I have a large lawn that has some broad-leaf weeds (e.g. dandelions) and
a few spots with thinning grass. At Walmart and Target I see bags of
lawn additives like Weed & Feed and Turf Builder. Will spreading one of
those products result in a more attractive lawn? Do I have to spread
lawn seed too? I live in Western Washington state. Thanks for any
advice. Mike

Try rec.gardens also

On Tue, 09 May 2006 22:27:54 -0700, tenplay wrote:

I have a large lawn that has some broad-leaf weeds (e.g. dandelions) and
a few spots with thinning grass. At Walmart and Target I see bags of
lawn additives like Weed & Feed and Turf Builder. Will spreading one of
those products result in a more attractive lawn? Do I have to spread
lawn seed too? I live in Western Washington state. Thanks for any
advice. Mike

It's hard to diagnose this without seeing it or knowing more. A lot
depends on the type of grass you have. If it's blue grass, it will
spread to fill in spots. If it's a clump type grass, like tall fescue,
the grass clumps will get larger and fill in some what, but it won't
generate new plants as blue grass will.

As far as seeding, I would wait till early Sept, which is optimal time.
It's late for spring seeding now, and fall is by far the best time.
You also don't want to put a weed killing product down when u seed.
Now, you could fertilize and deal with the weeds. If the weeds are
just in spots, a small tank sprayer and Weed B Gone or similar is most
effective. If it's full of weeds and a large area, then Weed n Feed
type product may be best. Once you have most of the weeds under
control, you can switch to spot treating with the tank sprayer, which
is most effective and also minimizes the use of chemicals.

You could also rent a core aerator and use that on the lawn. It will
be a big help in loosening up the soil so the fertilizer can get in and
the grass can spread. I'd also get the soil tested and adjust the PH
with limestone as needed.

All the above is predicated on the grass that is there being worth
saving. If it's a poor grass, or not a uniform type, then you would be
better off killing it all in late summer, then reseeding with a good
quality grass suited for the area.

If the weeds are just in spots, a small tank sprayer and Weed B Gone
or similar is most effective.

Ditto that. I discovered that the hard way, by trial and error, using
the various products.

My lawn is about 2 acres. I treat it with a 1-gallon pump sprayer
using Ortho Weed-B-Gon (2,4,D). I put on a pair of rubber boots and
wander around the lawn zapping every healthy-looking dandelion I see.
You'd be surprised how gratifying this can be, and how little time it
takes to do it. I can wander the whole 2 acres in less than 45
minutes, including stopping to refill the sprayer once or twice. I do
this a couple of times a week during the peak dandelion season. This
season, I would guess I've killed 300 dandelions. The neat thing is,
you can see them withering within 24 hours. Each time you spray, there
are fewer healthy ones. Only spray the healthy ones; don't waste time
and spray on the ones that are starting to wither. Each time you
spray, it takes less time because there are fewer dandelions. Right
now, I'm looking out my front bay window and there are ZERO dandelions
to be seen anywhere.

Another benefit of this is, if you have trees, you don't have to worry
about harming them. If you read the fine print on the big bags of
"weed and feed", you'll see it tells you NOT to use the product within
the drip line of your trees. Weed killer is poisonous to trees as
well as weeds. (It probably won't outright kill an established healthy
tree, but it's not going to help it either). Using the tank sprayer to
make spot applications, I don't worry about the the trees since so
little product is used on a per-square-foot basis.

"tenplay" wrote in message news
I have a large lawn that has some broad-leaf weeds (e.g. dandelions) and
a few spots with thinning grass. At Walmart and Target I see bags of
lawn additives like Weed & Feed and Turf Builder. Will spreading one of
those products result in a more attractive lawn? Do I have to spread
lawn seed too? I live in Western Washington state. Thanks for any
advice. Mike

If you want to seed now, do it right away. If the forecast shows a week of light rain,
that would be an ideal time. Otherwise, arrange for it to get a light sprinkling for
a few seconds a few times a day to prevent the seed from drying out. This will
really make a difference. Sprinkleing a little fine dirt over the seed will help it hold
moisture. Use a seed with perennial grasses rather than annual grasses.

Hold off on the weed&feed until the grass has been cut a few
times. Don't cut until the new grass is a few inches tall. (Cut short before planting)
Once you get the weeds under control, or if you don't have huge numbers, I suggest
a handheld sprayer of weed-b-gon for continuing control. Just walk the lawn once
a month or so, spraying the weeds. A jug of concentrate will last years this way.

The most important fertilizing is supposed to be the fall application. This is also the best
time for re-seeding - just after the fall rains start. You can do it now, and again then
if needed.

If you have a large yard, I recommend a "broadcast" spreader for fertilizer. It's way faster
than a "drop" spreader.

