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  #1   Report Post  
JJ
 
Posts: n/a
Default Cracks in new concrete driveway. Options?

Almost two weeks ago I had 3,100 sq ft of concrete poured for a driveway and
apron in front of the garage. I was told to let it cure for 7-10 days
before driving on it. We gave it 9 days before pulling one car into the
garage.

13 days after pouring, I've noticed I have 3 major cracks in 3 separate
sections. The cracks run right through the expansion joints, from one side
to the other of the drive and are spaced about 20ft apart. They are about
100ft from the garage and apron sections.

The contractor is coming over this week to check it out and I'm wondering
what demands I can make to cure this? He has not been paid yet!

What are my reasonable options to fix this?

Thanks,


  #2   Report Post  
David Martel
 
Posts: n/a
Default

JJ,

Was the contractor supposed to do all of the work involved in this
driveway or just pour the concrete? You mention not using the driveway
until it cured but not how the curing was done or who was responsible for
this. I'd guess based on what little info you provide that the driveway was
not properly cured or the ground under the driveway wasn't prepped, or the
wrong concrete was used. It needs to be completely redone. I'd suggest that
you get the contractor's insurance info and look for another contractor
unless you were doing most of the work yourself.

Dave M.


  #3   Report Post  
JJ
 
Posts: n/a
Default

No, he was hired to do all the prep work and pouring, finishing etc. They
excavated down, laid rebar etc. It looked normal to me, not that I'm an
expert. I basically live on top of a gravel pit, so no matter how far you
go down, it's all gravel/sand base. Now as far as curing, what's to be done
except stay off of it. I heard you wet it down every couple of days to help
it cure but we had rain on day 2 and day 5 after pouring. He gave me no
instructions to do anything.

"David Martel" wrote in message
nk.net...
JJ,

Was the contractor supposed to do all of the work involved in this
driveway or just pour the concrete? You mention not using the driveway
until it cured but not how the curing was done or who was responsible for
this. I'd guess based on what little info you provide that the driveway
was not properly cured or the ground under the driveway wasn't prepped, or
the wrong concrete was used. It needs to be completely redone. I'd suggest
that you get the contractor's insurance info and look for another
contractor unless you were doing most of the work yourself.

Dave M.



  #4   Report Post  
Joseph Meehan
 
Posts: n/a
Default

JJ wrote:
Almost two weeks ago I had 3,100 sq ft of concrete poured for a
driveway and apron in front of the garage. I was told to let it cure
for 7-10 days before driving on it. We gave it 9 days before pulling
one car into the garage.

13 days after pouring, I've noticed I have 3 major cracks in 3
separate sections. The cracks run right through the expansion
joints, from one side to the other of the drive


Are you saying that there is a crack at the bottom of the expansion
joint and that is your question? If so, call back the contractor apologize
and thank him for doing a good job. Those "expansion joints" are there to
provide a place for the concrete to crack, since we all know it is going to
do it the joint just provides and nice neat weak spot.

and are spaced about
20ft apart. They are about 100ft from the garage and apron sections.

The contractor is coming over this week to check it out and I'm
wondering what demands I can make to cure this? He has not been paid
yet!
What are my reasonable options to fix this?

Thanks,


--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit


  #5   Report Post  
JJ
 
Posts: n/a
Default

No Joe,
I'm saying I have 3 erratic cracks that have appeared in three different
sections of the pour. They cut expansion joints down the center of the
drive and then also cut them about every 20ft across the driveway. The
cracks run across the drive, from one side to the other, and they don't stop
at the center expansion joints, they continue across the entire width of the
drive. They are not near the horizontal expansion joints and I'm not Irish!

"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
news
JJ wrote:
Almost two weeks ago I had 3,100 sq ft of concrete poured for a
driveway and apron in front of the garage. I was told to let it cure
for 7-10 days before driving on it. We gave it 9 days before pulling
one car into the garage.

13 days after pouring, I've noticed I have 3 major cracks in 3
separate sections. The cracks run right through the expansion
joints, from one side to the other of the drive


Are you saying that there is a crack at the bottom of the expansion
joint and that is your question? If so, call back the contractor
apologize and thank him for doing a good job. Those "expansion joints"
are there to provide a place for the concrete to crack, since we all know
it is going to do it the joint just provides and nice neat weak spot.

and are spaced about
20ft apart. They are about 100ft from the garage and apron sections.

