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LurfysMa
 
Posts: n/a
Default Neutral v Ground?

Can anyone explain to me the electrical terms "neutral", "ground",
"line", and "load"?

I have an Aube TI034 programmable light switch that I want to replace
with an Aube TI035 programmable light switch.

The info for the 034 is he

http://www.aubetech.com/products/pro...=77&noLangue=2

and for the 035, he

http://www.aubetech.com/products/pro...=78&noLangue=2

The reason I want to replace the 034 with the 035 is that the 035 can
handle up to 2400 watts, whereas the 034 can only handle up to 500
watts.

According to the manual, the 034 goes in just like a regular light
switch. I've had it in there for a couple of years and it works
perfectly.

I bought an 035 and the electrician I called to install it said that
he couldn't because, unlike the 034, the 035 required a "neutral" in
addition to the line and the load wires. This is an old house and
there is no neutral in that j-box.

On the web page above, it says that the connection required 3 wires
(line, load, neutral). But the installation manual (pdf file available
on that same web page), has an installation diagram showing only 2
wires: black (line) and white (neutral).

I am confused. Isn't "neutral" the same as "line"? I thought that
"load" is the hot wire, "line" is the return (or neutral) wire, and
'ground" goes to ground.

Can anyone tell me if I can install an 035 where I only have 2 wires?

Thanks

--
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FDR
 
Posts: n/a
Default Neutral v Ground?


"LurfysMa" wrote in message
...
Can anyone explain to me the electrical terms "neutral", "ground",
"line", and "load"?

I have an Aube TI034 programmable light switch that I want to replace
with an Aube TI035 programmable light switch.

The info for the 034 is he

http://www.aubetech.com/products/pro...=77&noLangue=2

and for the 035, he

http://www.aubetech.com/products/pro...=78&noLangue=2

The reason I want to replace the 034 with the 035 is that the 035 can
handle up to 2400 watts, whereas the 034 can only handle up to 500
watts.

According to the manual, the 034 goes in just like a regular light
switch. I've had it in there for a couple of years and it works
perfectly.

I bought an 035 and the electrician I called to install it said that
he couldn't because, unlike the 034, the 035 required a "neutral" in
addition to the line and the load wires. This is an old house and
there is no neutral in that j-box.

On the web page above, it says that the connection required 3 wires
(line, load, neutral). But the installation manual (pdf file available
on that same web page), has an installation diagram showing only 2
wires: black (line) and white (neutral).

I am confused. Isn't "neutral" the same as "line"? I thought that
"load" is the hot wire, "line" is the return (or neutral) wire, and
'ground" goes to ground.

Can anyone tell me if I can install an 035 where I only have 2 wires?

Thanks

--
For email, use


On the 034, the switch draws it's operating power through the light in
series with the neutral. Notic e that the instructions say that if the
display is blank to make sure the bulb works?

On the 035 the switch has it's power come directly from the neutral. Mayeb
this was done to reduce the hassle of losing operation when the load is
disconnected. Or perhaps it's because this unit can be used to operate
motor type loads.

Looks like you are stuck.



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David Martel
 
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Default Neutral v Ground?

Lurf,

So, why couldn't your electrician do this? You have a "line" wire
bringing the electricity to the switch. You have the load wire traveling
from the switch to the lights. You have a neutral returning the electricity
from the light to the ground rod. The ground wire is a second wire
connecting to the ground rod for safety reasons.
If you need a neutral (and a ground) at the switch box and lamp box the
electrician can pull new wire. So, why won't he?

Dave M.


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Pat
 
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Default Neutral v Ground?

Electricity is dangerous, so if you don't understand the circuitry,
don't do it yourself! What you want to do is probably best left to an
electrician.

You have a 2 wire system. Line and load. Line is the "hot" wire.
Load is the "neutral" or "ground". The terminology here can be vague,
so be careful: there is a difference between grounding and grounded.
What you have here would normally be a white wire in modern wiring.
What you are missing is the bare wire, or "copper" wire. The missing
wire is also why you have 2-prong plugs instead of 3 prong plugs for
your electrical outlets.

