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baseboards bled, but still no heat.



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 6th 05, 12:00 AM posted to alt.home.repair
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Default baseboards bled, but still no heat.

Ok guys I've been googling up the wazoo today to try to figure this out.

I have a two zone system, upper and lower. Gas furnace, one pump(Grundfos
Type UP 15-42F), two valves(Honeywell V8048E), and baseboards.

here she is: http://www.diezfamily.us/images/bs/AUT_2702.JPG

I thought I had frozen lines but when I bleed the zones water flows just
fine. So I followed the procedures to purge each zone and started the
system back up.

Well, I still only have heat to PART of the upstairs zone and no heat
downstairs. I'm at a loss what to try next. The thermostats are working,
the solenoids/valves are working, the aquastat is working, all manual valves
are open, PSI is good(15). I can feel the pipes are nice and hot coming out
of the furnace but they go into the concrete so it's hard to trace.

Actually, downstairs there is a little in a baseboard about 4 feet from the
furnace, but that's it. And, to make things even more fun.. the first floor
pipes are in the concrete floor so I can't get to them or trace their exact
route! grrrrrrr. I think this one warm baseboard is the first unit off the
furnace..

Can it be my pump is dying and can't get the whole system flowing? The
thing is so quiet I can't tell if it's on or off.. It's a Grundfos Type UP
15-42F, by the way.

What else can I try???

Thanks,

T-- (thank God for gas fireplaces!)

Please reply to group.. I'm trying to remain spam-free.



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  #2  
Old December 6th 05, 12:55 AM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: n/a
Default baseboards bled, but still no heat.


Diezmon wrote:

What else can I try???

Thanks,



How do you know the thermostats are working, you say you can't tell if
it's off or on, (since it runs so quiet)

You claim partial heat upstairs, could it be full heat upstairs? and
you are missing the downstairs heat rising?

I saw the picture, what a beast!

my 2cents

  #3  
Old December 6th 05, 01:15 AM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: n/a
Default baseboards bled, but still no heat.

If you are sure that the zone valves are opening, check that you have 120
volts at the pump, if so and the problem isn't air in the line, it's
possible that the pump is jammed internally or just dead



"Diezmon" wrote in message
...
Ok guys I've been googling up the wazoo today to try to figure this out.

I have a two zone system, upper and lower. Gas furnace, one pump(Grundfos
Type UP 15-42F), two valves(Honeywell V8048E), and baseboards.

here she is: http://www.diezfamily.us/images/bs/AUT_2702.JPG

I thought I had frozen lines but when I bleed the zones water flows just
fine. So I followed the procedures to purge each zone and started the
system back up.

Well, I still only have heat to PART of the upstairs zone and no heat
downstairs. I'm at a loss what to try next. The thermostats are working,
the solenoids/valves are working, the aquastat is working, all manual
valves
are open, PSI is good(15). I can feel the pipes are nice and hot coming
out
of the furnace but they go into the concrete so it's hard to trace.

Actually, downstairs there is a little in a baseboard about 4 feet from
the
furnace, but that's it. And, to make things even more fun.. the first
floor
pipes are in the concrete floor so I can't get to them or trace their
exact
route! grrrrrrr. I think this one warm baseboard is the first unit off
the
furnace..

Can it be my pump is dying and can't get the whole system flowing? The
thing is so quiet I can't tell if it's on or off.. It's a Grundfos Type
UP
15-42F, by the way.

What else can I try???

Thanks,

T-- (thank God for gas fireplaces!)

Please reply to group.. I'm trying to remain spam-free.





  #4  
Old December 6th 05, 01:25 AM posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default baseboards bled, but still no heat.

I know the thermostats are working because they properly turn on the system.
I've checked and double checked everything with the voltmeter as well.

Can it be my pump is dying and can't get the whole system flowing? The
thing is so quiet I can't tell if it's on or off..


I couldn't tell if the pump was working, or that's what I meant by the
'thing'

no full heat upstairs.. It's hard to explain but each zone has two physical
loops. The upstairs: About 3 feet from the furnace it splits at a T to
these two loops to the upstairs. Then, they return to another T on the
return loop, just before the furnace. One loop heats up perfectly, the
other loop stays cool even though both are fully open... very weird. I
_think_ I eliminated the possibility of blockage, since when purging the
water flows freely.

In the pic you can see the two loops for the downstairs(the taller two going
into the concrete), and the return T just before returning to the furnace.

The downstairs baseboards, also a single zone with two physical loops, stays
cold. But, those two pipes coming out of the furnace, into the floor, are
HOT.

A beast? I was thinking it was pretty simple.. which is why I can't for the
life of me, figure out the problem!

Tim


"wannabe" wrote in message
oups.com...

Diezmon wrote:

What else can I try???

Thanks,



How do you know the thermostats are working, you say you can't tell if
it's off or on, (since it runs so quiet)

You claim partial heat upstairs, could it be full heat upstairs? and
you are missing the downstairs heat rising?

I saw the picture, what a beast!

my 2cents



  #5  
Old December 6th 05, 01:28 AM posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default baseboards bled, but still no heat.

Yep, got 120 at the pump. My guestimate is that it IS the pump.. but how to
find out?

Since the one loop always works fine, it's confusing the sh*t out of me
The one loop that does work is located fairly vertically above the furnace,
so I was wondering if it's just the heat rising up and through.. BUT the
return is nice and hot too..

Tim


"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote in message
...
If you are sure that the zone valves are opening, check that you have 120
volts at the pump, if so and the problem isn't air in the line, it's
possible that the pump is jammed internally or just dead



"Diezmon" wrote in message
...
Ok guys I've been googling up the wazoo today to try to figure this out.

