My roof right now are concrete roof tiles. After hurricane Wilma about
20 tiles broke, cracked and missing. The rest seem to be in good
shape. However, many of them have been "shifted" from their original
position. They were originally all mortared in (a thick blob of mortar
between the tile and the tar paper underneath).

Location is Miami, Florida. We don't have snow and freeze/thaw. I
have seen posts that suggested the proper method to attach concrete
roof tiles is to nail them. I also heard that screwing them is the
best. Then I called two local contractors who then said to me "are you
crazy? That's what they did out in Weston, nailed every tile to the
roof and now nothing but leaks, you can't believe what they are going
through". One other contractor told me I was "nuts" to try to reattach
all my tiles back on, that it will be more expensive (laborwise) than
replacing new tiles on my entire roof. He suggested that he just
inject RG45 (?) to a couple of spots and the tiles should stay on their
own by their weight and their interlocking edges. I said what if the
next hurricane comes? He said well this is a one in a 50 year thing so
that's unlikely...

So I am confused whether I should spot fix only what's broken, reattach
all loose tiles, or replace my roof. Is the nailing method the proper
method but their bad experience is due to poor workmanship and inproper
installation? or is it not desirable in south florida?

MC

"MiamiCuse" wrote in message
oups.com...
My roof right now are concrete roof tiles. After hurricane Wilma about
20 tiles broke, cracked and missing. The rest seem to be in good
shape. However, many of them have been "shifted" from their original
position. They were originally all mortared in (a thick blob of mortar
between the tile and the tar paper underneath).

Location is Miami, Florida. We don't have snow and freeze/thaw. I
have seen posts that suggested the proper method to attach concrete
roof tiles is to nail them. I also heard that screwing them is the
best. Then I called two local contractors who then said to me "are you
crazy? That's what they did out in Weston, nailed every tile to the
roof and now nothing but leaks, you can't believe what they are going
through". One other contractor told me I was "nuts" to try to reattach
all my tiles back on, that it will be more expensive (laborwise) than
replacing new tiles on my entire roof. He suggested that he just
inject RG45 (?) to a couple of spots and the tiles should stay on their
own by their weight and their interlocking edges. I said what if the
next hurricane comes? He said well this is a one in a 50 year thing so
that's unlikely...

So I am confused whether I should spot fix only what's broken, reattach
all loose tiles, or replace my roof. Is the nailing method the proper
method but their bad experience is due to poor workmanship and inproper
installation? or is it not desirable in south florida?

MC

Concrete tiles on my home were nailed. Tops,valleys/cuts, ends were
cemented.
I do know of some tiles are installed differently
You will need to find out what you have and then replace in like kind.

Sorry the only RG45 I know of is a coaxial cable, reasonable sure that is
not the case here.

Weather service says the storm outlook for next year could be as bad. Of
course I am speaking of weather forecasting, which I equate to "practicing
medicine"

Every 50-100 yr old house ive seen was nailed, go to Europe, or look at
photos of houses much older, nails there too. You figure it out, its
simple.

So I am confused whether I should spot fix only what's broken, reattach
all loose tiles, or replace my roof. Is the nailing method the proper
method but their bad experience is due to poor workmanship and inproper
installation? or is it not desirable in south florida?

MC

Well, the method that was used before came apart, so THAT'S obviously
out...

I understand that the codes in FL now require nailing, although many
roofers are prone to cheat with mud on the 5 courses closest to the
eave...
You should be able to repair the roof but will need to buy extra
material to allow for damage you will do while working.
I bet you can get some good info from the following web site:
http://www.floridaroof.com/

wrote:
They use screws in the coastal counties. The roofers have a gun that
shoots 3" screws from a strip.

Not where I live.

All of the better roofers here (Florida west coast) are now using
adhesive attachment systems such as Dow's TileBond or PolyFoam's Proset

http://www.polyfoam.cc/products/roof/polyset.html

Adhesive attachment avoids penetration of the underlayment that occurs
with nails and screws, and the hardened foam pad provides support for
those installations where occasional walking on the tiles is required.

Oh, and for the OP the adhesive your contractor was recommending is
RT-600.

http://www.osiproseries.com/adhesive...tile-adhesive/

MiamiCuse wrote:
My roof right now are concrete roof tiles. After hurricane Wilma
about 20 tiles broke, cracked and missing. The rest seem to be in
good shape. However, many of them have been "shifted" from their
original position. They were originally all mortared in (a thick
blob of mortar between the tile and the tar paper underneath).