I like the older terminology better. You have a hot wire and a
"working ground". You are missing the "mechanical ground".

If you are heart-set on that switch, you could have an electrician wire
a mechanical ground for you and install the switch. But your load is
pretty big so it would be much better to have the electrician rewire
the whole circuit. In fact, that switch should probably be on its own
breaker.

Good luck with it.

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PipeDown
 
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Default Neutral v Ground?


"FDR" wrote in message
...

"LurfysMa" wrote in message
...
Can anyone explain to me the electrical terms "neutral", "ground",
"line", and "load"?

I have an Aube TI034 programmable light switch that I want to replace
with an Aube TI035 programmable light switch.

The info for the 034 is he

http://www.aubetech.com/products/pro...=77&noLangue=2

and for the 035, he

http://www.aubetech.com/products/pro...=78&noLangue=2

The reason I want to replace the 034 with the 035 is that the 035 can
handle up to 2400 watts, whereas the 034 can only handle up to 500
watts.

According to the manual, the 034 goes in just like a regular light
switch. I've had it in there for a couple of years and it works
perfectly.

I bought an 035 and the electrician I called to install it said that
he couldn't because, unlike the 034, the 035 required a "neutral" in
addition to the line and the load wires. This is an old house and
there is no neutral in that j-box.

On the web page above, it says that the connection required 3 wires
(line, load, neutral). But the installation manual (pdf file available
on that same web page), has an installation diagram showing only 2
wires: black (line) and white (neutral).

I am confused. Isn't "neutral" the same as "line"? I thought that
"load" is the hot wire, "line" is the return (or neutral) wire, and
'ground" goes to ground.

Can anyone tell me if I can install an 035 where I only have 2 wires?

Thanks

--
For email, use


On the 034, the switch draws it's operating power through the light in
series with the neutral. Notic e that the instructions say that if the
display is blank to make sure the bulb works?

On the 035 the switch has it's power come directly from the neutral.
Mayeb this was done to reduce the hassle of losing operation when the load
is disconnected. Or perhaps it's because this unit can be used to operate
motor type loads.

Looks like you are stuck.




They probably changed it because they had too many returns or support calls
due to just a blown bulb.

It also makes the switch compatible with fluorescent lighting (actually the
real reason to change) particularly CFC bulbs.




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Pop
 
Posts: n/a
Default Neutral v Ground?

"LurfysMa" wrote in message
...
Can anyone explain to me the electrical terms "neutral",
"ground",
"line", and "load"?


HOT: Power coming into the circuit from the electric company.
The HOT wire goes directly back to the circuit breaker in your
box and is almost always black color.
A meter would read 110Vac on it. Or 220,. depending on the
type of power/country, etc.. I'm assuming US since the
colors/terms you give are US terms.

NEUTRAL: This is the "return" path for electricity, back to the
electric company.

HOT and NEUTRAL are necessary for any electrical circuit to work
correctly and safely.

GROUND/EARTH: This is also called EARTH. And that's just what
it is. It's a wire that goes back to the ground via your breaker
box. It literally connects to the ground; the dirt around the
rod driven into the ground outside your electrical service.
While GROUND will function as a NEUTRAL, it is against codes and
UNSAFE to use it for a NEUTRAL. The GROUND is there so that if
anything goes wrong, housings, cabinets, etc., do not become
energized and dangerous to the touch. Or start fires, etc..
The EARTH wire is either green insulated, or more often just a
bare, uninsulated wire.

LOAD: That's the piece of equipment being run with the
electricity. In a circuit with a light bulb, the light bulb is
the LOAD. The HOT probably goes to a switch, then thru the
switch and to one of the bulb's connections (the center one for
an incandescent bulb). The other side of the bulb connection,
the threaded part, has the NEUTRAL connected to it, and completes
the circuit from the LOAD, back to the breaker box.
So, the LOAD is the light, motor, whatever the electicity is
powering.

