"Please tell me which -one- of the following 5 news groups you would
have posted this question to then:

alt.hvac
alt.home.repair
alt.energy.homepower
sci.engr.heat-vent-ac
misc.consumer

Perhaps I could have dropped misc.consumer or alt.hvac, but even those
groups touch on the house-hold energy plants and energy-consuming
devices. And my subject was very descriptive, allowing anyone to
simply not read the post if they didn't want to.

I think it would be wise to focus on the subject of the post, and not
get an ulcer over the relatively small and focused distribution of the
post itself. "

Don't worry about the complaining about the cross posting or your
questions....there are *ssholes everywhere and they all come to Usenet
sooner or later.

Hang in there and be patient....you'll get your answer in time.

And oh...the USA is lucky to have a great neighbor to the North.

TMT

Usenet recommends crossposting, where applicable, to
save memory storage space.

"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in
message
ups.com...
"Please tell me which -one- of the following 5 news
groups you would
have posted this question to then:

alt.hvac
alt.home.repair
alt.energy.homepower
sci.engr.heat-vent-ac
misc.consumer

Perhaps I could have dropped misc.consumer or
alt.hvac, but even those
groups touch on the house-hold energy plants and
energy-consuming
devices. And my subject was very descriptive,
allowing anyone to
simply not read the post if they didn't want to.

I think it would be wise to focus on the subject of
the post, and not
get an ulcer over the relatively small and focused
distribution of the
post itself. "

Don't worry about the complaining about the cross
posting or your
questions....there are *ssholes everywhere and they
all come to Usenet
sooner or later.

Hang in there and be patient....you'll get your
answer in time.

And oh...the USA is lucky to have a great neighbor to
the North.

TMT

On Mon, 5 Dec 2005 17:29:35 -0500, "John P.. Bengi"
JBengispam@spam@yahoo,com wrote:

Usenet recommends crossposting, where applicable, to
save memory storage space.

That's nice.

APPROPRIATE groups, not just ANY ****ING GROUPS YOU FEEL LKE
HITTING.



"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in
message
oups.com...
"Please tell me which -one- of the following 5 news
groups you would
have posted this question to then:

alt.hvac

No - because it is not a forum for home-owner / DIY
questions,, and most ESPECIALLY not for HO's / DIY's who are posting
because they're JUST TOO ****ING LAZY to do their own homeowrk.

And oh...the USA is lucky to have a great neighbor to
the North.

Gag - Canada is ****ING LUCKY we let it exist, and we PROTECT
it and NO ONE DARE TOUCH IT BECAUSE IT WOULD **** US OFF.

The only reason we even let it exist is becuase we don't want
a bunch of wannabe-French fags moving in.



TMT



--

Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

wrote:
On Mon, 5 Dec 2005 17:29:35 -0500, "John P.. Bengi"
JBengispam@spam@yahoo,com wrote:

Usenet recommends crossposting, where applicable, to
save memory storage space.

That's nice.

APPROPRIATE groups, not just ANY ****ING GROUPS YOU FEEL LKE
HITTING.



"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in
message
oups.com...
"Please tell me which -one- of the following 5 news
groups you would
have posted this question to then:

alt.hvac

No - because it is not a forum for home-owner / DIY
questions,, and most ESPECIALLY not for HO's / DIY's who are posting
because they're JUST TOO ****ING LAZY to do their own homeowrk.

And oh...the USA is lucky to have a great neighbor to
the North.

Gag - Canada is ****ING LUCKY we let it exist, and we PROTECT
it and NO ONE DARE TOUCH IT BECAUSE IT WOULD **** US OFF.

The only reason we even let it exist is becuase we don't want
a bunch of wannabe-French fags moving in.

No Canada is lucky that the USA has not tried to invade it for almost
200 years. We used to deport the French to Lousiana.




TMT



--

Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

The USA tried to invade Canada many times and always
lost.

"Abby Normal" wrote in message
oups.com...

wrote:
On Mon, 5 Dec 2005 17:29:35 -0500, "John P..
Bengi"
JBengispam@spam@yahoo,com wrote:

Usenet recommends crossposting, where applicable,
to
save memory storage space.

That's nice.

APPROPRIATE groups, not just ANY ****ING GROUPS YOU
FEEL LKE
HITTING.



