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James Lewis
 
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Default Tornado shelter/safe room

I live in Tornada alley (N Tx). Every year about this time I start thinking
about having a storm celler/safe room installed. Common sense tells me an
underground celler provides the best shelter, but they are inconvenient to
get into, especially at night. Also, if a really SAFE room is feasable, it
could be used for storing stuff normally put in the garage. Has anyone built
a safe room in an existing home? If so, do you need to bust up your slab and
sink a deeper concrete base or is there a way to sink enough rebar to anchor
the room even if the house goes to Oklahoma?

What wall/ceiling thickness is needed? Where can a door and hardware be
purchased?

mike


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Grumman-581
 
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Default Tornado shelter/safe room

"James Lewis" wrote in message
news:mzk2g.3900$ww6.286@trnddc05...
snip

The safest thing is to go undergound... Other than objects being thrown
straight down on you, you're pretty safe at that point... Most people make
compromises though... Some take an existing large walk-in closet and line it
with CMUs and fill them with concrete... You also have to pour a concrete
roof and tie the CMUs into the foundation of the house... One company that I
saw comes to your house and cuts an opening in your garage underneath where
you park your car... It is about the size of an oil change pit and has a
steel hatchway / door on the top of it... Since you're below ground at that
point, you don't really need 8" of concrete for side protection, so they
probably are either mounting a steel or fiberglass rectangular tank in this
area... Depending upon the size of the vehicle that you park above it, it
might even be possible to enter and exit the area without moving your
vehicle... You vehicle and garage would also give you some protection from
other falling objects in that they might leave enough space with something
on top of them that you can still get out... Of course, you're more likely
to use the room if it is attached to your house and you can get into it
quickly... As in most things in life, this is full of compromises...


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Joseph Meehan
 
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Default Tornado shelter/safe room

James Lewis wrote:
I live in Tornada alley (N Tx). Every year about this time I start
thinking about having a storm celler/safe room installed. Common
sense tells me an underground celler provides the best shelter, but
they are inconvenient to get into, especially at night. Also, if a
really SAFE room is feasable, it could be used for storing stuff
normally put in the garage.


Of course if your "safe room" is full of stuff from the garage, there
will be no room for you when needed.

Has anyone built a safe room in an
existing home? If so, do you need to bust up your slab and sink a
deeper concrete base or is there a way to sink enough rebar to anchor
the room even if the house goes to Oklahoma?

What wall/ceiling thickness is needed? Where can a door and hardware
be purchased?

mike


--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit


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Kyle Boatright
 
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Default Tornado shelter/safe room


"Grumman-581" wrote in message
...
"James Lewis" wrote in message
news:mzk2g.3900$ww6.286@trnddc05...
snip

The safest thing is to go undergound... Other than objects being thrown
straight down on you, you're pretty safe at that point... Most people make
compromises though... Some take an existing large walk-in closet and line
it
with CMUs and fill them with concrete... You also have to pour a concrete
roof and tie the CMUs into the foundation of the house... One company that
I
saw comes to your house and cuts an opening in your garage underneath
where
you park your car... It is about the size of an oil change pit and has a
steel hatchway / door on the top of it... Since you're below ground at
that
point, you don't really need 8" of concrete for side protection, so they
probably are either mounting a steel or fiberglass rectangular tank in
this
area... Depending upon the size of the vehicle that you park above it, it
might even be possible to enter and exit the area without moving your
vehicle... You vehicle and garage would also give you some protection from
other falling objects in that they might leave enough space with something
on top of them that you can still get out... Of course, you're more likely
to use the room if it is attached to your house and you can get into it
quickly... As in most things in life, this is full of compromises...


One thing to consider is egress. If the house falls in on top of your safe
room, that's one thing. If a house falls in on top of your car, which is on
top of the safe room, you'd better hope someone knows where to look for you,
'cause you won't be getting out on your own.








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Posted to alt.home.repair
 
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Default Tornado shelter/safe room


Grumman-581 wrote:
"James Lewis" wrote in message
news:mzk2g.3900$ww6.286@trnddc05...
snip

The safest thing is to go undergound... Other than objects being thrown
straight down on you, you're pretty safe at that point... Most people make
compromises though... Some take an existing large walk-in closet and line it
with CMUs and fill them with concrete... You also have to pour a concrete
roof and tie the CMUs into the foundation of the house... One company that I
saw comes to your house and cuts an opening in your garage underneath where
you park your car... It is about the size of an oil change pit and has a
steel hatchway / door on the top of it... Since you're below ground at that
point, you don't really need 8" of concrete for side protection, so they
probably are either mounting a steel or fiberglass rectangular tank in this
area... Depending upon the size of the vehicle that you park above it, it
might even be possible to enter and exit the area without moving your
vehicle... You vehicle and garage would also give you some protection from
other falling objects in that they might leave enough space with something
on top of them that you can still get out...


