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Default Wiring a new light switch

Damn!

Given that many other posters gave the same opinion, I guess I'm toast
unless I upgrade the wiring - and I'm not really keen on doing that....

So I will follow your suggestion and look for a motion detector switch.
If that gets me some $$ refunded as well, then that would be a good
thing too.

As an aside - my ISP recently ditched their news server, and so I've
had to find another means to access usenet. I signed up to Google
Groups a few months back, but have ended up just lurking in my
favourite groups. Until now. So this was my first ever post from my
new account, as well as a first ever to al.home.repair. I have to say
I am mightily impressed with the speed, usefulness and general civility
of the posts I've received. Better than I had any hopes for.

Thanks to all for your replies!

Dave

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Mark Lloyd
 
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Default Wiring a new light switch

On Thu, 18 May 2006 19:05:34 -0400, John McGaw
wrote:

wrote:
Hi all,

Sorry if this is really trivial, or has asked before, but I can't seem
to find an answer.

I just bought a new light switch for the laundry room in the basement.
It is a Leviton brand which has a bunch of buttons to give you a


painful details snipped


What should I be doing?

TIA,

Dave

As other posters indicted, you are probably screwed with that switch and
your existing wiring. You _could_ always replace the 2-conductor romex
between the switch and light with 3-conductor but that isn't trivial for
a beginner and depending on how the walls and ceiling are finished can
be a PITA for anyone.

How about this: take the timer switch back and try to get your money
back. Then buy a "warm moving body detector" switch for about half the
price. The common ones, such a Eagle that some big-box stores carry, can
be wired to work in your situation.


I have one of those in my bathroom, which generally works well. It
will not work properly wilt only compact fluorescent bulbs.

And they work even better in my
experience than a timer since you don't have to touch anything -- you
walk into the room and the light comes on and after you leave it waits
for a pre-determined time and then switches off. Just the thing if you
have your hands full. Best of all, the Eagle probably costs half of what
your Leviton timer cost ($20 vs. $40?)

I've wired my garage bays and some entry switches with the Eagle brand
units from the Borg and they work very well.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin
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Toller
 
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Default Wiring a new light switch


wrote in message
ups.com...
Damn!

Given that many other posters gave the same opinion, I guess I'm toast
unless I upgrade the wiring - and I'm not really keen on doing that....

So I will follow your suggestion and look for a motion detector switch.
If that gets me some $$ refunded as well, then that would be a good
thing too.

The ones I have seen need a neutral for the same reason the timer does.
Maybe some don't.


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John McGaw
 
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Default Wiring a new light switch

Toller wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...
Damn!

Given that many other posters gave the same opinion, I guess I'm toast
unless I upgrade the wiring - and I'm not really keen on doing that....

So I will follow your suggestion and look for a motion detector switch.
If that gets me some $$ refunded as well, then that would be a good
thing too.

The ones I have seen need a neutral for the same reason the timer does.
Maybe some don't.



Well, the Eagle Electric brand for sure does not need the neutral --
I've installed several and none of them had both hot and neutral in the
switch box. Their drawing calls for the black to go to the hot and the
red & brown to be nutted and connected to the load and the green to go
the ground. Works fine every time for me. Who knows, they might be using
the ground lead to provide the little bit of "neutral" current needed --
probably wouldn't meet code but I've not checked it out.

--
John McGaw
[Knoxville, TN, USA]
http://johnmcgaw.com
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Goedjn
 
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Default Wiring a new light switch


Well, the Eagle Electric brand for sure does not need the neutral --
I've installed several and none of them had both hot and neutral in the
switch box. Their drawing calls for the black to go to the hot and the
red & brown to be nutted and connected to the load and the green to go
the ground. Works fine every time for me. Who knows, they might be using
the ground lead to provide the little bit of "neutral" current needed --
probably wouldn't meet code but I've not checked it out.


If they've got any brains at all, they're just trickling the working
current down through the light, and it's just not enough to light it.



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Toller
 
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Default Wiring a new light switch


"Goedjn" wrote in message
...

Well, the Eagle Electric brand for sure does not need the neutral --
I've installed several and none of them had both hot and neutral in the
switch box. Their drawing calls for the black to go to the hot and the
red & brown to be nutted and connected to the load and the green to go
the ground. Works fine every time for me. Who knows, they might be using
the ground lead to provide the little bit of "neutral" current needed --
probably wouldn't meet code but I've not checked it out.


If they've got any brains at all, they're just trickling the working
current down through the light, and it's just not enough to light it.

Okay, why couldn't you do the same with the timer switch?


