I have a toilet (Kohler) that has a float instead of the ball on the
stick (I know.... I have no idea the real terms). The problem is the
float seems to have an issue rising as the water rises. In other
words, the float starts to rise once it gets about 1/4 submerged, but
then stops rising and gets about 3/4 submerged, then shoots back up to
about 1/4 submerged and so on. This causes the water to shut off
instantly on one of the quick shoot ups (causing water hammer). I have
drained the tank and the float seems to travel up and down without any
sticking points. Do the floats wear out? If so, can I simply buy a
new float, or do I need to get a new water setup (again, no idea the
real term).

In article . com,
grodenhiATgmailDOTcom wrote:
I have a toilet (Kohler) that has a float instead of the ball on the
stick (I know.... I have no idea the real terms). The problem is the
float seems to have an issue rising as the water rises. In other
words, the float starts to rise once it gets about 1/4 submerged, but
then stops rising and gets about 3/4 submerged, then shoots back up to
about 1/4 submerged and so on. This causes the water to shut off
instantly on one of the quick shoot ups (causing water hammer). I have
drained the tank and the float seems to travel up and down without any
sticking points. Do the floats wear out? If so, can I simply buy a
new float, or do I need to get a new water setup (again, no idea the
real term).

This is an educated GUESS.

The ballcock assembly (float, arm, and valve) is sticking somewhere. If
it were me, I would remove the entire assembly and replace it with a
Fluidmaster ballcock assembly. No arm, the float is more compact and
once adjusted properly will work well. Read the installation
instructions carefully.

--
Rich Greenberg Marietta, GA, USA richgr atsign panix.com + 1 770 321 6507
Eastern time. N6LRT I speak for myself & my dogs only. VM'er since CP-67
Canines:Val, Red & Shasta (RIP),Red, husky Owner:Chinook-L
Atlanta Siberian Husky Rescue. www.panix.com/~richgr/ Asst Owner:Sibernet-L

I think thats what I do have (well the Kohler version of it). The
float is a black ring around the fill pipe that rises with the water
and turns off the water by turning off the supply via a switch at the
top. The problem is, the floats starts out rising with the water but
then gets "stuck" until its nearly submerged, then is shoots up to
where it should be, and gets stuck again and bobs , this second bobbing
turns off the water VERY quickly causing the pipes to shake. I have
drained the water and moved the float up and down its entire run and I
can't feel any sticking point at all. My first guess was the float has
a leak or something. The assembly seems cheap (10-15 dollars) but
what's involved to install it? Do you think a new one will fix the
problem? Shouldn't the float move up evenly (as the water does).
Thanks in advance!!!

grodenhiATgmailDOTcom wrote:

I have a toilet (Kohler) that has a float instead of the ball on the
stick (I know.... I have no idea the real terms). The problem is the
float seems to have an issue rising as the water rises. In other
words, the float starts to rise once it gets about 1/4 submerged, but
then stops rising and gets about 3/4 submerged, then shoots back up to
about 1/4 submerged and so on. This causes the water to shut off
instantly on one of the quick shoot ups (causing water hammer). I have
drained the tank and the float seems to travel up and down without any
sticking points. Do the floats wear out? If so, can I simply buy a
new float, or do I need to get a new water setup (again, no idea the
real term).



You may not get away from that "water hammer" thing that easily. Some of
those systems have a toggling action which causes the water to shut off
quickly when the float finally rises high.

Play with the float by moving it by hand with the water to the toilet
turned on and see if lifting it gently to the shutoff level gives you a
quiet shutoff without that water hammer. If it does, then your analysis
is correct, and a new fill valve assembly may fix things. (I like
"Fluidmasters", and they cost less that $10 at box stores.)

You could also try just partially opening the supply valve to that
toilet to see if there's less of a water hammer when the incoming flow
is a little slower.

HTH,

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"Truth exists; only falsehood has to be invented."

Good idea (trying it by hand to see if that takes care of it). This
just started happening around the same time I adjusted the float to
stop the tank from continually overfilling. I have adjusted the float
and water supply several times, it lessens the hammer but I still get
some. Why would it be the toilet only (ie, none of the sinks,
sprinkler system, or washing machine do this)? If worst comes to
worst, what is the cost for a water hammer arrestor?