Cut LONG, especially during the summer. This will allow the grass to keep more leaf,
shading the roots to help retain moisture. In this climate, cutting short in the winter may
help avoid disease. Water once a week heavily, rather than lightly every day. This will
help the roots grow deeply for drought resistance.

On Tue, 09 May 2006 22:27:54 -0700, tenplay wrote:

I have a large lawn that has some broad-leaf weeds (e.g. dandelions) and
a few spots with thinning grass. At Walmart and Target I see bags of
lawn additives like Weed & Feed and Turf Builder. Will spreading one of
those products result in a more attractive lawn? Do I have to spread
lawn seed too? I live in Western Washington state. Thanks for any
advice. Mike

Killing the dandilions in favor of a monoculture of grass is evil;
an inherently reprehensible act. You should encourage dandilions
and bluets and violets, and clover, and anything else that wants
to grow in your lawn to do so, as long as it's not pointy.

As for the thining spots, dig one up, and see what's under it.
Shallow dirt over rock? an excess of sand?
Thousands of root-eating grubs? two inches of thatch?

Goedjn writes:
Killing the dandilions in favor of a monoculture of grass is evil;
an inherently reprehensible act.
heh... you'd love my yard. (Working on an english garden look, and
letting "pretty" weeds live when they are not being bad.)

--
May no harm befall you,
flip
Ich habe keine Ahnung was das bedeutet, oder vielleicht doch?
In my email replace SeeEmmYou.EeeDeeYou with CMU.EDU

tenplay wrote:
I have a large lawn that has some broad-leaf weeds (e.g. dandelions)
and a few spots with thinning grass. At Walmart and Target I see
bags of lawn additives like Weed & Feed and Turf Builder. Will
spreading one of those products result in a more attractive lawn? Do
I have to spread lawn seed too? I live in Western Washington state.
Thanks for any advice. Mike

I was just about to tell you that now was a little late for getting
started with this one until I noted the location in WA west of the
mountains.

While I have some knowledge of that area, I don't know the grass
problems that well. However I do know someone close by that can help you.
They are at your local country extension service. They get paid by the
government so they don't try to solve every problem with bags of stuff from
the store. Likely you will want to have your soil tested and go from there.

Personally I find that starting off by making the conditions good for
grass first is the best idea. Then take care of any weeds, the grass will
fill in and take control. One suggestion is that you look for slow release
organic sources of nitrogen when selecting fertilizers. You get a lot of
rain and the organic sources tend to handle that a lot better.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

"Bob" wrote in message

I should also add that in this environment, there is a good chance that the soil
is fairly acidic, and an application of lime may help. If moss is a problem, the lime may
slow its spread also.

Bob

tenplay wrote:
I have a large lawn that has some broad-leaf weeds (e.g. dandelions) and
a few spots with thinning grass. At Walmart and Target I see bags of
lawn additives like Weed & Feed and Turf Builder. Will spreading one of
those products result in a more attractive lawn? Do I have to spread
lawn seed too? I live in Western Washington state. Thanks for any
advice. Mike

I don't know how well weed killers work, but as folks have said, your
best bet for seeding grass in the north of the US is towards fall, so
you've got until then to do some weeding. I managed my dandelions by
pulling them, roots and all, using this gadget I got from Home Depot
called a Hond Dawg or something like that; a standup kind of a
cane-looking thing that plunges a cone of like 10 penny nails in under
the thing and yanks the whole thing up. I was real busy the first year,
since then it's like one weed a day when I see the yellow, despite my
neighbors on three sides apparently being into commercial dandelion
raising. My point being, once you get the existing ones knocked out,
keeping up with the maintenance isn't too tough. (Anything other than
dandelions I ignore, but I don't have many of them. )

As people say, getting thick grass is key to keeping the weeds from
sprouting. And as the other guy said, creeping grasses like creeping
fescues spread underground and do a good job filling in bald patches,
bunching grasses spread above ground and fill in slower. Good if you
have a defined area and don't want the grass to invade your rose garden
or something. So, don't just use any seed, check the contents to see
what the contents are and look up whatever types on the net to make
sure you've got what you need, which is probably a lot of creeping
varieties, sounds like. Fescues also do well in shade, but they're not
happy being walked on a lot, BTW, while grass that tolerate such abuse
won't like shade. If you have the proverbial shady high traffic area,
you might as well look into ground cover because grass won't work
there. Also, mind that a lot of grass mixes sold as quick cover or
contracters' mixes have as high as 90% annual rye grass which is just
what it sounds; it will be dead next spring. Looks good this year,
though.

z wrote:
tenplay wrote:
I have a large lawn that has some broad-leaf weeds (e.g. dandelions) and
a few spots with thinning grass. At Walmart and Target I see bags of
lawn additives like Weed & Feed and Turf Builder. Will spreading one of
those products result in a more attractive lawn? Do I have to spread
lawn seed too? I live in Western Washington state. Thanks for any
advice. Mike

