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#1
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Tornado shelter/safe room
I live in Tornada alley (N Tx). Every year about this time I start thinking
about having a storm celler/safe room installed. Common sense tells me an underground celler provides the best shelter, but they are inconvenient to get into, especially at night. Also, if a really SAFE room is feasable, it could be used for storing stuff normally put in the garage. Has anyone built a safe room in an existing home? If so, do you need to bust up your slab and sink a deeper concrete base or is there a way to sink enough rebar to anchor the room even if the house goes to Oklahoma? What wall/ceiling thickness is needed? Where can a door and hardware be purchased? mike |
#2
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Tornado shelter/safe room
"James Lewis" wrote in message
news:mzk2g.3900$ww6.286@trnddc05... snip The safest thing is to go undergound... Other than objects being thrown straight down on you, you're pretty safe at that point... Most people make compromises though... Some take an existing large walk-in closet and line it with CMUs and fill them with concrete... You also have to pour a concrete roof and tie the CMUs into the foundation of the house... One company that I saw comes to your house and cuts an opening in your garage underneath where you park your car... It is about the size of an oil change pit and has a steel hatchway / door on the top of it... Since you're below ground at that point, you don't really need 8" of concrete for side protection, so they probably are either mounting a steel or fiberglass rectangular tank in this area... Depending upon the size of the vehicle that you park above it, it might even be possible to enter and exit the area without moving your vehicle... You vehicle and garage would also give you some protection from other falling objects in that they might leave enough space with something on top of them that you can still get out... Of course, you're more likely to use the room if it is attached to your house and you can get into it quickly... As in most things in life, this is full of compromises... |
#3
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Tornado shelter/safe room
James Lewis wrote:
I live in Tornada alley (N Tx). Every year about this time I start thinking about having a storm celler/safe room installed. Common sense tells me an underground celler provides the best shelter, but they are inconvenient to get into, especially at night. Also, if a really SAFE room is feasable, it could be used for storing stuff normally put in the garage. Of course if your "safe room" is full of stuff from the garage, there will be no room for you when needed. Has anyone built a safe room in an existing home? If so, do you need to bust up your slab and sink a deeper concrete base or is there a way to sink enough rebar to anchor the room even if the house goes to Oklahoma? What wall/ceiling thickness is needed? Where can a door and hardware be purchased? mike -- Joseph Meehan Dia duit |
#4
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Tornado shelter/safe room
"Grumman-581" wrote in message ... "James Lewis" wrote in message news:mzk2g.3900$ww6.286@trnddc05... snip The safest thing is to go undergound... Other than objects being thrown straight down on you, you're pretty safe at that point... Most people make compromises though... Some take an existing large walk-in closet and line it with CMUs and fill them with concrete... You also have to pour a concrete roof and tie the CMUs into the foundation of the house... One company that I saw comes to your house and cuts an opening in your garage underneath where you park your car... It is about the size of an oil change pit and has a steel hatchway / door on the top of it... Since you're below ground at that point, you don't really need 8" of concrete for side protection, so they probably are either mounting a steel or fiberglass rectangular tank in this area... Depending upon the size of the vehicle that you park above it, it might even be possible to enter and exit the area without moving your vehicle... You vehicle and garage would also give you some protection from other falling objects in that they might leave enough space with something on top of them that you can still get out... Of course, you're more likely to use the room if it is attached to your house and you can get into it quickly... As in most things in life, this is full of compromises... One thing to consider is egress. If the house falls in on top of your safe room, that's one thing. If a house falls in on top of your car, which is on top of the safe room, you'd better hope someone knows where to look for you, 'cause you won't be getting out on your own. |
#5
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Tornado shelter/safe room
Grumman-581 wrote: "James Lewis" wrote in message news:mzk2g.3900$ww6.286@trnddc05... snip The safest thing is to go undergound... Other than objects being thrown straight down on you, you're pretty safe at that point... Most people make compromises though... Some take an existing large walk-in closet and line it with CMUs and fill them with concrete... You also have to pour a concrete roof and tie the CMUs into the foundation of the house... One company that I saw comes to your house and cuts an opening in your garage underneath where you park your car... It is about the size of an oil change pit and has a steel hatchway / door on the top of it... Since you're below ground at that point, you don't really need 8" of concrete for side protection, so they probably are either mounting a steel or fiberglass rectangular tank in this area... Depending upon the size of the vehicle that you park above it, it might even be possible to enter and exit the area without moving your vehicle... You vehicle and garage would also give you some protection from other falling objects in that they might leave enough space with something on top of them that you can still get out... This concept