"Too_Many_Tools" wrote
in
message

oups.
com...
"Please tell me which -one- of the following 5
news
groups you would
have posted this question to then:

alt.hvac

No - because it is not a forum for home-owner / DIY
questions,, and most ESPECIALLY not for HO's /
DIY's who are posting
because they're JUST TOO ****ING LAZY to do their
own homeowrk.

And oh...the USA is lucky to have a great
neighbor to
the North.

Gag - Canada is ****ING LUCKY we let it exist, and
we PROTECT
it and NO ONE DARE TOUCH IT BECAUSE IT WOULD ****
US OFF.

The only reason we even let it exist is becuase we
don't want
a bunch of wannabe-French fags moving in.

No Canada is lucky that the USA has not tried to
invade it for almost
200 years. We used to deport the French to Lousiana.




TMT



--

Click here every day to feed an animal that needs
you today !!!

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email
me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the
restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online
http://pmilligan.net/palm/

Yeh, right, stimpy. SUUURE we did.

On Mon, 5 Dec 2005 19:43:55 -0500, "SolarFlare"
wrote:

The USA tried to invade Canada many times and always
lost.

"Abby Normal" wrote in message
roups.com...

wrote:
On Mon, 5 Dec 2005 17:29:35 -0500, "John P..
Bengi"
JBengispam@spam@yahoo,com wrote:

Usenet recommends crossposting, where applicable,
to
save memory storage space.

That's nice.

APPROPRIATE groups, not just ANY ****ING GROUPS YOU
FEEL LKE
HITTING.



"Too_Many_Tools" wrote
in
message

roups.
com...
"Please tell me which -one- of the following 5
news
groups you would
have posted this question to then:

alt.hvac

No - because it is not a forum for home-owner / DIY
questions,, and most ESPECIALLY not for HO's /
DIY's who are posting
because they're JUST TOO ****ING LAZY to do their
own homeowrk.

And oh...the USA is lucky to have a great
neighbor to
the North.

Gag - Canada is ****ING LUCKY we let it exist, and
we PROTECT
it and NO ONE DARE TOUCH IT BECAUSE IT WOULD ****
US OFF.

The only reason we even let it exist is becuase we
don't want
a bunch of wannabe-French fags moving in.

No Canada is lucky that the USA has not tried to
invade it for almost
200 years. We used to deport the French to Lousiana.




TMT



--

Click here every day to feed an animal that needs
you today !!!

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email
me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the
restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online
http://pmilligan.net/palm/



--

Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

According to :
And oh...the USA is lucky to have a great neighbor to
the North.

Gag - Canada is ****ING LUCKY we let it exist, and we PROTECT
it and NO ONE DARE TOUCH IT BECAUSE IT WOULD **** US OFF.

Ah yes, another member of the Anne Coulter school of the historically
ignorant.

The only reason we even let it exist is becuase we don't want
a bunch of wannabe-French fags moving in.

Too late, they already did. Or have you not heard of Louisiana?
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

According to :
On Mon, 5 Dec 2005 19:43:55 -0500, "SolarFlare"
wrote:

The USA tried to invade Canada many times and always
lost.
Yeh, right, stimpy. SUUURE we did.

Never heard of the war of 1812, have you?

Or the Fenian raids?

Ann Coulter would be soooo proud of you.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

On Tue, 06 Dec 2005 14:02:21 -0000, (Chris
Lewis) wrote:

According to :
On Mon, 5 Dec 2005 19:43:55 -0500, "SolarFlare"
wrote:

The USA tried to invade Canada many times and always
lost.
Yeh, right, stimpy. SUUURE we did.

Never heard of the war of 1812, have you?

Or the Fenian raids?

Well..... ummm....... 'recently' :-)

Ann Coulter would be soooo proud of you.

Better her than Maureen Dowd or Katrina Vanden Heuval !!!!


--

Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

According to Steve Scott :
On Tue, 06 Dec 2005 14:02:21 -0000, (Chris
Lewis) wrote:

According to :
On Mon, 5 Dec 2005 19:43:55 -0500, "SolarFlare"
wrote:

The USA tried to invade Canada many times and always
lost.
Yeh, right, stimpy. SUUURE we did.

Never heard of the war of 1812, have you?

Hmm, Canada wasn't even a country then. It was a British colony.

Picky picky ;-) Still the same place, and the same peoples.