It would appear that in order to use the 035, you need all three
connections: HOT, NEUTRAL, and EARTH or GROUND.
If the GROUND isn't already there, it would have to be added
in order to use the 035. Because you don't see the GROUND/EARTH
wire, don't assume it's not there. An electrician would be able
to tell quickly, though.

This is NOT a diy job for you, BTW. Either use an exact
replacement, or call in a contractor to do it right.

HTH,
Pop



I have an Aube TI034 programmable light switch that I want to
replace
with an Aube TI035 programmable light switch.

The info for the 034 is he

http://www.aubetech.com/products/pro...=77&noLangue=2

and for the 035, he

http://www.aubetech.com/products/pro...=78&noLangue=2

The reason I want to replace the 034 with the 035 is that the
035 can
handle up to 2400 watts, whereas the 034 can only handle up to
500
watts.

According to the manual, the 034 goes in just like a regular
light
switch. I've had it in there for a couple of years and it works
perfectly.

I bought an 035 and the electrician I called to install it said
that
he couldn't because, unlike the 034, the 035 required a
"neutral" in
addition to the line and the load wires. This is an old house
and
there is no neutral in that j-box.

On the web page above, it says that the connection required 3
wires
(line, load, neutral). But the installation manual (pdf file
available
on that same web page), has an installation diagram showing
only 2
wires: black (line) and white (neutral).

I am confused. Isn't "neutral" the same as "line"? I thought
that
"load" is the hot wire, "line" is the return (or neutral) wire,
and
'ground" goes to ground.

Can anyone tell me if I can install an 035 where I only have 2
wires?

Thanks

--
For email, use



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Posted to alt.home.repair
mm
 
Posts: n/a
Default Neutral v Ground?

On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 09:27:39 -0700, LurfysMa
wrote:

Can anyone explain to me the electrical terms "neutral", "ground",
"line", and "load"?

I have an Aube TI034 programmable light switch that I want to replace
with an Aube TI035 programmable light switch.

The info for the 034 is he

http://www.aubetech.com/products/pro...=77&noLangue=2

and for the 035, he

http://www.aubetech.com/products/pro...=78&noLangue=2

The reason I want to replace the 034 with the 035 is that the 035 can
handle up to 2400 watts, whereas the 034 can only handle up to 500
watts.

According to the manual, the 034 goes in just like a regular light
switch. I've had it in there for a couple of years and it works
perfectly.

I bought an 035 and the electrician I called to install it said that


Did you do this on the phone. Congratualations to both of you, for
being prepared and not wasting the other's time. And to him for
knowing the merchandise that he doesn't even sell probably.

Even if he had to come out, congratulations to him and maybe you for
reading the instructions and looking at the situation before starting.

he couldn't because, unlike the 034, the 035 required a "neutral" in
addition to the line and the load wires. This is an old house and
there is no neutral in that j-box.

On the web page above, it says that the connection required 3 wires
(line, load, neutral). But the installation manual (pdf file available
on that same web page), has an installation diagram showing only 2
wires: black (line) and white (neutral).


That's probably because they didn't bother to update the diagram.
Genereally, the text overrides a diagram (that is, it's more
accurate), but also more complicated often overrides less complicated.
In this case, the text is both. I'm talking about in practice. Of
course they are supposed to have both the text and the diagram right,
but often they aren't.

I am confused. Isn't "neutral" the same as "line"? I thought that
"load" is the hot wire,


The load is the light bulb or whatever. It will be easier if you
think of the line or the hot wire as the wagon, and the load as the
potatoes in the wagon.

"line" is the return (or neutral) wire, and


The line is both the hot and the neutral, but if I'm wrong or
sometimes they use it differently, it's the hot.

'ground" goes to ground.


Bingo.

Can anyone tell me if I can install an 035 where I only have 2 wires?


Do you have BX or Romex? Metal shielded cable or plastic.

Thanks


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Posted to alt.home.repair
Kevin Ricks
 
Posts: n/a
Default Neutral v Ground?


"PipeDown" wrote in message
.net...

"FDR" wrote in message
...