of making a safe spot under the car area of a garage sounds like a very bad idea to me. First, unless there is enough room to get into it without moving the car, this presents problems. If a tornado is approaching, to get yourself safe you now have to move the car outside, which takes time. Have an electric garage door opener? What if the power is already out and now you have to fool around with disconnecting the door, etc. The next problem is that while it's unlikely a tornado will actually hit your house, it is far more likely that other effects from the storm, ie hail, wind blown debris, etc. will. And now you have your car sitting outside exposed to that every time a tornado might be in the area. Finally, I'm not too keen on the idea of having some kind of trap door inside a building that leads to a secure pit. After the builiding falls down, with debris now on top of the opening, how are you supposed to get out? The idea of a small shelter seperate from the house, with nothing nearby to block it, or a shelter underground next to the house with a basement entrance as well as an outside exit would seem to make a whole lot more sense. Of course, you're more likely to use the room if it is attached to your house and you can get into it quickly... As in most things in life, this is full of compromises... |
#6
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Tornado shelter/safe room
there are companies that sell prefab storm and disaster shelters, most
go outside less convenient but safer and cheaper. in this age of terrorism and possible natural disasters while realizing the FEDS either dont care or are incapable of helping a storm bomb saferoom in a area that cant flood, along with having some bottled water, food, essential medicine, flashlights etc are just smart thinking. ideally they are like car insurance, there if you need it while ideally you never use it. people can live cranky but survive a couple montrhs without food. 3 days without water and you dead |
#7
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Tornado shelter/safe room
James Lewis wrote:
I live in Tornada alley (N Tx). Every year about this time I start thinking about having a storm celler/safe room installed. Common sense tells me an underground celler provides the best shelter, but they are inconvenient to get into, especially at night. Also, if a really SAFE room is feasable, it could be used for storing stuff normally put in the garage. Has anyone built a safe room in an existing home? If so, do you need to bust up your slab and sink a deeper concrete base or is there a way to sink enough rebar to anchor the room even if the house goes to Oklahoma? What wall/ceiling thickness is needed? Where can a door and hardware be purchased? mike Go to the FEMA site and download publication 320 and also the related CAD files if you have CAD software. The tornado bunker a.k.a. mini-NORAD is next up on my project list. Pete C. |
#8
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Tornado shelter/safe room
James Lewis wrote:
I live in Tornada alley (N Tx). Every year about this time I start thinking about having a storm celler/safe room installed. Common sense tells me an underground celler provides the best shelter, but they are inconvenient to get into, especially at night. Also, if a really SAFE room is feasable, it could be used for storing stuff normally put in the garage. Has anyone built a safe room in an existing home? If so, do you need to bust up your slab and sink a deeper concrete base or is there a way to sink enough rebar to anchor the room even if the house goes to Oklahoma? What wall/ceiling thickness is needed? Where can a door and hardware be purchased? mike Something to think about. Over the last 50 years there have been an average of 89 tornado deaths per year. Average automobile related deaths: 43,200 Tornados did not even make the top ten. I would think that even for a high risk area, money would be better spent on automobile safety. Check the fugues for your state. How many tornado deaths last year and how many automobile deaths? -- Joseph Meehan Dia duit |
#9
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Tornado shelter/safe room
On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 19:57:13 GMT, "Joseph Meehan"
wrote: Check the fugues for your state. How many tornado deaths last year and how many automobile deaths? I love it: fugues? That's an eggcorn if I've ever seen one. Wikipedia defines these, and this site collects them: http://eggcorns.lascribe.net/ I don't know if yours is there, but if not, why not submit it? |
#10
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Tornado shelter/safe room
"KLS" wrote in message ... On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 19:57:13 GMT, "Joseph Meehan" wrote: Check the fugues for your state. How many tornado deaths last year and how many automobile deaths? I love it: fugues? That's an eggcorn if I've ever seen one. Wikipedia defines these, and this site collects them: http://eggcorns.lascribe.net/ I don't know if yours is there, but if not, why not submit it? "Fugues" Definition = "typo". It's in my dictionary. Bob |
#11
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Tornado shelter/safe room
On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 17:48:48 -0500, "RobertM"
wrote: "KLS" wrote in message .. . On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 19:57:13 GMT, "Joseph Meehan" wrote: Check the fugues for your state. How many tornado deaths last year and how many automobile deaths? I love it: fugues? That's an eggcorn if I've ever seen one. Wikipedia defines these, and this site collects them: http://eggcorns.lascribe.net/ I don't know if yours is there, but if not, why not submit it? "Fugues" Definition = "typo". It's in my dictionary. Can you provide a link? I'm not finding your definition in www.m-w.com or in www.dictionary.com or in http://www.ldoceonline.com/. You clearly didn't read the links I provided. Perhaps the intrinsic semantic point escapes you. |
#12
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Tornado shelter/safe room