Indeed, if you hadn't deployed WMDs (torching towns in Niagara) we
probably would be US states by now. [Up until then it was primarily
British regulars and their Indian allies you were fighting. After that,
the Canadians got ****ed off too.]

Or the Fenian raids?

The Fenian raids? Irish trying to get the Brits out of Ireland.

[By attacking Canada from the US. Makes sense somehow I guess.]

Hardly the USA. And they started while Canada was still a colony of
Britain.

Started. Continued until afterwards, with the US government continuing
to turn a blind eye to it.

Ann Coulter would be soooo proud of you.

Your history teacher must be proud of you.

I think they were.

We're still waiting for the repayment over the property you stole from our
ancestors in the late 1700s evil grin.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

According to :
On Tue, 06 Dec 2005 14:02:21 -0000, (Chris
Lewis) wrote:
Well..... ummm....... 'recently' :-)

I note that the US has continued it's fine old tradition of dropping
bombs on Canadian troops as late as just a year or two ago... sickly grin

[Which is kinda disappointing, because the US has also been issuing
Canadian troops with a fair number of medals for their efforts in
Afghanistan.]

Ann Coulter would be soooo proud of you.

Better her than Maureen Dowd or Katrina Vanden Heuval !!!!

Considering that in this country, being a "liberal" isn't considered
worse than being a pedophile, and that our politics are considered
by many of your politicians to be slightly to the left of Fidel
Castro's, I suspect I wouldn't agree.

But, I don't know of either of them well enough to comment ;-)
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

According to Steve Scott :
On Tue, 06 Dec 2005 19:45:59 -0000, (Chris
Lewis) wrote:

Indeed, if you hadn't deployed WMDs (torching towns in Niagara) we
probably would be US states by now. [Up until then it was primarily
British regulars and their Indian allies you were fighting. After that,
the Canadians got ****ed off too.]

So we kicked the Brits, Indians AND Canadians. And probably had
one tied behind our backs to make it fair.

If you had kicked the Brits, Indians, and Canadians, we would be a state.

You lost that war, remember? Oh, I forgot, the Americans claim that they
won that one.

Militarily, we had the edge at the end (we held parts of the US).
Politically, it was a draw (the Brits gave those parts back [+]).

But, from the perspective of what the intent of the American invaders _was_
(take over Canada to "free" us from the British oppression, which we happened
to _like_ ;-), you blew it big time.

We're still waiting for the repayment over the property you stole from our
ancestors in the late 1700s evil grin.

Take an IOU?

We'll have to take the advice of the US mint: In God We Trust, all others pay cash. ;-)

[+] Well, from another perspective, we won that part too - we made you take Detroit
back ;-)
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

Chris Lewis wrote:
If you had kicked the Brits, Indians, and Canadians, we would be a state.

You lost that war, remember? Oh, I forgot, the Americans claim that they
won that one.

Let's see, we got England to stop boarding ships and impressing the
crew into their navy, plus England finally recognized the USA. Plus,
England gave up some land that had formerly been considered part of
Canada. It wasn't Drummond's Island anymore.

Militarily, we had the edge at the end (we held parts of the US).
Politically, it was a draw (the Brits gave those parts back [+]).

If you read the treaties that ended the two wars with England, you'll
know that 1812 wasn't a draw.

But, from the perspective of what the intent of the American invaders _was_
(take over Canada to "free" us from the British oppression, which we happened
to _like_ ;-), you blew it big time.

American invaders? The "invasion" was the other way, the Brits taking
Mackinac Island first.

The Americans tried to take back Mackinac three times
unsuccessfully. In the end we gave it to them for
political gain.

"Tony Wesley" wrote in message
oups.com...

Chris Lewis wrote:
If you had kicked the Brits, Indians, and
Canadians, we would be a state.

You lost that war, remember? Oh, I forgot, the
Americans claim that they
won that one.

Let's see, we got England to stop boarding ships and
impressing the
crew into their navy, plus England finally recognized
the USA. Plus,
England gave up some land that had formerly been
considered part of
Canada. It wasn't Drummond's Island anymore.

Militarily, we had the edge at the end (we held
parts of the US).
Politically, it was a draw (the Brits gave those
parts back [+]).

If you read the treaties that ended the two wars with
England, you'll
know that 1812 wasn't a draw.