"LurfysMa" wrote in message
...
Can anyone explain to me the electrical terms "neutral", "ground",
"line", and "load"?

I have an Aube TI034 programmable light switch that I want to replace
with an Aube TI035 programmable light switch.

The info for the 034 is he

http://www.aubetech.com/products/pro...=77&noLangue=2

and for the 035, he

http://www.aubetech.com/products/pro...=78&noLangue=2

The reason I want to replace the 034 with the 035 is that the 035 can
handle up to 2400 watts, whereas the 034 can only handle up to 500
watts.

According to the manual, the 034 goes in just like a regular light
switch. I've had it in there for a couple of years and it works
perfectly.

I bought an 035 and the electrician I called to install it said that
he couldn't because, unlike the 034, the 035 required a "neutral" in
addition to the line and the load wires. This is an old house and
there is no neutral in that j-box.

On the web page above, it says that the connection required 3 wires
(line, load, neutral). But the installation manual (pdf file available
on that same web page), has an installation diagram showing only 2
wires: black (line) and white (neutral).

I am confused. Isn't "neutral" the same as "line"? I thought that
"load" is the hot wire, "line" is the return (or neutral) wire, and
'ground" goes to ground.

Can anyone tell me if I can install an 035 where I only have 2 wires?

Thanks

--
For email, use


On the 034, the switch draws it's operating power through the light in
series with the neutral. Notic e that the instructions say that if the
display is blank to make sure the bulb works?

On the 035 the switch has it's power come directly from the neutral.
Mayeb this was done to reduce the hassle of losing operation when the
load is disconnected. Or perhaps it's because this unit can be used to
operate motor type loads.

Looks like you are stuck.




They probably changed it because they had too many returns or support
calls due to just a blown bulb.

It also makes the switch compatible with fluorescent lighting (actually
the real reason to change) particularly CFC bulbs.


So why would it not be compatable with CFC bulbs already?
I have a fixture fed by neon lit 3 way switches which work fine with a CFC
bulbs.
The lighted switches get the neutral by the same principal- through the
unlit bulb.
Kevin





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Bud--
 
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Default Neutral v Ground?

David Martel wrote:
Lurf,

So, why couldn't your electrician do this? You have a "line" wire
bringing the electricity to the switch. You have the load wire traveling
from the switch to the lights. You have a neutral returning the electricity
from the light to the ground rod. The ground wire is a second wire
connecting to the ground rod for safety reasons.
If you need a neutral (and a ground) at the switch box and lamp box the
electrician can pull new wire. So, why won't he?

Dave M.


The switch box might contain only a hot and switched-hot with no neutral
(presumably the case here). Hopefully the electrician looked at the box
and determined this (did not make a diagnosis over the phone). If wired
with cable (Romex, BX) you can't just pull a new wire, and fishing may
be a lot of work/cost.

I hope the post by Pat was meant to be a joke. Pop's description of
terms is good but I would add that in addition to "earthing" the
"ground" wire also provides a low resistance path back to the source to
trip the circuit breaker if a "hot" connects to a grounded device or box.

bud--


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LurfysMa
 
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Default Neutral v Ground?

On Fri, 07 Apr 2006 11:29:13 -0500, Bud--
wrote:

David Martel wrote:
Lurf,

So, why couldn't your electrician do this? You have a "line" wire
bringing the electricity to the switch. You have the load wire traveling
from the switch to the lights. You have a neutral returning the electricity
from the light to the ground rod. The ground wire is a second wire
connecting to the ground rod for safety reasons.
If you need a neutral (and a ground) at the switch box and lamp box the
electrician can pull new wire. So, why won't he?

Dave M.


The switch box might contain only a hot and switched-hot with no neutral
(presumably the case here). Hopefully the electrician looked at the box
and determined this (did not make a diagnosis over the phone). If wired
with cable (Romex, BX) you can't just pull a new wire, and fishing may
be a lot of work/cost.


I think this is correct. The electrician was more than happy to pull a
neutral wire. He just warned me that it would be expensive.


