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  #1   Report Post  
JerryL
 
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Default Would you go into the attic?


wrote in message
...
I keep hearing about people drowning in the attic.

Huh?

Didn't they notice there wasn't an egress up there?



What was their option? Drown in the street or go to a higher spot? Those
that could chopped holes in their roof. Others that didn't or couldnt' died.


  #3   Report Post  
Goedjn
 
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What was their option? Drown in the street or go to a higher spot? Those
that could chopped holes in their roof. Others that didn't or couldnt' died.


Personally, I'm all in favor of:
"When the Governor tells you to GTF out, GTF out, and
take your little dog with you."

  #4   Report Post  
Colbyt
 
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wrote in message
...
I keep hearing about people drowning in the attic.

Huh?

Didn't they notice there wasn't an egress up there?



Drown or climb. What would you do?

I would climb.

Frankly after seeing all this if I did not live on a hill I would seriously
be considering what non-power tools I needed to store in the attic to make
it to the roof.


Colbyt


  #5   Report Post  
RicodJour
 
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Default


Colbyt wrote:
wrote in message
...
I keep hearing about people drowning in the attic.

Huh?

Didn't they notice there wasn't an egress up there?



Drown or climb. What would you do?

I would climb.

Frankly after seeing all this if I did not live on a hill I would seriously
be considering what non-power tools I needed to store in the attic to make
it to the roof.


Right. Axe, hatchet, sledge, wrecking bar in that order.

R



  #6   Report Post  
MrC1
 
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"RicodJour" wrote in message
ps.com...

Colbyt wrote:
wrote in message
...
I keep hearing about people drowning in the attic.

Huh?

Didn't they notice there wasn't an egress up there?



Drown or climb. What would you do?

I would climb.

Frankly after seeing all this if I did not live on a hill I would

seriously
be considering what non-power tools I needed to store in the attic to

make
it to the roof.


Right. Axe, hatchet, sledge, wrecking bar in that order.

R

And maybe some life jackets?


  #7   Report Post  
Goedjn
 
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Frankly after seeing all this if I did not live on a hill I would seriously
be considering what non-power tools I needed to store in the attic to make
it to the roof.


Gable vents and windows are your friend. Although I've never
understood why all roofs don't come with access hatches.
  #8   Report Post  
Colbyt
 
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"Goedjn" wrote in message
...


Frankly after seeing all this if I did not live on a hill I would

seriously
be considering what non-power tools I needed to store in the attic to

make
it to the roof.


Gable vents and windows are your friend. Although I've never
understood why all roofs don't come with access hatches.


Actually my fat butt would require big nails and a hammer to stay on top of
my 11/12 roof.

Colbyt


  #9   Report Post  
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
 
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Goedjn wrote:
Frankly after seeing all this if I did not live on a hill I would seriously
be considering what non-power tools I needed to store in the attic to make
it to the roof.


Gable vents and windows are your friend. Although I've never
understood why all roofs don't come with access hatches.



My grandfather was a roofer in the Bronx. He used to regularly cover skylights
because it was a preferred entry point for burglars.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE


  #10   Report Post  
Dr. Hardcrab
 
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Default


"Colbyt" wrote in message
news:CPpRe.296271$_o.242732@attbi_s71...

wrote in message
...
I keep hearing about people drowning in the attic.

Huh?

Didn't they notice there wasn't an egress up there?



Drown or climb. What would you do?

I would climb.

Frankly after seeing all this if I did not live on a hill I would
seriously
be considering what non-power tools I needed to store in the attic to make
it to the roof.


I'd keep a pair of plane tickets up there.......




  #11   Report Post  
JerryL
 
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Default


"Goedjn" wrote in message
...


Frankly after seeing all this if I did not live on a hill I would
seriously
be considering what non-power tools I needed to store in the attic to make
it to the roof.


Gable vents and windows are your friend. Although I've never
understood why all roofs don't come with access hatches.


Probably because they are a source of major leaks.


  #12   Report Post  
Tom
 
Posts: n/a
Default


wrote in message
...
I keep hearing about people drowning in the attic.

Huh?

Didn't they notice there wasn't an egress up there?