But, from the perspective of what the intent of the
American invaders _was_
(take over Canada to "free" us from the British
oppression, which we happened
to _like_ ;-), you blew it big time.

American invaders? The "invasion" was the other way,
the Brits taking
Mackinac Island first.

According to Tony Wesley :

Chris Lewis wrote:
If you had kicked the Brits, Indians, and Canadians, we would be a state.

You lost that war, remember? Oh, I forgot, the Americans claim that they
won that one.

Let's see, we got England to stop boarding ships and impressing the
crew into their navy, plus England finally recognized the USA.

That happened two days _before_ the Americans declared war.

Read the history: http://gatewayno.com/history/War1812.html

Plus,
England gave up some land that had formerly been considered part of
Canada. It wasn't Drummond's Island anymore.

Militarily, we had the edge at the end (we held parts of the US).
Politically, it was a draw (the Brits gave those parts back [+]).

If you read the treaties that ended the two wars with England, you'll
know that 1812 wasn't a draw.

Back to http://gatewayno.com/history/War1812.html:

- U.S. forces were not ready for war, and American hopes of conquering Canada collapsed
in the campaigns of 1812 and 1813.

H'm. "Hopes to conquer Canada collapsed". So, what you started the war over
was obsolete by the time war was declared, you didn't conquer Canada, and
the land possession hardly changed if at all.

A draw.

But, from the perspective of what the intent of the American invaders _was_
(take over Canada to "free" us from the British oppression, which we happened
to _like_ ;-), you blew it big time.

American invaders? The "invasion" was the other way, the Brits taking
Mackinac Island first.

We were supposed to sit around twiddling our thumbs after you declared war on us?

Back to that same link again:

- They argued that American honor could be saved and British policies changed
by an invasion of Canada.

[Remembering of course that British policies had already been changed.]
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

Chris Lewis wrote:

According to Tony Wesley :

Chris Lewis wrote:

If you had kicked the Brits, Indians, and Canadians, we would be a state.


You lost that war, remember? Oh, I forgot, the Americans claim that they
won that one.



Let's see, we got England to stop boarding ships and impressing the
crew into their navy, plus England finally recognized the USA.


That happened two days _before_ the Americans declared war.

Read the history: http://gatewayno.com/history/War1812.html


Plus,
England gave up some land that had formerly been considered part of
Canada. It wasn't Drummond's Island anymore.


Militarily, we had the edge at the end (we held parts of the US).
Politically, it was a draw (the Brits gave those parts back [+]).



If you read the treaties that ended the two wars with England, you'll
know that 1812 wasn't a draw.


Back to http://gatewayno.com/history/War1812.html:

- U.S. forces were not ready for war, and American hopes of conquering Canada collapsed
in the campaigns of 1812 and 1813.

H'm. "Hopes to conquer Canada collapsed". So, what you started the war over
was obsolete by the time war was declared, you didn't conquer Canada, and
the land possession hardly changed if at all.

A draw.


But, from the perspective of what the intent of the American invaders _was_
(take over Canada to "free" us from the British oppression, which we happened
to _like_ ;-), you blew it big time.



American invaders? The "invasion" was the other way, the Brits taking
Mackinac Island first.


We were supposed to sit around twiddling our thumbs after you declared war on us?

Back to that same link again:

- They argued that American honor could be saved and British policies changed
by an invasion of Canada.

[Remembering of course that British policies had already been changed.]

The Americans were still trying to take over Canada as late as 1866.

"John P.. Bengi" JBengispam@spam@yahoo,com wrote in message
.. .
The Americans tried to take back Mackinac three times
unsuccessfully. In the end we gave it to them for
political gain.



Canada didn't want it. It was too fricken cold there.

"Chris Lewis" wrote in message
...
According to :
On Tue, 06 Dec 2005 14:02:21 -0000, (Chris
Lewis) wrote:
Well..... ummm....... 'recently' :-)

I note that the US has continued it's fine old tradition of dropping
bombs on Canadian troops as late as just a year or two ago... sickly
grin

[Which is kinda disappointing, because the US has also been issuing
Canadian troops with a fair number of medals for their efforts in
Afghanistan.]


Gotta give 'em something shiny to play with so they feel important...



Ann Coulter would be soooo proud of you.

Better her than Maureen Dowd or Katrina Vanden Heuval !!!!