--
For email, use


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LurfysMa
 
Posts: n/a
Default Neutral v Ground?

On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 23:02:15 GMT, "Pop"
wrote:

"LurfysMa" wrote in message
.. .
Can anyone explain to me the electrical terms "neutral",
"ground",
"line", and "load"?


HOT: Power coming into the circuit from the electric company.
The HOT wire goes directly back to the circuit breaker in your
box and is almost always black color.
A meter would read 110Vac on it. Or 220,. depending on the
type of power/country, etc.. I'm assuming US since the
colors/terms you give are US terms.

NEUTRAL: This is the "return" path for electricity, back to the
electric company.

HOT and NEUTRAL are necessary for any electrical circuit to work
correctly and safely.

GROUND/EARTH: This is also called EARTH. And that's just what
it is. It's a wire that goes back to the ground via your breaker
box. It literally connects to the ground; the dirt around the
rod driven into the ground outside your electrical service.
While GROUND will function as a NEUTRAL, it is against codes and
UNSAFE to use it for a NEUTRAL. The GROUND is there so that if
anything goes wrong, housings, cabinets, etc., do not become
energized and dangerous to the touch. Or start fires, etc..
The EARTH wire is either green insulated, or more often just a
bare, uninsulated wire.

LOAD: That's the piece of equipment being run with the
electricity. In a circuit with a light bulb, the light bulb is
the LOAD. The HOT probably goes to a switch, then thru the
switch and to one of the bulb's connections (the center one for
an incandescent bulb). The other side of the bulb connection,
the threaded part, has the NEUTRAL connected to it, and completes
the circuit from the LOAD, back to the breaker box.
So, the LOAD is the light, motor, whatever the electicity is
powering.


Ok, I think I get it.

LINE = the wire from the circuit box. The hot wire.

NEUTRAL = the wire back to the circuit box to complete the circuit.

LOAD = the wire from the switch to the light bulb fixture (the load).

GROUND = a wire to the earth or some very large electricity sink.

So, in a standard toggle switch for a light:

1. The line wire goes from the circuit box to the switch.
2. The load wire geos from the switch to the light fixture.
3. The neutral wire goes from the light fixture back to the circuit
box completing the circuit.

Since a standard toggle switch does not need any power to work, it is
wired in series with the light.

These programmable switches need power for their own operation. They
have two choices. I am ignoring the ground wire. Both of these
scenarios probably need a ground for safety, but not for the basic
operation.

1. They can place their own "load" in series with the light. This is
the simplist installation. It only required 2 wires -- line and load.
But it has the disadvantage that if the light burns out, the circuit
is broken and the switch loses power, which means it can't keep time,
for instance. This is how the 034 works. This is also why the 034 can
be used as a replacement for any standard toggle switch.

2. They can place their own load in parallel with the light. This
required one more wire in the junction box -- the neutral to have a
way to keep current flowing through the switch itself even if the
light bulb burns out or is replaced. This is how the 035 works and it
why it cannot just replace a standard toggle switch.

Is that correct?

It would appear that in order to use the 035, you need all three
connections: HOT, NEUTRAL, and EARTH or GROUND.
If the GROUND isn't already there, it would have to be added
in order to use the 035. Because you don't see the GROUND/EARTH
wire, don't assume it's not there. An electrician would be able
to tell quickly, though.

This is NOT a diy job for you, BTW. Either use an exact
replacement, or call in a contractor to do it right.


I don't plan to do this myself. I just wanted to understand it.

Thanks for the help.

--
For email, use
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Posted to alt.home.repair
Pop
 
Posts: n/a
Default Neutral v Ground?


Sounds like you have a pretty good handle on it.

Pop


"LurfysMa" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 23:02:15 GMT, "Pop"

wrote:

"LurfysMa" wrote in message
. ..
Can anyone explain to me the electrical terms "neutral",
"ground",
"line", and "load"?