If they didn't drown and couldn't get out, I would imagine the heat would
get them within a few hours. About like leaving your baby buckled into a
car seat in a car in the parking lot.


  #13   Report Post  
Edwin Pawlowski
 
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Default


wrote in message
...
I dont understand this. Apparently they dont always put windows in
the attics in that area. I dont think I have ever seen a house
without one or more windows in the attic. Common sense says that when
the water is up to your chest and you are in an attic, it's time to
break a window and swim. Yet, on the news they were showing rescuers
using chainsaws and sawing thru roofs. That tells me there were no
windows.


No tall attics are meant to be habitable. Many are just a space above the
ceiling and only a small hatch to access it. Mine has gable vents, no floor
except a couple of planks down the center. If I could get there in rising
water and save my life, I'd give it a try. You get desperate when death is
very close.


  #14   Report Post  
Amun
 
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Default


wrote in message
...
I keep hearing about people drowning in the attic.

Huh?

Didn't they notice there wasn't an egress up there?



Likely they never realized the water would go up that high, and once they
got up, the water rose further and blocked the only way out.
Some people simply can't swim or are deathly afraid of being in "brackish"
water, and just didn't think.

Mind you those living in areas like New Orleans that are below water to
start with, and with plenty of advance warning a storm was approaching have
been toying with death for a long time.

Sad,....but still DUMB.


AMUN


  #15   Report Post  
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Amun wrote:
Mind you those living in areas like New Orleans that are below water to
start with, and with plenty of advance warning a storm was approaching have
been toying with death for a long time.

Sad,....but still DUMB.



It's natural selection. Those with the brains to get out did, and they get to
reproduce. Those that weren't that bright stayed, and here's the result.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE




  #16   Report Post  
JerryL
 
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Default


"

It's natural selection. Those with the brains to get out did, and they
get to reproduce. Those that weren't that bright stayed, and here's the
result.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE


Yep, those with runnable cars, those with credit cards and bank accounts
were able to flee. Those without, stayed.


  #17   Report Post  
willshak
 
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Default

On 8/31/2005 7:29 PM US(ET), Goedjn took fingers to keys, and typed the
following:

Frankly after seeing all this if I did not live on a hill I would seriously
be considering what non-power tools I needed to store in the attic to make
it to the roof.



Gable vents and windows are your friend. Although I've never
understood why all roofs don't come with access hatches.


It should be code to have one in areas that are below sea level. I
sometimes I wish that I had one to get out onto the second floor roof to
make repairs or installations, rather than using a 30' ladder. As for an
emergency exit in the case of flooding, I'm 400' above sea level and
even if all the ice caps melted all at once, I'll still be 140' above
sea level (the Tsunamis created by the sudden melting would probably get
me though).

--
Bill
  #19   Report Post  
Duane Bozarth
 
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Default

Amun wrote:

....
Even most people with no cash still have legs that they could have used to
get to higher ground a day before it hit.


Where would that have been? Almost the whole of the city is low ground
and how far would you have walked leaving your home?

Not like the hurricane just appeared without any warning.


That's true and some didn't make the prudent decision...

....

This is like the trailer park people farther north who lose their homes in
the same area year after year every time a tornado comes through, ...


And where would that be? I'm unaware of any particular location that
gets hit w/ tornadoes on an annual basis. While in "tornado alley" it's
been over 20 years since been one closer than about 1-1/2 mi of the
house. That's hardly enough that one could expect no one w/ limited
finances to not use what alternatives there are for affordable housing.
  #21   Report Post  
Duane Bozarth
 
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Default

Duane Bozarth wrote:
...
That is exactly true, either. ...

That, of course, should have been "... isn't exactly true, ..."
  #22   Report Post  
xhepera
 
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Default

That's all well and good if you have the means to do so. I'm sure that
some figured they could "ride it out." I'm equally certain that many,
many more did not leave because of lack of ability or resources to do
so.

  #23   Report Post  
Stormin Mormon
 
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Default

My grand parents used to have a very old egress. They kept in a leather
suitcase. My sister and I found it some time ago. We opened the suitcase,
and the next thing we knew, we were out of the house entirely. That was one
very mean egress.

Guess that's why they talk about means of egress?