Considering that in this country, being a "liberal" isn't considered
worse than being a pedophile, and that our politics are considered
by many of your politicians to be slightly to the left of Fidel
Castro's, I suspect I wouldn't agree.

But, I don't know of either of them well enough to comment ;-)
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

Chris Lewis wrote:
According to Tony Wesley :

Chris Lewis wrote:
If you had kicked the Brits, Indians, and Canadians, we would be a state.

You lost that war, remember? Oh, I forgot, the Americans claim that they
won that one.

Let's see, we got England to stop boarding ships and impressing the
crew into their navy, plus England finally recognized the USA.

That happened two days _before_ the Americans declared war.

Read the history: http://gatewayno.com/history/War1812.html

Not a word in there about England recognizing the USA. England did not
treat US as a sovereign nation until after the War of 1812. It
recognized the individual states as sovereign *states*.

The page you reference does not say England stopped boarding ships, nor
did it issue orders to stop doing so, it says they (Britain) had
announced that it *would* revoke its orders. No telling when they'd
get around to doing that. Probably sometime after they would get
around abiding by the terms of the Treaty of Paris and withdraw their
troops from the agreed upon land.

Plus,
England gave up some land that had formerly been considered part of
Canada. It wasn't Drummond's Island anymore.

Militarily, we had the edge at the end (we held parts of the US).
Politically, it was a draw (the Brits gave those parts back [+]).

If you read the treaties that ended the two wars with England, you'll
know that 1812 wasn't a draw.

Back to http://gatewayno.com/history/War1812.html:

- U.S. forces were not ready for war, and American hopes of conquering Canada collapsed
in the campaigns of 1812 and 1813.

H'm. "Hopes to conquer Canada collapsed". So, what you started the war over
was obsolete by the time war was declared, you didn't conquer Canada, and
the land possession hardly changed if at all.

A draw.

So you agree the US didn't lose it.

American invaders? The "invasion" was the other way, the Brits taking
Mackinac Island first.

We were supposed to sit around twiddling our thumbs after you declared war on us?

Apply the same standards the other way. By this point, the English
Navy has been commiting acts of war for years. Was the United States
supposed to "sit around twiddling our thumbs"?

According to Tony Wesley :
Chris Lewis wrote:
According to Tony Wesley :

Chris Lewis wrote:
If you had kicked the Brits, Indians, and Canadians, we would be a state.

You lost that war, remember? Oh, I forgot, the Americans claim that they
won that one.

Let's see, we got England to stop boarding ships and impressing the
crew into their navy, plus England finally recognized the USA.

That happened two days _before_ the Americans declared war.

Read the history: http://gatewayno.com/history/War1812.html

Not a word in there about England recognizing the USA. England did not
treat US as a sovereign nation until after the War of 1812. It
recognized the individual states as sovereign *states*.

But so did those states! Texas still does! ;-)

[That's not as sarcastic as it sounds. The US states considered themselves
far more autonomous then than they do now. The US couldn't raise an army -
legally they could, but, in reality, it was by the states.]

The page you reference does not say England stopped boarding ships, nor
did it issue orders to stop doing so, it says they (Britain) had
announced that it *would* revoke its orders. No telling when they'd
get around to doing that. Probably sometime after they would get
around abiding by the terms of the Treaty of Paris and withdraw their
troops from the agreed upon land.

Well, it was only 2 days - that was hardly enough time for anyone
to do anything about it. Nobody on this side of the pond knew
anything about that for a few weeks.

Militarily, we had the edge at the end (we held parts of the US).
Politically, it was a draw (the Brits gave those parts back [+]).

If you read the treaties that ended the two wars with England, you'll
know that 1812 wasn't a draw.

Back to http://gatewayno.com/history/War1812.html:

- U.S. forces were not ready for war, and American hopes of conquering Canada collapsed
in the campaigns of 1812 and 1813.

H'm. "Hopes to conquer Canada collapsed". So, what you started the war over
was obsolete by the time war was declared, you didn't conquer Canada, and
the land possession hardly changed if at all.

A draw.

So you agree the US didn't lose it.

They didn't lose any territory out of it - a draw on that basis.

But, let's step back and look at it strictly and simply from the perspective
of goals:

- The US started the war to redress certain wrongs, and invade/conquer Canada.
- Canada "reacted" to that threat, with the goal being to repell the invasion.