HOT: Power coming into the circuit from the electric company.
The HOT wire goes directly back to the circuit breaker in your
box and is almost always black color.
A meter would read 110Vac on it. Or 220,. depending on the
type of power/country, etc.. I'm assuming US since the
colors/terms you give are US terms.

NEUTRAL: This is the "return" path for electricity, back to
the
electric company.

HOT and NEUTRAL are necessary for any electrical circuit to
work
correctly and safely.

GROUND/EARTH: This is also called EARTH. And that's just what
it is. It's a wire that goes back to the ground via your
breaker
box. It literally connects to the ground; the dirt around the
rod driven into the ground outside your electrical service.
While GROUND will function as a NEUTRAL, it is against codes
and
UNSAFE to use it for a NEUTRAL. The GROUND is there so that
if
anything goes wrong, housings, cabinets, etc., do not become
energized and dangerous to the touch. Or start fires, etc..
The EARTH wire is either green insulated, or more often just
a
bare, uninsulated wire.

LOAD: That's the piece of equipment being run with the
electricity. In a circuit with a light bulb, the light bulb is
the LOAD. The HOT probably goes to a switch, then thru the
switch and to one of the bulb's connections (the center one for
an incandescent bulb). The other side of the bulb connection,
the threaded part, has the NEUTRAL connected to it, and
completes
the circuit from the LOAD, back to the breaker box.
So, the LOAD is the light, motor, whatever the electicity is
powering.


Ok, I think I get it.

LINE = the wire from the circuit box. The hot wire.

NEUTRAL = the wire back to the circuit box to complete the
circuit.

LOAD = the wire from the switch to the light bulb fixture (the
load).

GROUND = a wire to the earth or some very large electricity
sink.

So, in a standard toggle switch for a light:

1. The line wire goes from the circuit box to the switch.
2. The load wire geos from the switch to the light fixture.
3. The neutral wire goes from the light fixture back to the
circuit
box completing the circuit.

Since a standard toggle switch does not need any power to work,
it is
wired in series with the light.

These programmable switches need power for their own operation.
They
have two choices. I am ignoring the ground wire. Both of these
scenarios probably need a ground for safety, but not for the
basic
operation.

1. They can place their own "load" in series with the light.
This is
the simplist installation. It only required 2 wires -- line and
load.
But it has the disadvantage that if the light burns out, the
circuit
is broken and the switch loses power, which means it can't keep
time,
for instance. This is how the 034 works. This is also why the
034 can
be used as a replacement for any standard toggle switch.

2. They can place their own load in parallel with the light.
This
required one more wire in the junction box -- the neutral to
have a
way to keep current flowing through the switch itself even if
the
light bulb burns out or is replaced. This is how the 035 works
and it
why it cannot just replace a standard toggle switch.

Is that correct?

It would appear that in order to use the 035, you need all
three
connections: HOT, NEUTRAL, and EARTH or GROUND.
If the GROUND isn't already there, it would have to be added
in order to use the 035. Because you don't see the
GROUND/EARTH
wire, don't assume it's not there. An electrician would be
able
to tell quickly, though.

This is NOT a diy job for you, BTW. Either use an exact
replacement, or call in a contractor to do it right.


I don't plan to do this myself. I just wanted to understand it.

Thanks for the help.

--
For email, use



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Posted to alt.home.repair
Kevin Ricks
 
Posts: n/a
Default Neutral v Ground?


"LurfysMa" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 23:02:15 GMT, "Pop"
wrote:

"LurfysMa" wrote in message
. ..
Can anyone explain to me the electrical terms "neutral",
"ground",
"line", and "load"?


HOT: Power coming into the circuit from the electric company.
The HOT wire goes directly back to the circuit breaker in your
box and is almost always black color.
A meter would read 110Vac on it. Or 220,. depending on the
type of power/country, etc.. I'm assuming US since the
colors/terms you give are US terms.

NEUTRAL: This is the "return" path for electricity, back to the
electric company.

HOT and NEUTRAL are necessary for any electrical circuit to work
correctly and safely.