I have a two zone system, upper and lower. Gas furnace, one

pump(Grundfos
Type UP 15-42F), two valves(Honeywell V8048E), and baseboards.

here she is: http://www.diezfamily.us/images/bs/AUT_2702.JPG

I thought I had frozen lines but when I bleed the zones water flows just
fine. So I followed the procedures to purge each zone and started the
system back up.

Well, I still only have heat to PART of the upstairs zone and no heat
downstairs. I'm at a loss what to try next. The thermostats are

working,
the solenoids/valves are working, the aquastat is working, all manual
valves
are open, PSI is good(15). I can feel the pipes are nice and hot coming
out
of the furnace but they go into the concrete so it's hard to trace.

Actually, downstairs there is a little in a baseboard about 4 feet from
the
furnace, but that's it. And, to make things even more fun.. the first
floor
pipes are in the concrete floor so I can't get to them or trace their
exact
route! grrrrrrr. I think this one warm baseboard is the first unit off
the
furnace..

Can it be my pump is dying and can't get the whole system flowing? The
thing is so quiet I can't tell if it's on or off.. It's a Grundfos

Type
UP
15-42F, by the way.

What else can I try???

Thanks,

T-- (thank God for gas fireplaces!)

Please reply to group.. I'm trying to remain spam-free.







  #6  
Old December 6th 05, 01:29 AM posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default baseboards bled, but still no heat.


"Diezmon" wrote in message
...
Ok guys I've been googling up the wazoo today to try to figure this out.

I have a two zone system, upper and lower. Gas furnace, one pump(Grundfos
Type UP 15-42F), two valves(Honeywell V8048E), and baseboards.

here she is: http://www.diezfamily.us/images/bs/AUT_2702.JPG

I thought I had frozen lines but when I bleed the zones water flows just
fine. So I followed the procedures to purge each zone and started the
system back up.

Well, I still only have heat to PART of the upstairs zone and no heat
downstairs. I'm at a loss what to try next. The thermostats are working,
the solenoids/valves are working, the aquastat is working, all manual
valves
are open, PSI is good(15). I can feel the pipes are nice and hot coming
out
of the furnace but they go into the concrete so it's hard to trace.

Actually, downstairs there is a little in a baseboard about 4 feet from
the
furnace, but that's it. And, to make things even more fun.. the first
floor
pipes are in the concrete floor so I can't get to them or trace their
exact
route! grrrrrrr. I think this one warm baseboard is the first unit off
the
furnace..

Can it be my pump is dying and can't get the whole system flowing? The
thing is so quiet I can't tell if it's on or off.. It's a Grundfos Type
UP
15-42F, by the way.

What else can I try???

Thanks,

T-- (thank God for gas fireplaces!)

Please reply to group.. I'm trying to remain spam-free.




With the solenoid valves open manually the pump may still not be called upon
to start. You may only be feeling heat due to gravity fed convection of
water in the pipes. With both valves open, the pump may not have the
capacity to serve both zones, try closing one valve. Turn the thremostat up
or down to see if you can hear a relay click in the heater or a difference
in the pump noise or vibration.

Sure sounds like the pump is not doing the job. You can check to see if AC
is sent to it and you should still be able to tell if it is running by feel
or by peeking in a vent hole in its case.

Often the pump motor is connected to the pump impeller by a spring and arm
mechanism. It absorbs startup shock when the motor kicks in but if the
springs break, the motor will spin but the pump will be still.

The pump motor and pump (impeller) itself should be considered seperately
when troubleshooting because either can fail independent of the other even
though they look like one unit.


  #7  
Old December 6th 05, 01:55 AM posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default baseboards bled, but still no heat.


Are you sure you know how to bleed the system PROPERLY? An air pocket

could
account for one zone working fine and another one being cold.


Well, when I bled each zone, closing its shutoff valve and opening the purge
valve, the water coming out was solid and flowing. I let it run for a
while, and then bled them again. And yes, I had the supply running.

Tim


  #8  
Old December 6th 05, 03:06 AM posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default baseboards bled, but still no heat.


"PipeDown" wrote in message


Sure sounds like the pump is not doing the job. You can check to see if
AC is sent to it and you should still be able to tell if it is running by
feel or by peeking in a vent hole in its case.


The pump motor and pump (impeller) itself should be considered seperately
when troubleshooting because either can fail independent of the other even
though they look like one unit.


This sounds like the most logical explanation. Especially if it has been
sitting inactive over the summer things like that tend to pop up at startup
time.

BTW, you don't have a furnace, you have a boiler. Furnaces heat air,
boilers heat water. Using the wrong terminology will get nothing but
disrespect if you go to the plumbing supply house for a part.


  #9  
Old December 6th 05, 03:22 AM posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default baseboards bled, but still no heat.


BTW, you don't have a furnace, you have a boiler. Furnaces heat air,
boilers heat water. Using the wrong terminology will get nothing but
disrespect if you go to the plumbing supply house for a part.


Thanks for the tip




  #10  
Old December 6th 05, 03:37 AM posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default baseboards bled, but still no heat.

yep, I sure did.


"Commodore Joe Redcloud" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 06 Dec 2005 01:55:42 GMT, "Diezmon"
wrote:


Are you sure you know how to bleed the system PROPERLY? An air pocket

could
account for one zone working fine and another one being cold.


Well, when I bled each zone, closing its shutoff valve and opening the

purge
valve, the water coming out was solid and flowing. I let it run for a
while, and then bled them again. And yes, I had the supply running.

Tim


Did you start at the highest and furthest from the boiler and work your

way
back? It makes a difference.


Commodore Joe Redcloud



 




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