Follow up.... I tried the manual movement of the switch and it still
made the water hammer noise. It feels like on the switch that there's
no slow transition between on and off, it suddenly shuts the water.
Just to be sure..... the noise I hear comes from 1 location in the
basement, it's of the water pipe rubbing against the joist for the
floor (sounds like a rattling/rubbing noise as the pipe shakes for a
second or two). Is there a new ballock I can buy that closes slowly
(do they wear out and now mine closes suddenly or something). I hate
to put too much time/money into this if its only caused by the toilet.
Why would it suddenly start up?

grodenhiATgmailDOTcom wrote:

Follow up.... I tried the manual movement of the switch and it still
made the water hammer noise. It feels like on the switch that there's
no slow transition between on and off, it suddenly shuts the water.
Just to be sure..... the noise I hear comes from 1 location in the
basement, it's of the water pipe rubbing against the joist for the
floor (sounds like a rattling/rubbing noise as the pipe shakes for a
second or two). Is there a new ballock I can buy that closes slowly
(do they wear out and now mine closes suddenly or something). I hate
to put too much time/money into this if its only caused by the toilet.
Why would it suddenly start up?


Have you considered simply trying to restrain the pipe so it doesn't
vibrate like that, it should be pretty easy to "tie it down" or jam
something soft between it and what it rattles against.

I've got a feeling that most new fill valves will "snap" closed. The
ancient "ballcock" valves just squeezed the water off more and more as
the float rose, but sometimes would "squeal" for a few seconds just
before they fully closed.

HTH,

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"Truth exists; only falsehood has to be invented."

In article .com,
grodenhiATgmailDOTcom wrote:
I think thats what I do have (well the Kohler version of it). The
float is a black ring around the fill pipe that rises with the water
and turns off the water by turning off the supply via a switch at the
top. The problem is, the floats starts out rising with the water but
then gets "stuck" until its nearly submerged, then is shoots up to
where it should be, and gets stuck again and bobs , this second bobbing
turns off the water VERY quickly causing the pipes to shake. I have
drained the water and moved the float up and down its entire run and I
can't feel any sticking point at all. My first guess was the float has
a leak or something. The assembly seems cheap (10-15 dollars) but
what's involved to install it? Do you think a new one will fix the
problem? Shouldn't the float move up evenly (as the water does).

Yes, it should.

Its cheap and easy to replace. Replace it.

--
Rich Greenberg Marietta, GA, USA richgr atsign panix.com + 1 770 321 6507
Eastern time. N6LRT I speak for myself & my dogs only. VM'er since CP-67
Canines:Val, Red & Shasta (RIP),Red, husky Owner:Chinook-L
Atlanta Siberian Husky Rescue. www.panix.com/~richgr/ Asst Owner:Sibernet-L

grodenhiATgmailDOTcom wrote:
Follow up.... I tried the manual movement of the switch and it still
made the water hammer noise. It feels like on the switch that there's
no slow transition between on and off, it suddenly shuts the water.
Just to be sure..... the noise I hear comes from 1 location in the
basement, it's of the water pipe rubbing against the joist for the
floor (sounds like a rattling/rubbing noise as the pipe shakes for a
second or two). Is there a new ballock I can buy that closes slowly
(do they wear out and now mine closes suddenly or something). I hate
to put too much time/money into this if its only caused by the toilet.
Why would it suddenly start up?

It is my experience that they all close quickly by design so that there
is a clear distinction between open and closed so you don't end up with it
almost closed.

I suggest you work at the input end. Partly close the inlet valve.
That should take care of it. The last time I checked the instructions for
my toilet it had a specification for how long it should take to fill the
tank and advised the installer to adjust the valve to allow it to fill in
that time.

Your water pressure may have gone up a little and that may be the real
reason you are now having a problem. Throttling the intake valve should
take care of the problem.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

According to grodenhiATgmailDOTcom :
Shouldn't the float move up evenly (as the water does).

I consider the float sticking and water hammer two different
issues. If you address the latter without the former (ie:
cushioning the pipe where it bangs), you might end up with
the thing not banging anymore, just flooding the place...

It may be that the float has built up some hard water deposits, and
if it's in the slightest bit tilted while the water level rises,
it binds.

Wiping the column and the inside of the ring with some CLR
(or even hot vinegar) might help.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.