The contractor is coming over this week to check it out and I'm
wondering what demands I can make to cure this? He has not been paid
yet!
What are my reasonable options to fix this?

Thanks,


--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit





  #6   Report Post  
Edwin Pawlowski
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"JJ" wrote in message

13 days after pouring, I've noticed I have 3 major cracks in 3 separate
sections. The cracks run right through the expansion joints, from one
side to the other of the drive and are spaced about 20ft apart. They are
about 100ft from the garage and apron sections.



What are my reasonable options to fix this?


I'm not sure what you mean. The crack is at the expansion joint like it is
supposed to be? That is what the joints are for. Yes, it will go clear
through, top to bottom, side to side, as the concrete expands and contracts.
They prevent the rest of the slab from cracking. Am I missing something?
Are there other cracks in the pour?

As for demands, why demand anything until he sees it and either explains
what the joint is there for, or offers a remedy if I am mistaken in my
interpretation.


  #7   Report Post  
W. Wells
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Of what I know about concrete is that it dried too fast. Should have been
covered from the sun or kept cool with water spray. This is common with
concrete 3 inches or thicker.
"JJ" wrote in message
. ..
Almost two weeks ago I had 3,100 sq ft of concrete poured for a driveway
and apron in front of the garage. I was told to let it cure for 7-10 days
before driving on it. We gave it 9 days before pulling one car into the
garage.

13 days after pouring, I've noticed I have 3 major cracks in 3 separate
sections. The cracks run right through the expansion joints, from one
side to the other of the drive and are spaced about 20ft apart. They are
about 100ft from the garage and apron sections.

The contractor is coming over this week to check it out and I'm wondering
what demands I can make to cure this? He has not been paid yet!

What are my reasonable options to fix this?

Thanks,




  #8   Report Post  
Wes Stewart
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sun, 05 Jun 2005 18:12:59 GMT, "JJ" wrote:

No Joe,
I'm saying I have 3 erratic cracks that have appeared in three different
sections of the pour. They cut expansion joints down the center of the
drive and then also cut them about every 20ft across the driveway. The
cracks run across the drive, from one side to the other, and they don't stop
at the center expansion joints, they continue across the entire width of the
drive. They are not near the horizontal expansion joints and I'm not Irish!


What size and spacing of rebar did they ues?


  #9   Report Post  
G Henslee
 
Posts: n/a
Default

JJ wrote:
Almost two weeks ago I had 3,100 sq ft of concrete poured for a driveway and
apron in front of the garage. I was told to let it cure for 7-10 days
before driving on it. We gave it 9 days before pulling one car into the
garage.

13 days after pouring, I've noticed I have 3 major cracks in 3 separate
sections. The cracks run right through the expansion joints, from one side
to the other of the drive and are spaced about 20ft apart. They are about
100ft from the garage and apron sections.

The contractor is coming over this week to check it out and I'm wondering
what demands I can make to cure this? He has not been paid yet!

What are my reasonable options to fix this?

Thanks,



How thick is it? Were there tree roots before? Any ditches that should
have been compacted? Was there a sand base put in first? is there mesh
in the pour?
  #10   Report Post  
ok
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I'll try this one more time. I know the difference between an expansion
joint and a crack. These are 3 distinct cracks running the width of the
driveway in each case!
They excavated down over 4 inches and as I stated previously the property
is sitting on a gravel/sand base. They used the power compacters, laid
rebar. I'm going to guess the rebar was half inch diameter and the grid
work they attached to it was 4 inch square.
No tree roots.
No ditches.

"G Henslee" wrote in message
...
JJ wrote:
Almost two weeks ago I had 3,100 sq ft of concrete poured for a driveway

and
apron in front of the garage. I was told to let it cure for 7-10 days
before driving on it. We gave it 9 days before pulling one car into the
garage.

13 days after pouring, I've noticed I have 3 major cracks in 3 separate
sections. The cracks run right through the expansion joints, from one

side
to the other of the drive and are spaced about 20ft apart. They are

about
100ft from the garage and apron sections.

The contractor is coming over this week to check it out and I'm

wondering
what demands I can make to cure this? He has not been paid yet!

What are my reasonable options to fix this?

Thanks,



How thick is it? Were there tree roots before? Any ditches that should
have been compacted? Was there a sand base put in first? is there mesh
in the pour?





  #11   Report Post  
DanG
 
Posts: n/a
Default

It sounds as if the saw joints were performed too late. Saw
joints and jointer tracks are control joints. Tar joints are
expansion joints. Cold joints are construction joints.

The best dollars spent are on the preparation of the sub grade.
Good compaction, uniform slab thickness, do not allow concrete
trucks on compacted grade are all good practices. I pour most
concrete without rebar or remesh.

Rebar should not continue through joints. I would limit the
distance between saw joints to 12 feet or less. Saw joints should
be performed on the same day as the pour as soon as the slab can
be cut without raveling.

The slab should be cured. GOOD:Cure with curing compound applied
by the contractor immediately after pouring. BETTER: visqueen
cover with water trapped on the slab (this often leaves a mottled
appearance and /or visqueen printing) BEST: total immersion
accomplished by building an appropriate dam around the pour -
usually not possible on sloped drives, etc. The water cure should
be applied for +/- 7 days. Keep heavy objects (cars, trucks, etc)
off the concrete for a minimum of 3 days, preferred 7 days to
allow the concrete to make enough initial strength to deal with
the loads.

These are all givens about concrete. Here is another: Concrete
will crack. The trick is to get it to crack where you want it to,
preferably in a neat straight line. Sometimes there is just no
simple answer to why concrete cracks where it does. Heat
shrinkage, hot rebar, design mix, finishing techniques, wind, hot
sun all have profound effects on concrete.

I hope that you and your contractor can arrive at a solution that
is equitable to both of you. Remember he has a lot of time and
material in this job already. I do not guarantee concrete not to
crack, in fact, I make owners aware of the potential before hand.
I am also aware that you have money and quality expectations that
should be part of the overall resolution.

(top posted for your convenience)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)




"JJ" wrote in message
. ..
Almost two weeks ago I had 3,100 sq ft of concrete poured for a
driveway and apron in front of the garage. I was told to let it
cure for 7-10 days before driving on it. We gave it 9 days
before pulling one car into the garage.

13 days after pouring, I've noticed I have 3 major cracks in 3
separate sections. The cracks run right through the expansion
joints, from one side to the other of the drive and are spaced
about 20ft apart. They are about 100ft from the garage and
apron sections.

The contractor is coming over this week to check it out and I'm
wondering what demands I can make to cure this? He has not been
paid yet!

What are my reasonable options to fix this?

Thanks,




  #12   Report Post  
ok
 
Posts: n/a
Default

It took two days to pour the drive because of rain. The saw joints ( I was
mistakenly calling them expansion joints) were cut in on the third day.
No way not to have the concrete truck on the compacted area. It's either
that or ruin the lawn.
Perhaps the saw joints are no more than 12ft apart, plus there is one down
the center of the entire driveway. I was guessing on distance, doing this
from work.
No vehicle traffic for 9 nine days.
So he's coming tomorrow and what would be a reasonable expectation on my
part. OK, maybe all concrete will eventually crack, but jeez I didn't
expect it in two weeks.
I was doing this drive over two years and next year there is still another
250 ft of drive to pour so that gives me a little leverage... maybe.
How would you try and make me, the customer, happy?
Thanks,

"DanG" wrote in message
news:U5Koe.85405$yV4.55253@okepread03...
It sounds as if the saw joints were performed too late. Saw
joints and jointer tracks are control joints. Tar joints are
expansion joints. Cold joints are construction joints.

The best dollars spent are on the preparation of the sub grade.
Good compaction, uniform slab thickness, do not allow concrete
trucks on compacted grade are all good practices. I pour most
concrete without rebar or remesh.

Rebar should not continue through joints. I would limit the
distance between saw joints to 12 feet or less. Saw joints should
be performed on the same day as the pour as soon as the slab can
be cut without raveling.

The slab should be cured. GOOD:Cure with curing compound applied
by the contractor immediately after pouring. BETTER: visqueen
cover with water trapped on the slab (this often leaves a mottled
appearance and /or visqueen printing) BEST: total immersion
accomplished by building an appropriate dam around the pour -
usually not possible on sloped drives, etc. The water cure should
be applied for +/- 7 days. Keep heavy objects (cars, trucks, etc)
off the concrete for a minimum of 3 days, preferred 7 days to
allow the concrete to make enough initial strength to deal with
the loads.

These are all givens about concrete. Here is another: Concrete
will crack. The trick is to get it to crack where you want it to,
preferably in a neat straight line. Sometimes there is just no
simple answer to why concrete cracks where it does. Heat
shrinkage, hot rebar, design mix, finishing techniques, wind, hot
sun all have profound effects on concrete.

I hope that you and your contractor can arrive at a solution that
is equitable to both of you. Remember he has a lot of time and
material in this job already. I do not guarantee concrete not to
crack, in fact, I make owners aware of the potential before hand.
I am also aware that you have money and quality expectations that
should be part of the overall resolution.

(top posted for your convenience)



  #13   Report Post  
DanG
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Remember there are two injured parties here. His reputation, good
will, referrals and the money for this project. YOU! Try to
approach the issue together, not as adversaries. See what ideas
he may have.

Possible remedies to discuss:

Minimum, rout and caulk (pavement seal like Vulcem or SL1) the
cracks that did occur.

Maximum, remove and replace sections with cracks. Be aware, this
method has the potential for stains on the concrete and will
require either a pump or wheelbarrow pour. The end result will
surely be a different color. The cure may be worse than where you
are now.

There are epoxies made for filling the cracks and very expensive
overlay products to color the entire top.

(top posted for your convenience)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)




"ok" wrote in message
. ..
It took two days to pour the drive because of rain. The saw
joints ( I was
mistakenly calling them expansion joints) were cut in on the
third day.
No way not to have the concrete truck on the compacted area.
It's either
that or ruin the lawn.
Perhaps the saw joints are no more than 12ft apart, plus there
is one down
the center of the entire driveway. I was guessing on distance,
doing this
from work.
No vehicle traffic for 9 nine days.
So he's coming tomorrow and what would be a reasonable
expectation on my
part. OK, maybe all concrete will eventually crack, but jeez I
didn't
expect it in two weeks.
I was doing this drive over two years and next year there is
still another
250 ft of drive to pour so that gives me a little leverage...
maybe.
How would you try and make me, the customer, happy?
Thanks,

"DanG" wrote in message
news:U5Koe.85405$yV4.55253@okepread03...
It sounds as if the saw joints were performed too late. Saw
joints and jointer tracks are control joints. Tar joints are
expansion joints. Cold joints are construction joints.

The best dollars spent are on the preparation of the sub grade.
Good compaction, uniform slab thickness, do not allow concrete
trucks on compacted grade are all good practices. I pour most
concrete without rebar or remesh.

Rebar should not continue through joints. I would limit the
distance between saw joints to 12 feet or less. Saw joints
should
be performed on the same day as the pour as soon as the slab
can
be cut without raveling.

The slab should be cured. GOOD:Cure with curing compound
applied
by the contractor immediately after pouring. BETTER: visqueen
cover with water trapped on the slab (this often leaves a
mottled
appearance and /or visqueen printing) BEST: total immersion
accomplished by building an appropriate dam around the pour -
usually not possible on sloped drives, etc. The water cure
should
be applied for +/- 7 days. Keep heavy objects (cars, trucks,
etc)
off the concrete for a minimum of 3 days, preferred 7 days to
allow the concrete to make enough initial strength to deal with
the loads.

These are all givens about concrete. Here is another:
Concrete
will crack. The trick is to get it to crack where you want it
to,
preferably in a neat straight line. Sometimes there is just no
simple answer to why concrete cracks where it does. Heat
shrinkage, hot rebar, design mix, finishing techniques, wind,
hot
sun all have profound effects on concrete.

I hope that you and your contractor can arrive at a solution
that
is equitable to both of you. Remember he has a lot of time and
material in this job already. I do not guarantee concrete not
to
crack, in fact, I make owners aware of the potential before
hand.
I am also aware that you have money and quality expectations
that
should be part of the overall resolution.

(top posted for your convenience)





  #14   Report Post  
Ashton Crusher
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sun, 05 Jun 2005 18:12:59 GMT, "JJ" wrote:

No Joe,
I'm saying I have 3 erratic cracks that have appeared in three different
sections of the pour. They cut expansion joints down the center of the
drive and then also cut them about every 20ft across the driveway. The
cracks run across the drive, from one side to the other, and they don't stop
at the center expansion joints, they continue across the entire width of the
drive. They are not near the horizontal expansion joints and I'm not Irish!


There can be a lot of variation but generally speaking, concrete will
crack every 15 feet to 20 Feet if there is not a joint placed to force
a crack at the joint. If the concrete had any areas that were more
then 15 to 20 feet between joints then there is a risk of a crack
between those joints. And that's with good concrete that's cured
properly. If the concrete was low strength or didn't get a good cure
it could crack at closer spacing. You said it had steel in it but I'm
assuming it's just temperature steel, the typical mesh stuff, not real
rebar closely spaced as would be used in a true reinforced concrete
slab. True reinforced concrete slabs generally will not crack with
wide cracks at 15+ spacing but will form very small cracks every 4 to
8 feet. Temperature steel won't stop cracking, it just helps hold the
crack closed and might make the spacing a little farther apart.


"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
news
JJ wrote:
Almost two weeks ago I had 3,100 sq ft of concrete poured for a
driveway and apron in front of the garage. I was told to let it cure
for 7-10 days before driving on it. We gave it 9 days before pulling
one car into the garage.

13 days after pouring, I've noticed I have 3 major cracks in 3
separate sections. The cracks run right through the expansion
joints, from one side to the other of the drive


Are you saying that there is a crack at the bottom of the expansion
joint and that is your question? If so, call back the contractor
apologize and thank him for doing a good job. Those "expansion joints"
are there to provide a place for the concrete to crack, since we all know
it is going to do it the joint just provides and nice neat weak spot.

and are spaced about
20ft apart. They are about 100ft from the garage and apron sections.

The contractor is coming over this week to check it out and I'm
wondering what demands I can make to cure this? He has not been paid
yet!
What are my reasonable options to fix this?

Thanks,


--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit



  #15   Report Post  
ConcreteFinishing&StuccoGuy
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Slabs crack, u can try to contol them, but the simple realiuty is slabs
crack in spite of controls and strengths. Hi-test concrete is more prone to
cracks! Aside from obvious stuff like the crete being air entrained @5% and
plastized to min water content, wet or damp cure for 28 days is most
important. u can drive normal cars the next day while cure takes place.
This should hsve been damp cured with burlap sacks or a product called
'polytarp' which sprays on surfaces.
BTW, most of the concrete slab work i have seen while in the states is of
poor finish and quality, even rudimentary skills are not present. In canada
it would not even pass inspection. A lot has to do with most concrete
laborers in canda being italian or portuguese while blacks and hispanics are
used in the untied states.

--


Remove the obvious to reply. Experienced and reliable
Concrete Finishing and Synthetic Stucco application in the GTA.
"DanG" wrote in message
news:4SNoe.85422$yV4.74212@okepread03...
Remember there are two injured parties here. His reputation, good
will, referrals and the money for this project. YOU! Try to
approach the issue together, not as adversaries. See what ideas
he may have.

Possible remedies to discuss:

Minimum, rout and caulk (pavement seal like Vulcem or SL1) the
cracks that did occur.

Maximum, remove and replace sections with cracks. Be aware, this
method has the potential for stains on the concrete and will
require either a pump or wheelbarrow pour. The end result will
surely be a different color. The cure may be worse than where you
are now.

There are epoxies made for filling the cracks and very expensive
overlay products to color the entire top.

(top posted for your convenience)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)




"ok" wrote in message
. ..
It took two days to pour the drive because of rain. The saw
joints ( I was
mistakenly calling them expansion joints) were cut in on the
third day.
No way not to have the concrete truck on the compacted area.
It's either
that or ruin the lawn.
Perhaps the saw joints are no more than 12ft apart, plus there
is one down
the center of the entire driveway. I was guessing on distance,
doing this
from work.
No vehicle traffic for 9 nine days.
So he's coming tomorrow and what would be a reasonable
expectation on my
part. OK, maybe all concrete will eventually crack, but jeez I
didn't
expect it in two weeks.
I was doing this drive over two years and next year there is
still another
250 ft of drive to pour so that gives me a little leverage...
maybe.
How would you try and make me, the customer, happy?
Thanks,

"DanG" wrote in message
news:U5Koe.85405$yV4.55253@okepread03...
It sounds as if the saw joints were performed too late. Saw
joints and jointer tracks are control joints. Tar joints are
expansion joints. Cold joints are construction joints.

The best dollars spent are on the preparation of the sub grade.
Good compaction, uniform slab thickness, do not allow concrete
trucks on compacted grade are all good practices. I pour most
concrete without rebar or remesh.

Rebar should not continue through joints. I would limit the
distance between saw joints to 12 feet or less. Saw joints
should
be performed on the same day as the pour as soon as the slab
can
be cut without raveling.

The slab should be cured. GOOD:Cure with curing compound
applied
by the contractor immediately after pouring. BETTER: visqueen
cover with water trapped on the slab (this often leaves a
mottled
appearance and /or visqueen printing) BEST: total immersion
accomplished by building an appropriate dam around the pour -
usually not possible on sloped drives, etc. The water cure
should
be applied for +/- 7 days. Keep heavy objects (cars, trucks,
etc)
off the concrete for a minimum of 3 days, preferred 7 days to
allow the concrete to make enough initial strength to deal with
the loads.

These are all givens about concrete. Here is another:
Concrete
will crack. The trick is to get it to crack where you want it
to,
preferably in a neat straight line. Sometimes there is just no
simple answer to why concrete cracks where it does. Heat
shrinkage, hot rebar, design mix, finishing techniques, wind,
hot
sun all have profound effects on concrete.

I hope that you and your contractor can arrive at a solution
that
is equitable to both of you. Remember he has a lot of time and
material in this job already. I do not guarantee concrete not
to
crack, in fact, I make owners aware of the potential before
hand.
I am also aware that you have money and quality expectations
that
should be part of the overall resolution.

(top posted for your convenience)









  #16   Report Post  
G Henslee
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Asswipe...


ConcreteFinishing&StuccoGuy the Canadian "Grand Wizard" wrote:


BTW, most of the concrete slab work i have seen while in the states is of
poor finish and quality, even rudimentary skills are not present. In canada
it would not even pass inspection. A lot has to do with most concrete
laborers in canda being italian or portuguese while blacks and hispanics are
used in the untied states.

--



  #17   Report Post  
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"The saw joints ( I was mistakenly calling them expansion joints) were
cut in on the third day. No way not to have the concrete truck on the
compacted "

So you have no real expansion joints, just the saw joints? No wonder
it cracked.

  #18   Report Post  
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I guess you can get away with that attitude in Canada towards certain
minorities

  #20   Report Post  
JJ
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Met with the contractor today and it is his opinion there was a problem with
the load. The sections that cracked, he called them contraction cracks, are
all from load #3 of 5 loads so he's trying to get the cement company to pay.
We'll see.
Now as far as other things I had a chance to measure today and the saw cuts
are all 9.5 feet apart. The sections that cracked were poured at noon and
cut starting around 8am the next day.
So far the only options offered seem to be cut it out and redo with the
cement co paying for the cement and he implied him kicking in some of the
labor but I didn't push that yet. Option two was I keep any money received
from the cement co and ignore the cracks. He claims the cracks will not get
significantly larger over time. The 3 sections involved consist of around
320 sq ft. and would require wheelbarrow to pour.


"DanG" wrote in message
news:4SNoe.85422$yV4.74212@okepread03...
Remember there are two injured parties here. His reputation, good will,
referrals and the money for this project. YOU! Try to approach the issue
together, not as adversaries. See what ideas he may have.

Possible remedies to discuss:

Minimum, rout and caulk (pavement seal like Vulcem or SL1) the cracks
that did occur.

Maximum, remove and replace sections with cracks. Be aware, this method
has the potential for stains on the concrete and will require either a
pump or wheelbarrow pour. The end result will surely be a different
color. The cure may be worse than where you are now.

There are epoxies made for filling the cracks and very expensive overlay
products to color the entire top.

(top posted for your convenience)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)







  #21   Report Post  
 
Posts: n/a
Default

BTW, You are a major jackass.

  #22   Report Post  
MTLnews
 
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Has nothing to do with hispanic, black, italian, portuguese workers... It
is more the fact that many people will go with the cheapest quote, instead
of going with the licensed contracters, that hire trully skilled and
licensed help. Skilled workers cost alot more, but quite often you get what
you pay for.
Here in Montreal, I've dealt with quite a few Italian contractors, and I've
seen my share of good, and bad. The good ones do cost a bit more, however
they stand behind thier work and rarely take any money up front... I
usually go after them to pay them. They've done brick work, and even some
foundation work for me, and 20 years later, the works looks just as good as
new. No crumbling, no leaks, etc....

Cracking in Concrete can happen for various reasons, and sometimes, no
matter how much of a precaustion you take, it will happen. Nowadays, many
of the cement suppliers have alot of options, many will gladly test the
concrete from the truck before pouring to test for proper consistency, air
entraining, etc... Also offer fiber reenforced concrete for extreme weather
cases, and pours for stuff like stairs and large slabs...

The contractors competence is not dictated by the crack in such a large
pour. However how he decides to address it with the customer is the big
deciding factor.




"ConcreteFinishing&StuccoGuy" wrote in
message .. .
Slabs crack, u can try to contol them, but the simple realiuty is slabs
crack in spite of controls and strengths. Hi-test concrete is more prone

to
cracks! Aside from obvious stuff like the crete being air entrained @5%

and
plastized to min water content, wet or damp cure for 28 days is most
important. u can drive normal cars the next day while cure takes place.
This should hsve been damp cured with burlap sacks or a product called
'polytarp' which sprays on surfaces.
BTW, most of the concrete slab work i have seen while in the states is of
poor finish and quality, even rudimentary skills are not present. In

canada
it would not even pass inspection. A lot has to do with most concrete
laborers in canda being italian or portuguese while blacks and hispanics

are
used in the untied states.

--


Remove the obvious to reply. Experienced and reliable
Concrete Finishing and Synthetic Stucco application in the GTA.
"DanG" wrote in message
news:4SNoe.85422$yV4.74212@okepread03...
Remember there are two injured parties here. His reputation, good
will, referrals and the money for this project. YOU! Try to
approach the issue together, not as adversaries. See what ideas
he may have.

Possible remedies to discuss:

Minimum, rout and caulk (pavement seal like Vulcem or SL1) the
cracks that did occur.

Maximum, remove and replace sections with cracks. Be aware, this
method has the potential for stains on the concrete and will
require either a pump or wheelbarrow pour. The end result will
surely be a different color. The cure may be worse than where you
are now.

There are epoxies made for filling the cracks and very expensive
overlay products to color the entire top.

(top posted for your convenience)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)




"ok" wrote in message
. ..
It took two days to pour the drive because of rain. The saw
joints ( I was
mistakenly calling them expansion joints) were cut in on the
third day.
No way not to have the concrete truck on the compacted area.
It's either
that or ruin the lawn.
Perhaps the saw joints are no more than 12ft apart, plus there
is one down
the center of the entire driveway. I was guessing on distance,
doing this
from work.
No vehicle traffic for 9 nine days.
So he's coming tomorrow and what would be a reasonable
expectation on my
part. OK, maybe all concrete will eventually crack, but jeez I
didn't
expect it in two weeks.
I was doing this drive over two years and next year there is
still another
250 ft of drive to pour so that gives me a little leverage...
maybe.
How would you try and make me, the customer, happy?
Thanks,

"DanG" wrote in message
news:U5Koe.85405$yV4.55253@okepread03...
It sounds as if the saw joints were performed too late. Saw
joints and jointer tracks are control joints. Tar joints are
expansion joints. Cold joints are construction joints.

The best dollars spent are on the preparation of the sub grade.
Good compaction, uniform slab thickness, do not allow concrete
trucks on compacted grade are all good practices. I pour most
concrete without rebar or remesh.

Rebar should not continue through joints. I would limit the
distance between saw joints to 12 feet or less. Saw joints
should
be performed on the same day as the pour as soon as the slab
can
be cut without raveling.

The slab should be cured. GOOD:Cure with curing compound
applied
by the contractor immediately after pouring. BETTER: visqueen
cover with water trapped on the slab (this often leaves a
mottled
appearance and /or visqueen printing) BEST: total immersion
accomplished by building an appropriate dam around the pour -
usually not possible on sloped drives, etc. The water cure
should
be applied for +/- 7 days. Keep heavy objects (cars, trucks,
etc)
off the concrete for a minimum of 3 days, preferred 7 days to
allow the concrete to make enough initial strength to deal with
the loads.

These are all givens about concrete. Here is another:
Concrete
will crack. The trick is to get it to crack where you want it
to,
preferably in a neat straight line. Sometimes there is just no
simple answer to why concrete cracks where it does. Heat
shrinkage, hot rebar, design mix, finishing techniques, wind,
hot
sun all have profound effects on concrete.

I hope that you and your contractor can arrive at a solution
that
is equitable to both of you. Remember he has a lot of time and
material in this job already. I do not guarantee concrete not
to
crack, in fact, I make owners aware of the potential before
hand.
I am also aware that you have money and quality expectations
that
should be part of the overall resolution.

(top posted for your convenience)








  #24   Report Post  
 
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BTW, You are a major jackass.

Learn how to quote with that google your using, so you make sense.


Yea, my bad. Was directed at the looser racist canuck.

  #26   Report Post  
David Alexander
 
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"JJ" wrote in message
. ..

Almost two weeks ago I had 3,100 sq ft of concrete poured for a driveway
and apron in front of the garage. I was told to let it cure for 7-10 days
before driving on it. We gave it 9 days before pulling one car into the
garage.

13 days after pouring, I've noticed I have 3 major cracks in 3 separate
sections. The cracks run right through the expansion joints, from one
side to the other of the drive and are spaced about 20ft apart. They are
about 100ft from the garage and apron sections.

The contractor is coming over this week to check it out and I'm wondering
what demands I can make to cure this? He has not been paid yet!

What are my reasonable options to fix this?

Thanks,



It's refreshing to see someone actually blaming something else for cracks in
concrete rather than the ready-mix folks. I spent 20 years running a
multi-plant ready mix business, and this was one of the biggest headaches I
had to contend with. For some reason, people in this area blame the quality
of the concrete itself for any cracks that occur, even when the concrete is
poured on soft ground in hot weather with no curing and no joints.

You didn't mention the area you live in, but during this time of year,
positive curing is usually necessary because of the rapid drying that will
occur in hot weather. When concrete dries out, it no longer gains strength.
"Curing" is not simply leaving it alone for a certain period of time, but is
maintaining adequate moisture in the concrete for hydration to continue
taking place. Curing can be by use of a spray-on curing compound or using
sprinklers. Plastic sheeting also works, but discolors the concrete. When
concrete isn't properly cured, it tends to be weaker and crack more easily.
When cured properly, it develops the strength it was designed to have.

As for the cracking of the concrete, you're probably going to see more of it
than what you have right now. If you have 4-inch concrete, it tends to
crack every 10 to 15 feet over time. Ideally, contraction joints should be
sawed or tooled every 10 feet to relieve the stresses from expansion and
contraction. The cracks will then occur in straight lines that are less
objectionable. This is rarely done properly in residential concrete.

What you got in your driveway and apron is probably not uncommon in your
area. Contractors tend to do what everyone else is doing (and what they've
always done), and they have to be forced into doing it any differently. I
tried for years to get contractors to put in more joints, but was almost
completely unsuccessful in doing it. I also made a concerted effort to
promote positive curing of the concrete. I had a little success with
curing, but the vast majority of residential concrete in this area is still
not cured properly.

The cracks you describe as "major" are a cosmetic problem, not a structural
problem. Cracking is a normal part of the concreting process and is to be
expected. We can expect them and work with them by putting in sawed or
tooled joints and curing the concrete to help minimize cracking, or we can
just pour and let the concrete crack as it wants to. Either way, the
cracking will occur, and an unplanned crack is no more harmful structurally
than a planned crack.

I've tried several different ways to fix cracks that had occurred, but none
of them worked satisfactorily. Demanding that the contractor tear it out
and re-pour it is excessive since the utility of the drive and apron hasn't
been compromised. Years ago, homeowners were just happy to have a hard
surface to drive on. These days, our expectations are much higher, and we
expect that the concrete will be an attractive addition to our landscape.

If you need to research this problem on your own, a good resource is
http://www.concrete.com/Forum/Forum.htm There are also many other sources
of information about concrete on the net.

Best wishes,

David



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