GROUND/EARTH: This is also called EARTH. And that's just what
it is. It's a wire that goes back to the ground via your breaker
box. It literally connects to the ground; the dirt around the
rod driven into the ground outside your electrical service.
While GROUND will function as a NEUTRAL, it is against codes and
UNSAFE to use it for a NEUTRAL. The GROUND is there so that if
anything goes wrong, housings, cabinets, etc., do not become
energized and dangerous to the touch. Or start fires, etc..
The EARTH wire is either green insulated, or more often just a
bare, uninsulated wire.

LOAD: That's the piece of equipment being run with the
electricity. In a circuit with a light bulb, the light bulb is
the LOAD. The HOT probably goes to a switch, then thru the
switch and to one of the bulb's connections (the center one for
an incandescent bulb). The other side of the bulb connection,
the threaded part, has the NEUTRAL connected to it, and completes
the circuit from the LOAD, back to the breaker box.
So, the LOAD is the light, motor, whatever the electicity is
powering.


Ok, I think I get it.

LINE = the wire from the circuit box. The hot wire.

NEUTRAL = the wire back to the circuit box to complete the circuit.

LOAD = the wire from the switch to the light bulb fixture (the load).

GROUND = a wire to the earth or some very large electricity sink.

So, in a standard toggle switch for a light:

1. The line wire goes from the circuit box to the switch.
2. The load wire geos from the switch to the light fixture.
3. The neutral wire goes from the light fixture back to the circuit
box completing the circuit.

Since a standard toggle switch does not need any power to work, it is
wired in series with the light.

These programmable switches need power for their own operation. They
have two choices. I am ignoring the ground wire. Both of these
scenarios probably need a ground for safety, but not for the basic
operation.


Some programmable switches/Timers have a battery to keep the clock and don't
need a dedicated neutral.

http://www.intermatic.com/?action=subcat&sid=112

Kevin




1. They can place their own "load" in series with the light. This is
the simplist installation. It only required 2 wires -- line and load.
But it has the disadvantage that if the light burns out, the circuit
is broken and the switch loses power, which means it can't keep time,
for instance. This is how the 034 works. This is also why the 034 can
be used as a replacement for any standard toggle switch.

2. They can place their own load in parallel with the light. This
required one more wire in the junction box -- the neutral to have a
way to keep current flowing through the switch itself even if the
light bulb burns out or is replaced. This is how the 035 works and it
why it cannot just replace a standard toggle switch.

Is that correct?

It would appear that in order to use the 035, you need all three
connections: HOT, NEUTRAL, and EARTH or GROUND.
If the GROUND isn't already there, it would have to be added
in order to use the 035. Because you don't see the GROUND/EARTH
wire, don't assume it's not there. An electrician would be able
to tell quickly, though.

This is NOT a diy job for you, BTW. Either use an exact
replacement, or call in a contractor to do it right.


I don't plan to do this myself. I just wanted to understand it.

Thanks for the help.

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LurfysMa
 
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Default Neutral v Ground?

On Sat, 08 Apr 2006 12:15:18 GMT, "Pop"
wrote:


Sounds like you have a pretty good handle on it.

Pop


Thanks for the help.

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Posted to alt.home.repair
LurfysMa
 
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Default Neutral v Ground?

On Sat, 08 Apr 2006 12:45:49 GMT, "Kevin Ricks"
wrote:

So, in a standard toggle switch for a light:

1. The line wire goes from the circuit box to the switch.
2. The load wire geos from the switch to the light fixture.
3. The neutral wire goes from the light fixture back to the circuit
box completing the circuit.

Since a standard toggle switch does not need any power to work, it is
wired in series with the light.

These programmable switches need power for their own operation. They
have two choices. I am ignoring the ground wire. Both of these
scenarios probably need a ground for safety, but not for the basic
operation.


Some programmable switches/Timers have a battery to keep the clock and don't
need a dedicated neutral.

http://www.intermatic.com/?action=subcat&sid=112


Thanks for that link. I had Intermatic timers some time ago, but (a)
they did not have the sunset/sunrise feature and (b) they tended to
fail too often.

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