I don't know how well weed killers work, but as folks have said, your
best bet for seeding grass in the north of the US is towards fall, so
you've got until then to do some weeding. I managed my dandelions by
pulling them, roots and all, using this gadget I got from Home Depot
called a Hond Dawg or something like that; a standup kind of a
cane-looking thing that plunges a cone of like 10 penny nails in under
the thing and yanks the whole thing up. I was real busy the first year,
since then it's like one weed a day when I see the yellow, despite my
neighbors on three sides apparently being into commercial dandelion
raising. My point being, once you get the existing ones knocked out,
keeping up with the maintenance isn't too tough. (Anything other than
dandelions I ignore, but I don't have many of them. )

As people say, getting thick grass is key to keeping the weeds from
sprouting. And as the other guy said, creeping grasses like creeping
fescues spread underground and do a good job filling in bald patches,
bunching grasses spread above ground and fill in slower. Good if you
have a defined area and don't want the grass to invade your rose garden
or something. So, don't just use any seed, check the contents to see
what the contents are and look up whatever types on the net to make
sure you've got what you need, which is probably a lot of creeping
varieties, sounds like. Fescues also do well in shade, but they're not
happy being walked on a lot, BTW, while grass that tolerate such abuse
won't like shade.

Tall fescues have excellent wear characteristics, are used for athletic
fields, and are suited for full to moderate sun.

If you have the proverbial shady high traffic area,
you might as well look into ground cover because grass won't work
there. Also, mind that a lot of grass mixes sold as quick cover or
contracters' mixes have as high as 90% annual rye grass which is just
what it sounds; it will be dead next spring. Looks good this year,
though.

Goedjn wrote:
On Tue, 09 May 2006 22:27:54 -0700, tenplay wrote:

I have a large lawn that has some broad-leaf weeds (e.g. dandelions) and
a few spots with thinning grass. At Walmart and Target I see bags of
lawn additives like Weed & Feed and Turf Builder. Will spreading one of
those products result in a more attractive lawn? Do I have to spread
lawn seed too? I live in Western Washington state. Thanks for any
advice. Mike

Killing the dandilions in favor of a monoculture of grass is evil;
an inherently reprehensible act. You should encourage dandilions
and bluets and violets, and clover, and anything else that wants
to grow in your lawn to do so, as long as it's not pointy.

I'm pretty much laissez faire, except for dandelions, just because they
are soooooooooo invasive. Little violets, clover, all fine. They seem
to behave themselves. But dandelions... can we figure out how to run
cars on ethanol from dandelions?


As for the thining spots, dig one up, and see what's under it.
Shallow dirt over rock? an excess of sand?
Thousands of root-eating grubs? two inches of thatch?

wrote:

Tall fescues have excellent wear characteristics, are used for athletic
fields, and are suited for full to moderate sun.

I stand corrected.
What kind of a word is fescue, anyway?

"z" writes:

wrote:

Tall fescues have excellent wear characteristics, are used for athletic
fields, and are suited for full to moderate sun.

I stand corrected.
What kind of a word is fescue, anyway?

Old French, from Latin:

[Macquarie]
Word: fescue
Pron: ['f8skju]
1 n. -
any grass of the genus Festuca, some species of which, esp.
Chewings fescue and creeping red fescue, are cultivated for
pasture or lawns.
2 -
any of several grasses belonging to other related genera, as
Vulpia, rat's-tail fescue.
3 - Obs.
a small stick, twig, etc., used to point out the letters in
teaching children to read.
Etym: [ME festue,
from OF, from L festu$ac312]ca stalk, straw]

Dan Espen wrote:
"z" writes:

wrote:

Tall fescues have excellent wear characteristics, are used for athletic
fields, and are suited for full to moderate sun.

I stand corrected.
What kind of a word is fescue, anyway?

Old French, from Latin:

[Macquarie]
Word: fescue
Pron: ['f8skju]
1 n. -
any grass of the genus Festuca, some species of which, esp.
Chewings fescue and creeping red fescue, are cultivated for
pasture or lawns.
2 -
any of several grasses belonging to other related genera, as
Vulpia, rat's-tail fescue.
3 - Obs.
a small stick, twig, etc., used to point out the letters in
teaching children to read.
Etym: [ME festue,
from OF, from L festu$ac312]ca stalk, straw]

What about the Rolling Stones singing about Emotional Fescue?

I'm pretty much laissez faire, except for dandelions, just because they
are soooooooooo invasive. Little violets, clover, all fine. They seem
to behave themselves. But dandelions... can we figure out how to run
cars on ethanol from dandelions?

Eat them.

"z" wrote in message
.. But dandelions... can we figure out how to run
cars on ethanol from dandelions?


They make dandelion wine, so maybe.

Bob