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Rick Wilcox
 
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Default Folding Attic Stairs and Fire Barrier

I am installing attic stairs in my finished garage. I noticed the ceiling
is sheetrocked with 5/8" sheetrock usually associated with fire barrier. I
am tempted to attach a piece of sheetrock to the ceiling side of the
trapdoor panel of the stairs, but I think it may cause the door to become
too heavy and interfere with the operation of the door. The sheetrock would
be 22"x 53 1/2". Does anyone have some information they would like to share?


  #2   Report Post  
 
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International Residential Code, a reasonable index of what is
acceptable to code officials, says:
Separate the garage from the house with at least 1/2 inch gypsum board.
This holds for walls or ceilings.
Since the area above your particular garage appears to be more nearly
part of the garage than part of the house, an inspector might accept
gypsum board on the wall of the attic that connects with the house. I
won't predict what any given inspector willl do.

TB

  #3   Report Post  
Mikepier
 
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I don't think its necessary unless you are storing highly flammable
liquids. But if you want, just attach a piece of sheet metal on the
door.

  #4   Report Post  
The Real Tom
 
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On 13 May 2005 03:56:32 -0700, "Mikepier"
wrote:

I don't think its necessary unless you are storing highly flammable
liquids. But if you want, just attach a piece of sheet metal on the
door.



Generally having a parked car in the garage is treated as if you are
'storing highly flammable liquids' in the garage.

tom
  #5   Report Post  
Percival P. Cassidy
 
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Default

The roof space of our 30-yr-old house is continuous. I.e., there is no
wall at all between the part above the garage and the part above the
living area.

Is that a Code violation? Should we think about constructing a
fireproof/fire-resistant barrier in the roof?

Perce


On 05/13/05 06:55 am tossed the following
ingredients into the ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

International Residential Code, a reasonable index of what is
acceptable to code officials, says:
Separate the garage from the house with at least 1/2 inch gypsum board.
This holds for walls or ceilings.
Since the area above your particular garage appears to be more nearly
part of the garage than part of the house, an inspector might accept
gypsum board on the wall of the attic that connects with the house. I
won't predict what any given inspector willl do.



  #6   Report Post  
G Henslee
 
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Default

Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
The roof space of our 30-yr-old house is continuous. I.e., there is no
wall at all between the part above the garage and the part above the
living area.

Is that a Code violation? Should we think about constructing a
fireproof/fire-resistant barrier in the roof?

Perce


To provide a one-hour fire resistive seperation between the garage and
the dwelling, install drywall (5/8" type X) on the dividing wall between
the garage and house on the garage side extending up to the roof
sheathing, or drywall that same wall up and out on the ceiling of the
garage. Tape the joints.

Btw, openings between the garage and dwelling shall be provided with a
1-3/8" solid wood or metal clad door installed with a self-closing
device. Openings in one-hour resistive ceilings are permitted if
protected by a UL listed fire door.
  #7   Report Post  
Pop
 
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Default

Careful, this thread has gone into areas of techincally
correct but unnecessary "requirements" in more than one
post. Best thing to do is get the answer from the
horse's mouth, and begin at the local Code Enforcement
Office. Some things will be grandfathered, some won't,
sometimes IF you work on it you have to upgrade and
maybe something else, or if you sell it then ... and on
and on and on, and I forgot the Homeowner's Insurance
get involved, too if it's not to code. Only your CEO
will know for sure or at least have access to be able
to know for sure.

Pop


"G Henslee" wrote in message
...
Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
The roof space of our 30-yr-old house is continuous.
I.e., there is no wall at all between the part above
the garage and the part above the living area.

Is that a Code violation? Should we think about
constructing a fireproof/fire-resistant barrier in
the roof?

Perce


To provide a one-hour fire resistive seperation
between the garage and the dwelling, install drywall
(5/8" type X) on the dividing wall between the garage
and house on the garage side extending up to the roof
sheathing, or drywall that same wall up and out on
the ceiling of the garage. Tape the joints.

Btw, openings between the garage and dwelling shall
be provided with a 1-3/8" solid wood or metal clad
door installed with a self-closing device. Openings
in one-hour resistive ceilings are permitted if
protected by a UL listed fire door.



  #8   Report Post  
G Henslee
 
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Default

Pop wrote:




"G Henslee" wrote in message
...

Percival P. Cassidy wrote:

The roof space of our 30-yr-old house is continuous.
I.e., there is no wall at all between the part above
the garage and the part above the living area.

Is that a Code violation? Should we think about
constructing a fireproof/fire-resistant barrier in
the roof?

Perce


To provide a one-hour fire resistive seperation
between the garage and the dwelling, install drywall
(5/8" type X) on the dividing wall between the garage
and house on the garage side extending up to the roof
sheathing, or drywall that same wall up and out on
the ceiling of the garage. Tape the joints.