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Chris Lewis
 
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Default Wiring a new light switch

According to Toller :

"Goedjn" wrote in message
...


Well, the Eagle Electric brand for sure does not need the neutral --
I've installed several and none of them had both hot and neutral in the
switch box. Their drawing calls for the black to go to the hot and the
red & brown to be nutted and connected to the load and the green to go
the ground. Works fine every time for me. Who knows, they might be using
the ground lead to provide the little bit of "neutral" current needed --
probably wouldn't meet code but I've not checked it out.


If they've got any brains at all, they're just trickling the working
current down through the light, and it's just not enough to light it.


Okay, why couldn't you do the same with the timer switch?


No reason. Mind you, it may behave wierd with some loads that aren't
necessarily (mostly) resistive.

Eg: trying to trickle a bit of juice thru a CF bulb might not work at
all.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
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Goedjn
 
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Default Wiring a new light switch

On Fri, 19 May 2006 18:56:46 GMT, "Toller" wrote:


"Goedjn" wrote in message
.. .

Well, the Eagle Electric brand for sure does not need the neutral --
I've installed several and none of them had both hot and neutral in the
switch box. Their drawing calls for the black to go to the hot and the
red & brown to be nutted and connected to the load and the green to go
the ground. Works fine every time for me. Who knows, they might be using
the ground lead to provide the little bit of "neutral" current needed --
probably wouldn't meet code but I've not checked it out.


If they've got any brains at all, they're just trickling the working
current down through the light, and it's just not enough to light it.

Okay, why couldn't you do the same with the timer switch?

Damned if I know. My theory is that the people who built the
timer switch weren't smart enough to think of it.


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Jeff Wisnia
 
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Default Wiring a new light switch

Goedjn wrote:

On Fri, 19 May 2006 18:56:46 GMT, "Toller" wrote:


"Goedjn" wrote in message
. ..

Well, the Eagle Electric brand for sure does not need the neutral --
I've installed several and none of them had both hot and neutral in the
switch box. Their drawing calls for the black to go to the hot and the
red & brown to be nutted and connected to the load and the green to go
the ground. Works fine every time for me. Who knows, they might be using
the ground lead to provide the little bit of "neutral" current needed --
probably wouldn't meet code but I've not checked it out.

If they've got any brains at all, they're just trickling the working
current down through the light, and it's just not enough to light it.


Okay, why couldn't you do the same with the timer switch?


Damned if I know. My theory is that the people who built the
timer switch weren't smart enough to think of it.


Nah. Seems to me the "timers" working current has to be there when the
light is ON, and that's when there should be NO voltage drop between
those two wires to run the timer with. So you couldn't ask for a very
large voltage drop there without having to put up with some significant
power wastage and heating, depending on the size of the bulb load.

Now I suppose you could put a current transformer over the current
carrying lead to the light bulbs and use the voltage developed on its
secondary, after regulation, to run the timer circuit. But that's a long
run for a short slide and transformers ain't cheap parts to make. Then
again, they do use current transformers in all GFCIs, so maybe it's not
such a whacky idea, and if a rustbucket like me could think of it, then
other engineers could easily do the same.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
"Life is like a sewer -- what you get out of it depends on what you put
into it."
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Mark Lloyd
 
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Default Wiring a new light switch

On Fri, 19 May 2006 02:07:29 GMT, "Toller" wrote:


wrote in message
oups.com...
Damn!

Given that many other posters gave the same opinion, I guess I'm toast
unless I upgrade the wiring - and I'm not really keen on doing that....

So I will follow your suggestion and look for a motion detector switch.
If that gets me some $$ refunded as well, then that would be a good
thing too.

The ones I have seen need a neutral for the same reason the timer does.
Maybe some don't.


I have installed several motion-detector switches here, none of them
need a neutral. They have 2 wires (or 3 if it has ground). I want one
that uses a neutral.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin
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Jim Nugent
 
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Default Wiring a new light switch

In ,
Jeff Wisnia wrote:

Nah. Seems to me the "timers" working current has to be there when the
light is ON, and that's when there should be NO voltage drop between
those two wires to run the timer with. So you couldn't ask for a very
large voltage drop there without having to put up with some
significant power wastage and heating, depending on the size of the
bulb load.


The OP's switch may be different, but I have two electronic timer switches
to turn lights on and off automatically at evening and morning. They are
powered by trickle current wither the load is on or off. I think they just
use such a small amount of power that it doesn't cause a significant voltage
drop. I know they use current from the light ckt because if and only if all
connected bulbs burn out, the timer loses its programming.
--
Jim
"Remember, an amateur built the Ark; professionals built the Titanic."


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