More seriously, so you're on the second floor, and the water keeps rising.
What's the choice? Up the stairs and hope for the best, or out the window.

--

Christopher A. Young
Do good work.
It's longer in the short run
but shorter in the long run.
..
..


wrote in message
...
I keep hearing about people drowning in the attic.

Huh?

Didn't they notice there wasn't an egress up there?


  #27   Report Post  
PaPaPeng
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 17:04:19 -0400, wrote:

I keep hearing about people drowning in the attic.

Huh?

Didn't they notice there wasn't an egress up there?



When you get a few tens of people doing what appears to be irrational
things they're dismissed as stupid. But when there are something like
50,000 doing it in a time of crisis then its what people do that makes
sense for what ever reason. It then becomes the responsibility for
the officials in charge to figure out what to do to mitigate the
consequences to the victims. Lets not play the blame game.

Now even the tourist brochures use the flooding of N O as black humor
to show how high the waters would rise to drown the buildings should
the levees break. We now learn that its more than just the drowning
of buildings and its no joke.

In the run up to Katrina there was a mandatory evacuation warning.
Officiclas would know that there will be people who insist in staying
and take their chances. What wasn't anticipated was that many would
stay and that all the services would break down and incapable of being
restrored any time soon. One immediate lesson I can think of is if
people are going to stay there should be widely available information
on what should one do and what emergency supplies should one have at
hand. A thought would be to wear adequate clothing and shoes ready
for an immediate evacuation. To have an emergency pack at hand that
is no larger than a backpack for a quick exit. To have emergency
supplies in the house that will hold out for a week's isolation. This
includes drinking water, high energy waterproof packaged food. The
equivalent of a swiss army knife (China made ones cost only a couple
of bucks). A whistle, a flashlight, something that can serve as a
signalling mirror. Extra batteries for a cellphone. Some floatation
devices. Etc. I didn't see any chainsaws being used. These would
have been essential equipment to cut victims free from fallen
stuctures.

For the officials those half drowned school buses in the parking lot
should have been used for the evacuation. Its an obvious oversight
now but future disaster planning in any district should do that. It
will also be necessary to have a plan as to where to put them at the
receiving end. You can't just bus thousands of people to another town
and expect them to fend for themselves, especially when they have no
car and no money.

Anyway the events in N O and Florida have clearly shown that lots of
people will still be trapped in a storm whatever the authorities say
about getting out before the storm hits. Lets use the N O experience
to figure out how to do things better the next time round. Lets not
forget there is still two months left in the hurricane season.


  #28   Report Post  
ameijers
 
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wrote in message
...
I dont understand this. Apparently they dont always put windows in
the attics in that area. I dont think I have ever seen a house
without one or more windows in the attic.


Never seen a hip roof? You must live in an older city (pre-1950s), and not
get out much. From the post-WWII era, right up until the modern drywall
McMansion era with multiple faux gables, hip roofs (at least on one-story
houses) were considered to make the house seem more low-slung and
modern-looking. Makes the attic space (if you can call trusses an attic)
harder to vent, but what the hell, it looks sleek.

aem sends...

aem sends...

  #29   Report Post  
Chris Jung
 
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Default


"ameijers" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
I dont understand this. Apparently they dont always put windows in
the attics in that area. I dont think I have ever seen a house
without one or more windows in the attic.


Never seen a hip roof? You must live in an older city (pre-1950s), and
not
get out much. From the post-WWII era, right up until the modern drywall
McMansion era with multiple faux gables, hip roofs (at least on one-story
houses) were considered to make the house seem more low-slung and
modern-looking. Makes the attic space (if you can call trusses an attic)
harder to vent, but what the hell, it looks sleek.

Our house, a 1967 raised ranch has a hip roof. The overhang is very wide
(36") with continuous soffet venting. The roof first had an electric vent
fan and when that failed instead of replacing it, a later owner put in two
"whirly-turban vents" (can't think of what they are called). Those solutions
must be working OK since we still have the original roof and it's in pretty
darn good shape.

If somehow we were flooded (not likely as we live way up in the highland
above Ithaca NY) and had to go up to the attic to escape, I suspect we could
get through the whirly turbans or somehow punch out the old electric roof
fan.