Btw, openings between the garage and dwelling shall
be provided with a 1-3/8" solid wood or metal clad
door installed with a self-closing device. Openings
in one-hour resistive ceilings are permitted if
protected by a UL listed fire door.





top posting corrected


Careful, this thread has gone into areas of techincally
correct but unnecessary "requirements" in more than one
post. Best thing to do is get the answer from the
horse's mouth, and begin at the local Code Enforcement
Office. Some things will be grandfathered, some won't,
sometimes IF you work on it you have to upgrade and
maybe something else, or if you sell it then ... and on
and on and on, and I forgot the Homeowner's Insurance
get involved, too if it's not to code. Only your CEO
will know for sure or at least have access to be able
to know for sure.

Pop



Pop,

What do you think the "local Code Enforcement Office" uses to administer
and enforce the codes 'locally'? To mention a few, ever heard of the
Uniform Building Code, International Building Code, International
Residential Code?

Among others, I've got all of those code books sitting on my desk for
referral. They *are* the horses mouth and are all or in part adopted by
governmental agencys/building departments/code enforcement departments
nationwide with regards to building codes and their enforcement of them.

When it comes to the "requirements and technicalities" regarding
housing, zoning, or public nuisance codes, as an ICBO, IBC, and CCEO
certified building, zoning, and code enforcement inspector I believe I
can give it from the horses mouth.

OTH if all I had to offer for advice was "maybe this or maybe that and
call your local inspector" then I would really have nothing to offer
here and I wouldn't.
  #9   Report Post  
Waldo
 
Posts: n/a
Default



G Henslee wrote:
Pop wrote:




"G Henslee" wrote in message
...

Percival P. Cassidy wrote:

The roof space of our 30-yr-old house is continuous. I.e., there is
no wall at all between the part above the garage and the part above
the living area.

Is that a Code violation? Should we think about constructing a
fireproof/fire-resistant barrier in the roof?

Perce


To provide a one-hour fire resistive seperation between the garage
and the dwelling, install drywall (5/8" type X) on the dividing wall
between the garage and house on the garage side extending up to the
roof sheathing, or drywall that same wall up and out on the ceiling
of the garage. Tape the joints.

Btw, openings between the garage and dwelling shall be provided with
a 1-3/8" solid wood or metal clad door installed with a self-closing
device. Openings in one-hour resistive ceilings are permitted if
protected by a UL listed fire door.






top posting corrected


Careful, this thread has gone into areas of techincally
correct but unnecessary "requirements" in more than one
post. Best thing to do is get the answer from the
horse's mouth, and begin at the local Code Enforcement
Office. Some things will be grandfathered, some won't,
sometimes IF you work on it you have to upgrade and
maybe something else, or if you sell it then ... and on
and on and on, and I forgot the Homeowner's Insurance
get involved, too if it's not to code. Only your CEO
will know for sure or at least have access to be able
to know for sure.

Pop



Pop,

What do you think the "local Code Enforcement Office" uses to administer
and enforce the codes 'locally'? To mention a few, ever heard of the
Uniform Building Code, International Building Code, International
Residential Code?

Among others, I've got all of those code books sitting on my desk for
referral. They *are* the horses mouth and are all or in part adopted by
governmental agencys/building departments/code enforcement departments
nationwide with regards to building codes and their enforcement of them.

When it comes to the "requirements and technicalities" regarding
housing, zoning, or public nuisance codes, as an ICBO, IBC, and CCEO
certified building, zoning, and code enforcement inspector I believe I
can give it from the horses mouth.

OTH if all I had to offer for advice was "maybe this or maybe that and
call your local inspector" then I would really have nothing to offer
here and I wouldn't.



Pop's statement was on the money. Different jurisdictions
can, and often will, alter the requirements of any national
code to suit their perceived needs. Your comment about a
layer of 5/8" type X would not meet the requirement for a
one hour fire separation if I recall correctly. I believe
that at least two layers of 5/8" type X is required to meet
the one hour separation. I spent 33 years in the fire
fighting and fire protection field and I don't recall one
layer meeting that requirement. I could be wrong,...it's
been a few years, and if I am, I apologize.

Waldo
  #10   Report Post  
Goedjn
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Fri, 13 May 2005 11:28:08 -0700, G Henslee
wrote:

Pop wrote:




"G Henslee" wrote in message
...

Percival P. Cassidy wrote:

The roof space of our 30-yr-old house is continuous.
I.e., there is no wall at all between the part above
the garage and the part above the living area.

Is that a Code violation? Should we think about
constructing a fireproof/fire-resistant barrier in
the roof?

Perce


To provide a one-hour fire resistive seperation
between the garage and the dwelling, install drywall
(5/8" type X) on the dividing wall between the garage
and house on the garage side extending up to the roof
sheathing, or drywall that same wall up and out on
the ceiling of the garage. Tape the joints.

Btw, openings between the garage and dwelling shall
be provided with a 1-3/8" solid wood or metal clad
door installed with a self-closing device. Openings
in one-hour resistive ceilings are permitted if
protected by a UL listed fire door.





top posting corrected


Careful, this thread has gone into areas of techincally
correct but unnecessary "requirements" in more than one
post. Best thing to do is get the answer from the
horse's mouth, and begin at the local Code Enforcement
Office. Some things will be grandfathered, some won't,
sometimes IF you work on it you have to upgrade and
maybe something else, or if you sell it then ... and on
and on and on, and I forgot the Homeowner's Insurance
get involved, too if it's not to code. Only your CEO
will know for sure or at least have access to be able
to know for sure.

Pop



Pop,

What do you think the "local Code Enforcement Office" uses to administer
and enforce the codes 'locally'? To mention a few, ever heard of the
Uniform Building Code, International Building Code, International
Residential Code?

Among others, I've got all of those code books sitting on my desk for
referral. They *are* the horses mouth and are all or in part adopted by
governmental agencys/building departments/code enforcement departments
nationwide with regards to building codes and their enforcement of them.

When it comes to the "requirements and technicalities" regarding
housing, zoning, or public nuisance codes, as an ICBO, IBC, and CCEO
certified building, zoning, and code enforcement inspector I believe I
can give it from the horses mouth.

OTH if all I had to offer for advice was "maybe this or maybe that and
call your local inspector" then I would really have nothing to offer
here and I wouldn't.




  #11   Report Post  
G Henslee
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Waldo wrote:


G Henslee wrote:

Pop wrote:




"G Henslee" wrote in message
...

Percival P. Cassidy wrote:

The roof space of our 30-yr-old house is continuous. I.e., there is
no wall at all between the part above the garage and the part above
the living area.

Is that a Code violation? Should we think about constructing a
fireproof/fire-resistant barrier in the roof?

Perce


To provide a one-hour fire resistive seperation between the garage
and the dwelling, install drywall (5/8" type X) on the dividing wall
between the garage and house on the garage side extending up to the
roof sheathing, or drywall that same wall up and out on the ceiling
of the garage. Tape the joints.

Btw, openings between the garage and dwelling shall be provided with
a 1-3/8" solid wood or metal clad door installed with a self-closing
device. Openings in one-hour resistive ceilings are permitted if
protected by a UL listed fire door.






top posting corrected


Careful, this thread has gone into areas of techincally
correct but unnecessary "requirements" in more than one
post. Best thing to do is get the answer from the
horse's mouth, and begin at the local Code Enforcement
Office. Some things will be grandfathered, some won't,
sometimes IF you work on it you have to upgrade and
maybe something else, or if you sell it then ... and on
and on and on, and I forgot the Homeowner's Insurance
get involved, too if it's not to code. Only your CEO
will know for sure or at least have access to be able
to know for sure.

Pop



Pop,

What do you think the "local Code Enforcement Office" uses to
administer and enforce the codes 'locally'? To mention a few, ever
heard of the Uniform Building Code, International Building Code,
International Residential Code?

Among others, I've got all of those code books sitting on my desk for
referral. They *are* the horses mouth and are all or in part adopted
by governmental agencys/building departments/code enforcement
departments nationwide with regards to building codes and their
enforcement of them.

When it comes to the "requirements and technicalities" regarding
housing, zoning, or public nuisance codes, as an ICBO, IBC, and CCEO
certified building, zoning, and code enforcement inspector I believe I
can give it from the horses mouth.

OTH if all I had to offer for advice was "maybe this or maybe that and
call your local inspector" then I would really have nothing to offer
here and I wouldn't.




Pop's statement was on the money.


Not really. Is he wrong to refer the OP to the locals? Of course not.
He should have done that and left it at that. I took his statement to
say that the rest of us were blowing hot air and the OP should just
contact the locals. Because he doesn't know beans about it doesn't mean
others don't. Hell, might as well just refer everyone whoever asks a
question in here to their locals, oh and google.

Different jurisdictions can, and often
will, alter the requirements of any national code to suit their
perceived needs.


You both seem to leave out one important element to that. If a
jurisdiction adopts a code they can alter it to make the code
requirements more stringent. Not less.

Your comment about a layer of 5/8" type X would not
meet the requirement for a one hour fire separation if I recall
correctly. I believe that at least two layers of 5/8" type X is required
to meet the one hour separation. I spent 33 years in the fire fighting
and fire protection field and I don't recall one layer meeting that
requirement. I could be wrong,...it's been a few years, and if I am, I
apologize.

Waldo


You're talking apples and oranges. 5/8" type X gypsum drywall - of and
by itself has a rating of 40 minutes. IBC 720.2.1.4(2)

This thread refers to a *wall*. A wall comprised of different materials
that combined have a fire resistant 'period'. Granted, walls may be
constructed using different structural members but the *wall* and not
just one element are considered to determine the rating. There are of
course other methods or materials that can used to produce a one-hour
resistance rating. In residential WOOD-framed construction, 5/8 type X
over wood studs is pretty much the standard to meet the requirement. If
you have access to the International Building Code check the tables in
Chapter 7 - 719.1(2)-14 and the material ratings in

No appology necessary.
  #12   Report Post  
HorneTD
 
Posts: n/a
Default

G Henslee wrote:
What do you think the "local Code Enforcement Office" uses to administer and enforce the codes 'locally'? To mention a few, ever heard of the Uniform Building Code, International Building Code, International Residential Code?

Among others, I've got all of those code books sitting on my desk for referral. They *are* the horses mouth and are all or in part adopted by governmental agencys/building departments/code enforcement departments nationwide with regards to building codes and their enforcement of them.

When it comes to the "requirements and technicalities" regarding housing, zoning, or public nuisance codes, as an ICBO, IBC, and CCEO certified building, zoning, and code enforcement inspector I believe I can give it from the horses mouth.

OTH if all I had to offer for advice was "maybe this or maybe that and call your local inspector" then I would really have nothing to offer here and I wouldn't.


Pop's concern is well founded. Since you are not the Authority Having
Jurisdiction (AHJ) for the code that has actually been adopted in the
OPs community your answer is nowhere near final. Fire resistive
separation may not have been required in that community when that home
was built. If the OP undertakes to do what you advise they may be
subject to permits and inspection. Adding a firewall to the structure
could cause the finished structure to be subject to enactments passed
since the home was built. An Inquiry directed to the actual AHJ may
well avoid a major expense.
--
Tom Horne
  #13   Report Post  
G Henslee
 
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Default

HorneTD wrote:
G Henslee wrote:

What do you think the "local Code Enforcement Office" uses to
administer and enforce the codes 'locally'? To mention a few, ever
heard of the Uniform Building Code, International Building Code,
International Residential Code?

Among others, I've got all of those code books sitting on my desk for
referral. They *are* the horses mouth and are all or in part adopted
by governmental agencys/building departments/code enforcement
departments nationwide with regards to building codes and their
enforcement of them.

When it comes to the "requirements and technicalities" regarding
housing, zoning, or public nuisance codes, as an ICBO, IBC, and CCEO
certified building, zoning, and code enforcement inspector I believe I
can give it from the horses mouth.

OTH if all I had to offer for advice was "maybe this or maybe that and
call your local inspector" then I would really have nothing to offer
here and I wouldn't.




Since you are not the Authority Having
Jurisdiction (AHJ) for the code that has actually been adopted in the
OPs community your answer is nowhere near final.


I never said it was final. Go back and read my reply to the OP.

Fire resistive
separation may not have been required in that community when that home
was built.


I never said it was required then. Go back and read my reply to the OP.

If the OP undertakes to do what you advise they may be
subject to permits and inspection. Adding a firewall to the structure
could cause the finished structure to be subject to enactments passed
since the home was built. An Inquiry directed to the actual AHJ may
well avoid a major expense.
--
Tom Horne


Yes, those are all possibilites. Go back and read my reply to the OP.
It just about verbatim from the IBC. That's all. Should the OP check
with the locals? Sure. Did I advise that? No. So what? That doesn't
take away from the validity or correctness of my answer as you and your
cronies want to imply. Go harp on something else.

end of subject...
  #15   Report Post  
HorneTD
 
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Default

G Henslee wrote:
Snip
Different jurisdictions can, and often
will, alter the requirements of any national code to suit their
perceived needs.


You both seem to leave out one important element to that. If a
jurisdiction adopts a code they can alter it to make the code
requirements more stringent. Not less.

That is not universally true. Virginia for instance, is a min/max
state. I such states no modification of the adopted state wide code is
permitted. There are also several states that have not adopted any
State wide codes so the local jurisdiction is free to modify a model
code in either direction including to make it more lax.
--
Tom Horne


  #17   Report Post  
Tim
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Rick Wilcox" wrote in message
...
I am installing attic stairs in my finished garage. I noticed the ceiling
is sheetrocked with 5/8" sheetrock usually associated with fire barrier. I
am tempted to attach a piece of sheetrock to the ceiling side of the
trapdoor panel of the stairs, but I think it may cause the door to become
too heavy and interfere with the operation of the door. The sheetrock would
be 22"x 53 1/2". Does anyone have some information they would like to
share?


Buy stairs with a fire-rated panel already installed. I believe Werner
attic ladders have this option.


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