Then achievements:

- The "wrongs" were mostly moot, and the invasion failed.
- Canada repelled the invasion.

Depending on how you define things, that's either a win for us (we achieved
our goals), or a draw (we didn't make you lose territory).

In reality, it was a remarkably dumb war. If the timing had been better,
there'd have been no war. The war was a remarkable series of blunders,
sheer luck (freakish occurances during the naval battles), and several strokes
of absolute brilliance - ie: the taking of Detroit[*], the defence of Niagara,
and the most important one of all: the US capturing a draw at the treaty
of Ghent[+]. Without that, you'd have been screwed.

American invaders? The "invasion" was the other way, the Brits taking
Mackinac Island first.

We were supposed to sit around twiddling our thumbs after you declared war on us?

Apply the same standards the other way. By this point, the English
Navy has been commiting acts of war for years. Was the United States
supposed to "sit around twiddling our thumbs"?

So you invade _us_. Makes sense, maybe.

[+]Ghent happened simply because Britain had just finished the war
with France, and were faced with the unpopularity of more years of heavy
taxation sending large numbers of just-released battle hardened troops to
North America.

Throughout the war, there were at most 3,000 British regulars
in Canada[=]. If Ghent hadn't happened, there would have
been 30,000 more on the way within months. But Britain was only
interested in finishing it - and didn't even know that we were
winning ground (again, that dang trans-atlantic communications lag).
Heck, nobody knew til weeks later that the war was over - the
Battle of New Orleans took place 2 weeks after the war was over.
[Which is just as well, because we screwed the pooch on that one.]
[*] An early implementation of psychological warfare. Ridiculously
small force gets their even smaller number of indians irregulars to
march back and forth making lots of noise just out of sight. The
American commander, remembering full well how ****ed off the Indians
were about getting massacred during the American push west, figured
their only salvation was to surrender to the Brits and plead that
they be protected from the Indians. So he surrendered. Boy was he
embarrassed to find out that he had been surrendered to a mere handful
of troops/irregulars who were laughing themselves silly.

[=] During the first two years, the fighting on our side was
carried out almost exclusively by the British regulars and the Indians
they had helping them. It wasn't until the burning of towns in Niagara
that fighting the war became popular, and the British, French, and UEL
colonists pitched in too.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

Y'know what really seems to bug most Canadians? That the rest of the world
does know a damn thing about them, and frankly doesn't care.

Chris Lewis wrote:
According to Tony Wesley :

[snippage, to try to reduce the size of the post. My last post on this
very off-topic subject]

Not a word in there about England recognizing the USA. England did not
treat US as a sovereign nation until after the War of 1812. It
recognized the individual states as sovereign *states*.

But so did those states! Texas still does! ;-)

[That's not as sarcastic as it sounds. The US states considered themselves
far more autonomous then than they do now. The US couldn't raise an army -
legally they could, but, in reality, it was by the states.]

I agree with you. The War of 1812 changed that.

Then achievements:

- The "wrongs" were mostly moot, and the invasion failed.
- Canada repelled the invasion.

Depending on how you define things, that's either a win for us (we achieved
our goals), or a draw (we didn't make you lose territory).

I disagree that the wrongs were moot. The USA took on a superpower
that still had thoughts of re-capturing it and backed it down. Sure,
Britian could have spent more money and sent more troops. They could
have done that back in 1783, too.

In reality, it was a remarkably dumb war. If the timing had been better,
there'd have been no war. The war was a remarkable series of blunders,
sheer luck (freakish occurances during the naval battles), and several strokes
of absolute brilliance - ie: the taking of Detroit[*], the defence of Niagara,
and the most important one of all: the US capturing a draw at the treaty
of Ghent[+]. Without that, you'd have been screwed.

American invaders? The "invasion" was the other way, the Brits taking
Mackinac Island first.

We were supposed to sit around twiddling our thumbs after you declared war on us?

Apply the same standards the other way. By this point, the English
Navy has been commiting acts of war for years. Was the United States
supposed to "sit around twiddling our thumbs"?

So you invade _us_. Makes sense, maybe.

Well, who is "us"? At that point.. now, I've been saying England
because Mother England ruled everything, but it would be proper to say
Great Britain and that includes her colonies. It would have difficult
for the US troops to invade the English homeland. (Although I believe
American pirate ships did raid the British Isles and one was captured
in Wales)

So, Canada was the convenient place to strike at Britain.