"Kyle Boatright" wrote in message
... One thing to consider is egress. If the house falls in on top of your safe room, that's one thing. If a house falls in on top of your car, which is on top of the safe room, you'd better hope someone knows where to look for you, 'cause you won't be getting out on your own. Keep your cell phone with you? As I said previously, there are compromises to be made... If you put your safe room in the house and there is massive damage, you might not be able to get out of it and you might have to wait a long time before anyone finds you... With 2 of my 3 vehicles, I wouldn't have a problem getting out of this sort of safe room since they have a bit more ground clearance... With Graces Jeep Grand Cherokee, it would be a bit more of a tight fit... Ultimately, you want something that you can get into as quick as possible... This usually means something inside of your house... Unfotunately, that's not really an option for some people... Having an undergound room with a doorway from your house into it would be great, but not as easy to build as a freestanding building... I saw an ad once for what basically amounted to steel & concrete coffins that you entered during a tornado... Big enough for an adult to lie down in... Since most tornados are over fairly quickly, it probably wouldn't be too bad... If I remember correctly, it was a side entry instead of a top entry like a true coffin... I seem to remember that they made it with decorative panels so that it wouldn't stand out too much in your house... A cushion on the top of it and it could look like some sort of built-in seating along a window... Of course, you could just dig yourself a couple of manholes in your yard... A concrete culvert section to keep the ground from collapsing around you... Maybe the rim could be raised a couple of inches so that rain doesn't fill it up... Personally, I have a small lake / water retention pond behind my house and there is a large concrete culvert pipe approximately 4-5 ft in diameter that empties into it... If I saw a tornado coming, I would run for it... The top of it is perhaps 10 ft below the surrounding terrain and any thrown objects would only have one direction that they could come from to get in the culvert... Oh well... Life is full of compromises... |
#13
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Tornado shelter/safe room
All,
here's the links from fema on building a "safe room" http://www.fema.gov/plan/prevent/saferoom/FEMA_320.shtm http://www.fema.gov/fima/fema361.shtm Joe.. |
#14
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Tornado shelter/safe room
lets imagine a car on top of a shelter.
in a bad situation debris could hit vehicle and cause a fuel leak. would you want to be in a enclosed space with gasoline leaking in and no easy way to get out? fumes might overcome you... someone menioned cellphones, in a emergency forget them. the cell providers can and will by the push of a button prohibit all but emergency workers calls. its programmed in the day you get your phone. so the system doesnt overload and crash... plus cell sites depoend on powerlines and if that fails battery backup. battery power is only good for a hour at most sites. on landbased phones backups are good for a week, by federal law. ideally you have a shelter with 2 access points one indoors one outdoors, and some minimal supplies, water, high calorie long life food, like MREs meals ready to eat, and basic tools. flashlights, battreries, radio batter powered. alowc some extra space, your neighbors will want protection too |
#15
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Tornado shelter/safe room
wrote in message
ups.com... lets imagine a car on top of a shelter. You can't protect against everything...You have to look at what is likely given the possible disasters where you are at and what risks you might be willing to take... I would not have a problem with one of my vehicles on top of a garage shelter since they are high enough off the ground that I could still open the door and get out... Around here, we tend to only get F-1 and F-2 tornados, not like the massive ones up in Tornado Alley... A more significant concern around here would be flooding from a tropical storm or huricane... Underground shelters are not necessary the best idea in a flood... Having your backup generators underground is especially not a good idea in a flood as many companies learned when the Houston area was hit by Tropical Storm Alison a few years back... someone menioned cellphones, in a emergency forget them. Depends upon the situation... Around here, with the F-1 and F-2 tornados, damage tends to be rather localized and it's quite possible that a cell phone might still work... on landbased phones backups are good for a week, by federal law. Assuming the lines are still up... Kind of depends upon whether the lines are on poles or in the ground... In the ground, you might be able to put an emergency phone in your undergound shelter, but since the NID is located above ground and since that is where you would tie in the line for your shelter's phone, it that area gets destroyed, your shelter is without an emergency phone... alowc some extra space, your neighbors will want protection too Let 'em spend their own money for their own shelter... Unless they bring beer, of course... |
#16
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Tornado shelter/safe room
"Grumman-581" wrote in message wrote in message ups.com... lets imagine a car on top of a shelter. You can't protect against everything...You have to look at what is likely given the possible disasters where you are at and what risks you might be willing to take... I would not have a problem with one of my vehicles on top of a garage shelter since they are high enough off the ground that I could still open the door and get out... Some companies are promoting a room inside the house. Check out www.polysteel.com for some information on a concrete walled room. |
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