon, 22 May 2006 17:03:58 -0400, John Grabowski wrote:

"Ignoramus18798" wrote in message
...
I presently have a 220V subpanel in my garage, the circuit is wired
with 6 gauge wire on a 60A circuit breaker.

This circuit is inside a 3/4" conduit. It is comprised of three 6
gauge wires (two hots and neutral, with conduit being the ground).

I now realize that choosing that low capacity was a mistake. (with a
big welder now in the picture) I would like to know just what would be
involved if I wanted to upgrade to 100A.

Can I be able to squeeze, say, two 4 gauge conductors (hots), plus one
8 gauge conductor (neutral), into a 3/4" conduit? Or will I have to
replace the conduit too?

I am very regretful of not doing the right thing and going for max
capacity. When I did it, the only 220V tool I had was a 3 HP
vertical compressor.

i


I seem to recall suggesting that you use 1" conduit when you posted
questions regarding the installation of your subpanel.

Your memory is excellent, and I was wrong.

You can remove everything that you have already installed and put in a 100
amp subpanel circuit or you can run a new circuit just for the welder. The
book says that you can install 2-#4's in 3/4" emt. I think it would be a
tight squeeze with another conductor for a neutral.

Got it. Perhaps staying within my current setup is the wisest choice.

Check the label on your main panel to see what is the maximum permitted
circuit breaker as that may influence your decision. The main panel may not
be rated for a 100 amp circuit.

Will do.

I recommend that you pick up a copy of the National Electrical Code (NFPA
70) and figure out what your options are. You can buy the code book on
Amazon.

Thanks John.

i

On Tue, 23 May 2006 00:32:33 GMT, PipeDown wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 22 May 2006 13:58:15 GMT, Ignoramus18798
wrote:

On Mon, 22 May 2006 13:51:25 GMT, Toller wrote:

"Ignoramus18798" wrote in message
...
I presently have a 220V subpanel in my garage, the circuit is wired
with 6 gauge wire on a 60A circuit breaker.

This circuit is inside a 3/4" conduit. It is comprised of three 6
gauge wires (two hots and neutral, with conduit being the ground).

I now realize that choosing that low capacity was a mistake. (with a
big welder now in the picture) I would like to know just what would be
involved if I wanted to upgrade to 100A.

Can I be able to squeeze, say, two 4 gauge conductors (hots), plus one
8 gauge conductor (neutral), into a 3/4" conduit? Or will I have to
replace the conduit too?

I am very regretful of not doing the right thing and going for max
capacity. When I did it, the only 220V tool I had was a 3 HP
vertical compressor.

Can't answer your question (at least not without looking it up...) but
wonder if you have the electrical capacity in your panel for a 100a sub.

Good question.

I have a 200A panel. The big loads that I may have is a 28A air
conditioner and a 50A kitchen range.

The garage circuit is used for my hobby stuff (compressor, welder),
and, as such, is used very intermittently. As you can guess, the
welder is also going to be used at a low duty cycle, it is not a
production style situation.

That's some data for me to ponder.

i


You could possibly squeeze two 4s and an 8 in 3/4" (39% fill) but if
there are many bends you will have trouble getting them in there.
That still only gets you 85 amps that you can "round up" to a 90a
breaker. 310.15(B)(6) does not apply to sub panels.
On the other hand, I wouldn't do anything until I had a problem.. I
ran a pretty big shop with a welder and AC on a 60a.

And that assumes the run is not too long or through a very hot area like an
attic in which case you would need to further derate the ampacity of the
conductor.

The area is all cool, but the run is long. However, all turns are
"open" (go through a corner or junction boxes).

i

On Tue, 23 May 2006 13:01:37 -0400, wrote:
On Tue, 23 May 2006 10:07:57 -0500, zxcvbob
wrote:

Steve Barker LT wrote:
the 60A circuit is more than enough for all the the hugest of welders. We
ran a detached garage with a 250A welder on a 10ga 30A underground circuit
for 30 years. How big a welder do you have?