A classic failure mode for mortar-set systems most frequently caused by
poor installation or improper mortar mix. The contractor probably mixed
the mortar on site and it didn't have the right bonding characteristics,
or they used too small a mortar pad under the tile.

http://www.concretemonthly.com/monthly/art.php/1772

If "many" tiles have shifted then I'd also be worried about ripping of
the underlayment. Are you sure it is in good shape? If so, you might
want to consider resetting the tiles with RT-600, otherwise I would wait
a year for the demand to die down and then reroof with a commercial
grade underlayment system (modified bitumen) and a contemporary
(adhesive) attachment system. Be sure to renail the sheathing at this
time, and consider a secondary waterproofing barrier too.

http://www.blueprintforsafety.org/wi...rkeeproof.aspx

Well the honest intelligent roofers here in the midwest Nail with
Copper nails , as has been proven leak free for apx 1000 years + -. I
don't buy BS "New -Better" bs products by a company selling those
products, its sales crap, untried, untested in real life long term use,
and only long term real life use can qualify a product as better.

Roofers use the new product because it makes them More Money, thats
it.

Regardless of whether I use nail, screw or adhesive, I am still a bit
confused as to the best way to fix the roof.

It seems whoever I called and ask for an estimate feels that I am crazy to
ask them how much it will cost to examine and reattch each and every tile.
They said if I did that I might as well redo the whole roof, that it is less
costly to rip out all old tiles and put in new ones then to go one by one to
deal with the old tiles. They won't even consider it, even we know there is
no concrete tile availability for a whole year. Many of them suggest I
throw away my current tiled roof (9 years old - I was told it has a life of
20 years) and replace with a shingle roof which I know most of them around
my house were damaged much worst.

MC

Yea throw them away and they will resell it, a common scam ive seen to
often. Go by some roofers lots and you will see many different roofs
tiles stacked, thousands of tiles they just 'Threw away" but will
gladly sell peice by piece, its gold to them, big money. Ive redone
tile, took them down , fixed the roof and brought them up and Nailed
them with Copper nails, its the way we do it up North, the right way, no
modern, life expectancy unknown "Super caulk"
Tile going bad in 20 years, Geeze, ive not seen an 80 yr old tile job
that " Needed " replacement, and here it goes from -25 to110f. You got
alot a BSers down yer ways. . One thing true, removal to groundl and
reseting may be necessary. But I can`t see it. Fly me down its 5f up
here and 8" new snow.

miamicuse wrote:
Regardless of whether I use nail, screw or adhesive, I am still a bit
confused as to the best way to fix the roof.

So spend some $$ and hire a *qualified* person to examine it and outline
whatever alternatives exist amd the pro/cons of each. By "qualified" I
mean an architect - perhaps an engineer - but NOT a contractor.

There are numerous factors to be considered - type of underlayment, age,
pitch, current condition, etc. - and you need someone who knows what's
what.
___________________

It seems whoever I called and ask for an estimate feels that I am
crazy to ask them how much it will cost to examine and reattch each
and every tile. They said if I did that I might as well redo the
whole roof, that it is less costly to rip out all old tiles and put
in new ones then to go one by one to deal with the old tiles.

They're right. How do you expect them to "examine and reattach each and
every tile" without removing the lot? And without breaking them yet!
That is way different from having them fix broken/moved ones.

--
dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

Is it fair to say that there is a "weak link" in the roof tiles? They are
supposed to be all "interlocked" with a lip on each end. Yet after Wilma it
seems the first three or four rows were shifted "out", with the row along
the edge the worst. Logic tells me this is because the outer edge row of
tiles sticks out a bit more, and therefore the wind can push up against more
surface area from below. Once it lifts the first row it disturbs the second
row and third and so on.

So I think the minimum I need to do is to get every tile in the first two
rows all around reattached - mortared, nailed may be both? Also the ridge
tiles.

Then depending on what my insurance says I will either reset each and
everyone, or spot treat at specific interval with adhesive RT600 on the
interior ones.

Does that seem reasonable?

MC

"miamicuse" wrote in message
...
Regardless of whether I use nail, screw or adhesive, I am still a bit
confused as to the best way to fix the roof.

It seems whoever I called and ask for an estimate feels that I am crazy to
ask them how much it will cost to examine and reattch each and every tile.
They said if I did that I might as well redo the whole roof, that it is
less
costly to rip out all old tiles and put in new ones then to go one by one
to
deal with the old tiles. They won't even consider it, even we know there
is
no concrete tile availability for a whole year. Many of them suggest I
throw away my current tiled roof (9 years old - I was told it has a life
of
20 years) and replace with a shingle roof which I know most of them around
my house were damaged much worst.

MC

miamicuse wrote:
Is it fair to say that there is a "weak link" in the roof tiles?
They are supposed to be all "interlocked" with a lip on each end.
Yet after Wilma it seems the first three or four rows were shifted
"out", with the row along the edge the worst. Logic tells me this is
because the outer edge row of tiles sticks out a bit more, and
therefore the wind can push up against more surface area from below.
Once it lifts the first row it disturbs the second row and third and
so on.

So I think the minimum I need to do is to get every tile in the first
two rows all around reattached - mortared, nailed may be both? Also
the ridge tiles.

Then depending on what my insurance says I will either reset each and
everyone, or spot treat at specific interval with adhesive RT600 on
the interior ones.

Does that seem reasonable?

What did the architect say?


--
dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico