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Default Tuff-R instead of fiberglass......

Looking at replacing the insulation in the walls of a small office. I
pulled down the (wrecked by glued panelling) drywall, to reveal some
*very* old fiberglass insulation (which is now about 1" thick).

Question is, should I just replace with R13 batts, or can I put rigid
foam (like Tuff-R) in its place. I know the Tuff-R gives a better
R-rating, so should I fill the cavity completely? (2x4, so 3 layers of
1" Tuff-R), or just do 2 layers and leave the rest open?

Also, if I use the Tuff-R, do I need to put up a plastic vapor barrier
before putting the drywall back on? Or would the foil facing serve as
a vapor barrier?

Thanks in advance!
-Chris

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marson
 
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Default Tuff-R instead of fiberglass......

you could use Tuff-R, but it would be labor intensive to install
between studs. also, it would be very difficult to fit around all the
obstacles one encounters, like wires, pipes, etc. it also would be
hard to get a good fit to the studs (though you could fill any gaps
with spray foam. if you really want a good job, use fiberglass, and
then cover the wall with tuff r. tape the seams with red tyveck tape
for your vapor barrier (caulk to floor, etc.)

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Default Tuff-R instead of fiberglass......

I thought about that too, seems like a good enough idea but I wouldnt
know how to get all of the receptacles (easy enough to fix I guess) and
window frames (not so easy to fix) to match up to the wall being an
extra 1/2" thick.

Maybe Im just better off with Kraft faced R13.

-Chris

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marson
 
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Default Tuff-R instead of fiberglass......

yeah, that's true. boxes can be moved or extended, and window jambs
can be extended (often lumberyards will sell a stock molding called
parting stop that measures 1/2" by 3/4" which can be used to extend the
jambs), but that amounts to work too. if you work with a building
inspector, he'll doubtlessly have an opinion.

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Default Tuff-R instead of fiberglass......

I dont mind the extra work, just wondering if the extra insulation
value is *worth* the extra work.

R13 with the vapor barrier already attached seems a lot easier, but I
dont know if Ill kick myself for not having the Tuff-R over it,
figuring Id get another R3 or R4 depending on the thickness.

-Chris



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marson
 
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Default Tuff-R instead of fiberglass......

well if you don't mind the extra work and expense, go for it. i think
you get a better air barrier using tuff r versus poly, and you minimize
thermal bridging (whereby heat is conducted through the studs
themselves).

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Default Tuff-R instead of fiberglass......

One final question - anything wrong with having *2* vapor barriers?

Just got back from HD, and all they have for 2x4 walls was Kraft-faced
batts. Can I put those up and then the foam over it? OC makes an R-15
2x4 batt now, so at least I got a little more than R13. Id like to use
the foam if I can, but not if its bad to have dual vapor barriers
(assuming the Tuff-R acts as a vapor barrier)

Thanks!
-Chris

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marson
 
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Default Tuff-R instead of fiberglass......

two vapor barriers is fine. in fact, if you wind up using the kraft
faced with no foam, then add a 6 mil poly vapor barrier. the kraft
paper is really not considered an adequate air barrier any more (at
least here in MN!).

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Default Tuff-R instead of fiberglass......

Thanks! Didnt know that about the Kraft paper.

But at this point it seems easier to put 1/2" foam on instead of a 6
mil vapor barrier. Less work, looks better (behind the drywall )
and will insulate that much more.

Thanks for the advice!
-Chris

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Default Tuff-R instead of fiberglass......

Oh yeah forgot to ask.....

How sould I fasten the foam in place? Can I just glu eit to the studs?

-Chris



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marson
 
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Default Tuff-R instead of fiberglass......

i would just get "plasticap nails" which they should have at HD. they
are a nail with a plastic washer head. roofing nails would probably
work too. whatever you use is temporary until the drywall goes up
anyway. remember when you put your trim etc back up that you have to
allow for the extra 1/2 of foam so you might need a longer nail glue
is fine, but that seems messy and like more work.

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jgb
 
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Default Tuff-R instead of fiberglass......

If you want to maximize the R-value of the R13 (or any insulation for
that matter) then you should use expanding foam to seal any
penetrations through the exterior wall and/or each cavity. This will
create dead air space in each cavity and allows the insulation to be
most effective. You can use the low expansion stuff.
Check the price of the R15 vs the R13. R15 tends to be very pricey and
if you're going to use Tuff R then I don't think you'll need it. You
can simply increase the thickness of the product. I just would go any
thicker than 1.5" because then you'll have a hard time keeping the
drywall flat.
Any way to attach the foam to the stud temporarily will be fine since
it will be screwed tight once you apply the drywall over it will also
fasten the foam. You could probably nail it but make sure the nail head
doesn't stick out since it will also interfere with the drywall.

Good luck.

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