From his descriptions, I'd guess it's a 400A TIG welder. But that
doesn't mean it won't operate just fine on a 50A or 60A circuit; he just
can't crank it up all the way.

Bob
My trusty old 230a buzz box has been running happily on a 30a circuit
for 40 years at any setting

Your buzzbox probably has lower open circuit voltage and lower welding
voltage.

i

"Ignoramus8797" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 23 May 2006 10:07:57 -0500, zxcvbob wrote:
Steve Barker LT wrote:
the 60A circuit is more than enough for all the the hugest of welders.
We
ran a detached garage with a 250A welder on a 10ga 30A underground
circuit
for 30 years. How big a welder do you have?



From his descriptions, I'd guess it's a 400A TIG welder. But that
doesn't mean it won't operate just fine on a 50A or 60A circuit; he just
can't crank it up all the way.

It is actually 300A. It operates off my phase converter. I think that
one of the issues with it is that it has a bad power factor, also. I
tripped my 60A breaker at 200 amps.

i


What type of phase converter do you have? Is it motor driven? That may be
contributing to your load and causing the breaker to trip.

On Tue, 23 May 2006 18:04:58 -0400, John Grabowski wrote:

What type of phase converter do you have? Is it motor driven? That may be
contributing to your load and causing the breaker to trip.


It is a rotary phase converter, with two idlers, 10 and 7.5 HP. It has
a power factor correction capacitor, which mitigates power factor
issues when it idles (no load).

i

"Ignoramus8797" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 23 May 2006 18:04:58 -0400, John Grabowski
wrote:

What type of phase converter do you have? Is it motor driven? That may
be
contributing to your load and causing the breaker to trip.


It is a rotary phase converter, with two idlers, 10 and 7.5 HP. It has
a power factor correction capacitor, which mitigates power factor
issues when it idles (no load).

i


The phase converter is probably your problem. Those things consume power.
I only suggest the use of them as an absolute last resort. Any chance that
your welder will work off of single phase?

On Wed, 24 May 2006 20:26:36 -0400, John Grabowski wrote:

"Ignoramus8797" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 23 May 2006 18:04:58 -0400, John Grabowski
wrote:

What type of phase converter do you have? Is it motor driven? That may
be
contributing to your load and causing the breaker to trip.


It is a rotary phase converter, with two idlers, 10 and 7.5 HP. It has
a power factor correction capacitor, which mitigates power factor
issues when it idles (no load).

i


The phase converter is probably your problem. Those things consume power.
I only suggest the use of them as an absolute last resort. Any chance that
your welder will work off of single phase?

It is a good question, but, unfortunately, there is no such
chance. Everything inside it is 3 phase, the 3 phase transformer, 3
phase SCR rectifier, SCR firing controller that insists on having 3
phases, etc.

i

"Ignoramus16643" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 24 May 2006 20:26:36 -0400, John Grabowski
wrote:

"Ignoramus8797" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 23 May 2006 18:04:58 -0400, John Grabowski
wrote:

What type of phase converter do you have? Is it motor driven? That
may
be
contributing to your load and causing the breaker to trip.


It is a rotary phase converter, with two idlers, 10 and 7.5 HP. It has
a power factor correction capacitor, which mitigates power factor
issues when it idles (no load).

i


The phase converter is probably your problem. Those things consume
power.
I only suggest the use of them as an absolute last resort. Any chance
that
your welder will work off of single phase?

It is a good question, but, unfortunately, there is no such
chance. Everything inside it is 3 phase, the 3 phase transformer, 3
phase SCR rectifier, SCR firing controller that insists on having 3
phases, etc.

i


Well I guess you can decide if it is cheaper to buy a single phase welder,
or upgrade your subpanel, or install a separate circuit for the welder. If
you decide to install a separate circuit for the welder you should take the
load for the phase converter into consideration. One horsepower equals 746
watts. It sounds to me that if you didn't have the phase converter, you
could probably use the welder on your existing subpanel. The more juice you
need for the welder, the harder the phase converter works and draws more
power. Your electric meter is also spinning more as that phase converter
consumes power.