Chris


  #30   Report Post  
 
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"For the officials those half drowned school buses in the parking lot
should have been used for the evacuation. Its an obvious oversight
now but future disaster planning in any district should do that. It
will also be necessary to have a plan as to where to put them at the
receiving end. You can't just bus thousands of people to another town
and expect them to fend for themselves, especially when they have no
car and no money"

You are absolutley right. The crybaby mayor now on TV blaming FEMA for
a slow response didn't have sense enough to use the school buses that
were sitting there fully fueled to offer free rides to anyone needing
transportation prior to the hurricane's arrival.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...lpc21109012015

But it's even worse than that. The Burboun Street bars were hosting
hurricane parties the night before the hurricane. Local TV stations
were covering the Mardi Gras like celebrations on the news. The
foolish Mayor/Governor/Police Chief allowed this to go on, which sent a
message to millions of viewers that if the bars were open, it was OK to
stay and couldn't be all that bad. Many other shore area communities
routinely make evacuation mandatory and the send emergency personnel
into neighborhoods with bull horns ordering people to leave. Had NO
officials done this, things could have been a lot different.



  #31   Report Post  
Edwin Pawlowski
 
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But it's even worse than that. The Burboun Street bars were hosting
hurricane parties the night before the hurricane. Local TV stations
were covering the Mardi Gras like celebrations on the news. The
foolish Mayor/Governor/Police Chief allowed this to go on, which sent a
message to millions of viewers that if the bars were open, it was OK to
stay and couldn't be all that bad.


And even today, people are refusing to leave. No sympathy for those.


  #32   Report Post  
keith
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 04:50:41 -0700, trader4 wrote:

"For the officials those half drowned school buses in the parking lot
should have been used for the evacuation. Its an obvious oversight
now but future disaster planning in any district should do that. It
will also be necessary to have a plan as to where to put them at the
receiving end. You can't just bus thousands of people to another town
and expect them to fend for themselves, especially when they have no
car and no money"

You are absolutley right. The crybaby mayor now on TV blaming FEMA for
a slow response didn't have sense enough to use the school buses that
were sitting there fully fueled to offer free rides to anyone needing
transportation prior to the hurricane's arrival.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...lpc21109012015


From Drudge this morning:

Louisiana disaster plan, pg 13, para 5 , dated 01/00

'The primary means of hurricane evacuation will be personal vehicles.
School and municipal buses, government-owned vehicles and vehicles
provided by volunteer agencies may be used to provide transportation
for individuals who lack transportation and require assistance in
evacuating'...

But it's even worse than that. The Burboun Street bars were hosting
hurricane parties the night before the hurricane. Local TV stations
were covering the Mardi Gras like celebrations on the news. The
foolish Mayor/Governor/Police Chief allowed this to go on, which sent a
message to millions of viewers that if the bars were open, it was OK to
stay and couldn't be all that bad. Many other shore area communities
routinely make evacuation mandatory and the send emergency personnel
into neighborhoods with bull horns ordering people to leave. Had NO
officials done this, things could have been a lot different.


Why am I not surprised.

--
Keith
  #34   Report Post  
Goedjn
 
Posts: n/a
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In the run up to Katrina there was a mandatory evacuation warning.
Officiclas would know that there will be people who insist in staying
and take their chances. What wasn't anticipated was that many would
stay and that all the services would break down and incapable of being
restrored any time soon. One immediate lesson I can think of is if
people are going to stay there should be widely available information


You mean like this?

http://www.fema.gov/library/prepandprev.shtm

What do you want them to do, come around and staple the ****ing
handout to people's foreheads?

For the officials those half drowned school buses in the parking lot
should have been used for the evacuation. Its an obvious oversight
now but future disaster planning in any district should do that. It
will also be necessary to have a plan as to where to put them at the
receiving end. You can't just bus thousands of people to another town
and expect them to fend for themselves, especially when they have no
car and no money.


And that's the only real failure I've seen, and the problem
is that you can't put your re-location/refugee camps in the
same region as the people you intend to put there, else you're
likely to loose them at the same time. Well, that and that
convincing people to GO to a concentr////refugee camp is
likely to be a tough sell.







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