This concept of making a safe spot under the car area of a garage
sounds like a very bad idea to me. First, unless there is enough room
to get into it without moving the car, this presents problems. If a
tornado is approaching, to get yourself safe you now have to move the
car outside, which takes time. Have an electric garage door opener?
What if the power is already out and now you have to fool around with
disconnecting the door, etc. The next problem is that while it's
unlikely a tornado will actually hit your house, it is far more likely
that other effects from the storm, ie hail, wind blown debris, etc.
will. And now you have your car sitting outside exposed to that every
time a tornado might be in the area.

Finally, I'm not too keen on the idea of having some kind of trap door
inside a building that leads to a secure pit. After the builiding
falls down, with debris now on top of the opening, how are you supposed
to get out?

The idea of a small shelter seperate from the house, with nothing
nearby to block it, or a shelter underground next to the house with a
basement entrance as well as an outside exit would seem to make a whole
lot more sense.





Of course, you're more likely
to use the room if it is attached to your house and you can get into it
quickly... As in most things in life, this is full of compromises...




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Posted to alt.home.repair
 
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Default Tornado shelter/safe room

there are companies that sell prefab storm and disaster shelters, most
go outside less convenient but safer and cheaper.

in this age of terrorism and possible natural disasters while realizing
the FEDS either dont care or are incapable of helping a storm bomb
saferoom in a area that cant flood, along with having some bottled
water, food, essential medicine, flashlights etc are just smart
thinking. ideally they are like car insurance, there if you need it
while ideally you never use it.

people can live cranky but survive a couple montrhs without food.

3 days without water and you dead

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Pete C.
 
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Default Tornado shelter/safe room

James Lewis wrote:

I live in Tornada alley (N Tx). Every year about this time I start thinking
about having a storm celler/safe room installed. Common sense tells me an
underground celler provides the best shelter, but they are inconvenient to
get into, especially at night. Also, if a really SAFE room is feasable, it
could be used for storing stuff normally put in the garage. Has anyone built
a safe room in an existing home? If so, do you need to bust up your slab and
sink a deeper concrete base or is there a way to sink enough rebar to anchor
the room even if the house goes to Oklahoma?

What wall/ceiling thickness is needed? Where can a door and hardware be
purchased?

mike


Go to the FEMA site and download publication 320 and also the related
CAD files if you have CAD software.

The tornado bunker a.k.a. mini-NORAD is next up on my project list.

Pete C.
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Joseph Meehan
 
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Default Tornado shelter/safe room

James Lewis wrote:
I live in Tornada alley (N Tx). Every year about this time I start
thinking about having a storm celler/safe room installed. Common
sense tells me an underground celler provides the best shelter, but
they are inconvenient to get into, especially at night. Also, if a
really SAFE room is feasable, it could be used for storing stuff
normally put in the garage. Has anyone built a safe room in an
existing home? If so, do you need to bust up your slab and sink a
deeper concrete base or is there a way to sink enough rebar to anchor
the room even if the house goes to Oklahoma?

What wall/ceiling thickness is needed? Where can a door and hardware
be purchased?

mike


Something to think about.

Over the last 50 years there have been an average of 89 tornado deaths per
year.

Average automobile related deaths: 43,200

Tornados did not even make the top ten.

I would think that even for a high risk area, money would be better
spent on automobile safety.

Check the fugues for your state. How many tornado deaths last year and
how many automobile deaths?



--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit


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KLS
 
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Default Tornado shelter/safe room

On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 19:57:13 GMT, "Joseph Meehan"
wrote:

Check the fugues for your state. How many tornado deaths last year and
how many automobile deaths?


I love it: fugues? That's an eggcorn if I've ever seen one.
Wikipedia defines these, and this site collects them:
http://eggcorns.lascribe.net/ I don't know if yours is there, but if
not, why not submit it?
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RobertM
 
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Default Tornado shelter/safe room


"KLS" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 19:57:13 GMT, "Joseph Meehan"
wrote:

Check the fugues for your state. How many tornado deaths last year
and
how many automobile deaths?


I love it: fugues? That's an eggcorn if I've ever seen one.
Wikipedia defines these, and this site collects them:
http://eggcorns.lascribe.net/ I don't know if yours is there, but if
not, why not submit it?


"Fugues" Definition = "typo". It's in my dictionary.

Bob




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KLS
 
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Default Tornado shelter/safe room

On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 17:48:48 -0500, "RobertM"
wrote:

"KLS" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 19:57:13 GMT, "Joseph Meehan"
wrote:

Check the fugues for your state. How many tornado deaths last year
and
how many automobile deaths?


I love it: fugues? That's an eggcorn if I've ever seen one.
Wikipedia defines these, and this site collects them:
http://eggcorns.lascribe.net/ I don't know if yours is there, but if
not, why not submit it?


"Fugues" Definition = "typo". It's in my dictionary.


Can you provide a link? I'm not finding your definition in
www.m-w.com or in www.dictionary.com or in
http://www.ldoceonline.com/.