Another option is to contact the power company to find out if 3 phase power
is available in your neighborhood and get quotes as to the cost to install a
3 phase service.

On Thu, 25 May 2006 06:45:43 -0400, John Grabowski wrote:

"Ignoramus16643" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 24 May 2006 20:26:36 -0400, John Grabowski
wrote:

"Ignoramus8797" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 23 May 2006 18:04:58 -0400, John Grabowski
wrote:

What type of phase converter do you have? Is it motor driven? That
may
be
contributing to your load and causing the breaker to trip.


It is a rotary phase converter, with two idlers, 10 and 7.5 HP. It has
a power factor correction capacitor, which mitigates power factor
issues when it idles (no load).

i


The phase converter is probably your problem. Those things consume
power.
I only suggest the use of them as an absolute last resort. Any chance
that
your welder will work off of single phase?

It is a good question, but, unfortunately, there is no such
chance. Everything inside it is 3 phase, the 3 phase transformer, 3
phase SCR rectifier, SCR firing controller that insists on having 3
phases, etc.

i


Well I guess you can decide if it is cheaper to buy a single phase welder,
or upgrade your subpanel, or install a separate circuit for the welder. If
you decide to install a separate circuit for the welder you should take the
load for the phase converter into consideration. One horsepower equals 746
watts. It sounds to me that if you didn't have the phase converter, you
could probably use the welder on your existing subpanel. The more juice you
need for the welder, the harder the phase converter works and draws more
power. Your electric meter is also spinning more as that phase converter
consumes power.

This welder's main problem is bad power factor. It uses a lot more
current than would a machine with better power factor. Looking at
power, my 60A circuit can produce 14 kW, which ought to be enough for
any welder or cutter. But this thing has a low power factor.

Another option is to contact the power company to find out if 3 phase power
is available in your neighborhood and get quotes as to the cost to install a
3 phase service.

Yes, good point, I can check on that.

igor

"Ignoramus5457" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 25 May 2006 06:45:43 -0400, John Grabowski
wrote:

"Ignoramus16643" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 24 May 2006 20:26:36 -0400, John Grabowski
wrote:

"Ignoramus8797" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 23 May 2006 18:04:58 -0400, John Grabowski
wrote:

What type of phase converter do you have? Is it motor driven?
That
may
be
contributing to your load and causing the breaker to trip.


It is a rotary phase converter, with two idlers, 10 and 7.5 HP. It
has
a power factor correction capacitor, which mitigates power factor
issues when it idles (no load).

i


The phase converter is probably your problem. Those things consume
power.
I only suggest the use of them as an absolute last resort. Any
chance
that
your welder will work off of single phase?

It is a good question, but, unfortunately, there is no such
chance. Everything inside it is 3 phase, the 3 phase transformer, 3
phase SCR rectifier, SCR firing controller that insists on having 3
phases, etc.

i


Well I guess you can decide if it is cheaper to buy a single phase
welder,
or upgrade your subpanel, or install a separate circuit for the welder.
If
you decide to install a separate circuit for the welder you should take
the
load for the phase converter into consideration. One horsepower equals
746
watts. It sounds to me that if you didn't have the phase converter, you
could probably use the welder on your existing subpanel. The more juice
you
need for the welder, the harder the phase converter works and draws more
power. Your electric meter is also spinning more as that phase
converter
consumes power.

This welder's main problem is bad power factor. It uses a lot more
current than would a machine with better power factor. Looking at
power, my 60A circuit can produce 14 kW, which ought to be enough for
any welder or cutter. But this thing has a low power factor.

Another option is to contact the power company to find out if 3 phase
power
is available in your neighborhood and get quotes as to the cost to
install a
3 phase service.

Yes, good point, I can check on that.

igor


Why did you buy this monster? Are you planning to move to a commercial shop
someday? It sounds like it is more trouble than you need for a home shop
welder. My advice is to sell it and get something suitable for your
situation.