So, if you include yourself as part of Britain, sure, it does make
sense. And British troops from Canada did invade the USA.

But anyway, the first aggression was Britain attacking on US soil.

[+]Ghent happened simply because Britain had just finished the war
with France, and were faced with the unpopularity of more years of heavy
taxation sending large numbers of just-released battle hardened troops to
North America.

And the USA could have continued the war in Vietnam but we were faced
with the unpopularity...

[*] An early implementation of psychological warfare.

Or one of those remarkable blunders.

[=] During the first two years, the fighting on our side was
carried out almost exclusively by the British regulars and the Indians
they had helping them. It wasn't until the burning of towns in Niagara
that fighting the war became popular, and the British, French, and UEL
colonists pitched in too.

The atrocities at the River Raisin started motivating the US side as
well.

According to wkearney99 :
Y'know what really seems to bug most Canadians? That the rest of the world
does know a damn thing about them, and frankly doesn't care.

Your sentence construction only makes logical sense if you _meant_
"doesn't know a damn thing". Which is wrong actually. The rest
of the world does know quite a bit about Canada, tho, liberally
sprinkled with the usual stereotypes (singing mounties and the
rest). An opportunity for humour and considerable kidding, not
being bugged about.

What you're actually seeing is a sense of disgust at how
appallingly bad the US educational system is. The worst
in the 1st world. Which is particularly annoying since
we've always been your largest trading partner - eg:
your largest supplier of petro fuels for most of the past
few years.

Instead, we see the results of an educational system that
all too often results in students not being able to pick out
their _own_ country on a map.

Or a president who can't pronounce "condom" ;-)

The level of knowledge in the rest of the world seems about
right. It has advantages: We're less likely to be shot at.
[Some American travellers have taken to wearing Canadian
flags or pins. Less hassle. Do US Passports/travel
advisories still say "If in trouble, and you can't find
a US embassy, try a British or Canadian one"? There were
a couple of Americans in Tehran in 1978 who found that
advice quite useful. Oh, right, you probably don't know
about that.]
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

According to Steve Scott :
You're exactly right on this point, Chris. It's a real shame what 40
years of ever more liberal educators have done to the US educational
system.

Oh come now, Steve, our liberal educators can out-liberal your
liberal educators any day of the week[+], and have been doing it
far longer. Yet, our kids do considerably better.

It's way too easy to blame it on the "liberal boogyman", when the
real problem is governmental and societal neglect.

Even Heinlein fell into that trap.

[+] By US standards, we don't have _any_ non-liberal educators.
Heck, the current ruling party[*] isn't even afraid to call themselves
"Liberals". How liberal can you get? ;-)
[*] Past 11 years. Election next month. Perhaps the conservative
party will take over. Tho, by US standards, they're liberal.
Hell, by US standards, our fascist party is liberal too. Americans
don't realize how far right their government is compared to the
rest of the world. Most of the rest of the world considers the
Democrats and Republicans so far to the right to be indistinguishable
from Genghis Khan.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

mike wilcox wrote:
The Americans were still trying to take over Canada as late as 1866.

Hell, in 1995 Michael Moore invaded Canada.

--
If John McCain gets the 2008 Republican Presidential nomination,
my vote for President will be a write-in for Jiang Zemin.

Chris Lewis wrote:
Your sentence construction only makes logical sense if you _meant_
"doesn't know a damn thing". Which is wrong actually. The rest
of the world does know quite a bit about Canada, tho, liberally
sprinkled with the usual stereotypes (singing mounties and the
rest).

One halloween when I was a kid, I went as Sgt. Preston.

What you're actually seeing is a sense of disgust at how
appallingly bad the US educational system is. The worst
in the 1st world. Which is particularly annoying since
we've always been your largest trading partner - eg:
your largest supplier of petro fuels for most of the past
few years.

At this moment I'm safe to say that Canada's chief export is cold air.

--
If John McCain gets the 2008 Republican Presidential nomination,
my vote for President will be a write-in for Jiang Zemin.

Steve Scott wrote:
And it was still a colony then. Great Britain's colony.

On Tue, 06 Dec 2005 19:38:54 -0500, mike wilcox
wrote:


The Americans were still trying to take over Canada as late as 1866.

You could have gotten renvenge on us by letting us have Quebec! ;-p