You clearly didn't read the links I provided. Perhaps the intrinsic
semantic point escapes you.
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Grumman-581
 
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Default Tornado shelter/safe room

"Kyle Boatright" wrote in message
...
One thing to consider is egress. If the house falls in on top of your

safe
room, that's one thing. If a house falls in on top of your car, which is

on
top of the safe room, you'd better hope someone knows where to look for

you,
'cause you won't be getting out on your own.


Keep your cell phone with you? As I said previously, there are compromises
to be made... If you put your safe room in the house and there is massive
damage, you might not be able to get out of it and you might have to wait a
long time before anyone finds you... With 2 of my 3 vehicles, I wouldn't
have a problem getting out of this sort of safe room since they have a bit
more ground clearance... With Graces Jeep Grand Cherokee, it would be a bit
more of a tight fit... Ultimately, you want something that you can get into
as quick as possible... This usually means something inside of your house...
Unfotunately, that's not really an option for some people... Having an
undergound room with a doorway from your house into it would be great, but
not as easy to build as a freestanding building... I saw an ad once for what
basically amounted to steel & concrete coffins that you entered during a
tornado... Big enough for an adult to lie down in... Since most tornados are
over fairly quickly, it probably wouldn't be too bad... If I remember
correctly, it was a side entry instead of a top entry like a true coffin...
I seem to remember that they made it with decorative panels so that it
wouldn't stand out too much in your house... A cushion on the top of it and
it could look like some sort of built-in seating along a window...

Of course, you could just dig yourself a couple of manholes in your yard...
A concrete culvert section to keep the ground from collapsing around you...
Maybe the rim could be raised a couple of inches so that rain doesn't fill
it up...

Personally, I have a small lake / water retention pond behind my house and
there is a large concrete culvert pipe approximately 4-5 ft in diameter that
empties into it... If I saw a tornado coming, I would run for it... The top
of it is perhaps 10 ft below the surrounding terrain and any thrown objects
would only have one direction that they could come from to get in the
culvert...

Oh well... Life is full of compromises...


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joe.henderson1@
 
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Default Tornado shelter/safe room

All,

here's the links from fema on building a "safe room"

http://www.fema.gov/plan/prevent/saferoom/FEMA_320.shtm


http://www.fema.gov/fima/fema361.shtm


Joe..
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Default Tornado shelter/safe room

lets imagine a car on top of a shelter.

in a bad situation debris could hit vehicle and cause a fuel leak.

would you want to be in a enclosed space with gasoline leaking in and
no easy way to get out? fumes might overcome you...

someone menioned cellphones, in a emergency forget them.

the cell providers can and will by the push of a button prohibit all
but emergency workers calls. its programmed in the day you get your
phone. so the system doesnt overload and crash...

plus cell sites depoend on powerlines and if that fails battery backup.
battery power is only good for a hour at most sites.

on landbased phones backups are good for a week, by federal law.

ideally you have a shelter with 2 access points one indoors one
outdoors, and some minimal supplies, water, high calorie long life
food, like MREs meals ready to eat, and basic tools. flashlights,
battreries, radio batter powered.

alowc some extra space, your neighbors will want protection too

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Grumman-581
 
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Default Tornado shelter/safe room

wrote in message
ups.com...
lets imagine a car on top of a shelter.


You can't protect against everything...You have to look at what is likely
given the possible disasters where you are at and what risks you might be
willing to take... I would not have a problem with one of my vehicles on top
of a garage shelter since they are high enough off the ground that I could
still open the door and get out... Around here, we tend to only get F-1 and
F-2 tornados, not like the massive ones up in Tornado Alley... A more
significant concern around here would be flooding from a tropical storm or
huricane... Underground shelters are not necessary the best idea in a
flood... Having your backup generators underground is especially not a good
idea in a flood as many companies learned when the Houston area was hit by
Tropical Storm Alison a few years back...

someone menioned cellphones, in a emergency forget them.


Depends upon the situation... Around here, with the F-1 and F-2 tornados,
damage tends to be rather localized and it's quite possible that a cell
phone might still work...

on landbased phones backups are good for a week, by federal law.


Assuming the lines are still up... Kind of depends upon whether the lines
are on poles or in the ground... In the ground, you might be able to put an
emergency phone in your undergound shelter, but since the NID is located
above ground and since that is where you would tie in the line for your
shelter's phone, it that area gets destroyed, your shelter is without an
emergency phone...

alowc some extra space, your neighbors will want protection too


Let 'em spend their own money for their own shelter... Unless they bring
beer, of course...




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Edwin Pawlowski
 
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Default Tornado shelter/safe room


"Grumman-581" wrote in message
wrote in message
ups.com...
lets imagine a car on top of a shelter.


You can't protect against everything...You have to look at what is likely
given the possible disasters where you are at and what risks you might be
willing to take... I would not have a problem with one of my vehicles on
top
of a garage shelter since they are high enough off the ground that I could
still open the door and get out...


Some companies are promoting a room inside the house. Check out
www.polysteel.com for some information on a concrete walled room.


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