My house was built in 1983 and, therefore, has GFIC circuit breakers only
for the garage and outside outlets.

I would like to have GFIC protection on my kitchen outlets as well. Can I
just buy a 15 A GFIC breaker and replace the old (non GFIC) breaker in the
main panel?

Thanks

--

Walter
The Happy Iconoclast www.rationality.net

"Walter R." wrote in message
news
My house was built in 1983 and, therefore, has GFIC circuit breakers only
for the garage and outside outlets.

I would like to have GFIC protection on my kitchen outlets as well. Can I
just buy a 15 A GFIC breaker and replace the old (non GFIC) breaker in the
main panel?

Thanks

simple answer, yes. assuming they make one that fits your panel, and they
probably do.

that said, you dont want the fridge on that circuit.

randy

Glad you mentioned the fridge. Thanks.

Maybe I should just put GFIC outlets in the kitchen, instead of using a GFIC
breaker.

--

Walter
The Happy Iconoclast www.rationality.net


"xrongor" wrote in message
...

"Walter R." wrote in message
news
My house was built in 1983 and, therefore, has GFIC circuit breakers only
for the garage and outside outlets.

I would like to have GFIC protection on my kitchen outlets as well. Can I
just buy a 15 A GFIC breaker and replace the old (non GFIC) breaker in
the main panel?

Thanks

simple answer, yes. assuming they make one that fits your panel, and they
probably do.

that said, you dont want the fridge on that circuit.

randy

In article , "Walter R." wrote:
Glad you mentioned the fridge. Thanks.

Maybe I should just put GFIC outlets in the kitchen, instead of using a GFIC
breaker.

That's probably your best bet. By the way, when you go to the hardware store
to get them, it'll work better if you ask for them by the right name: GFCI
(not GFIC). Stands for Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter. Sometimes referred to
as GFI (Ground Fault Interrupter) - same thing.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

Maybe I should just put GFIC outlets in the kitchen, instead of using a
GFIC
breaker.

GFCI breakers are expensive, full size (at least for my brand) and a general
PITA.
Unless you have a good reason not to use a GFCI outlet instead, they are the
best choice.
You know that you only need one GFCI outlet per cicuit, don't you? Make it
the first outlet on the circuit and those after it are protected.
I think it was code back in 1983 that kitchens needed two circuits, and the
refrigerator had to be on a third circuit. (Mine was done that way, also
1983, and they didn't do anything better than the bare minimum.) You might
want to check if yours was done that way before installing anything.

Sure can

You know that you only need one GFCI outlet per circuit, don't you? Make
it the first outlet on the circuit and those after it are protected.

That sound like a great idea. Question: How can I tell which one is the
*first* outlet on a circuit?


Walter
The Happy Iconoclast www.rationality.net


"toller" wrote in message
...

Maybe I should just put GFIC outlets in the kitchen, instead of using a
GFIC
breaker.

GFCI breakers are expensive, full size (at least for my brand) and a
general PITA.
Unless you have a good reason not to use a GFCI outlet instead, they are
the best choice.
You know that you only need one GFCI outlet per cicuit, don't you? Make
it the first outlet on the circuit and those after it are protected.
I think it was code back in 1983 that kitchens needed two circuits, and
the refrigerator had to be on a third circuit. (Mine was done that way,
also 1983, and they didn't do anything better than the bare minimum.) You
might want to check if yours was done that way before installing anything.

"Walter R." wrote in message
...
You know that you only need one GFCI outlet per circuit, don't you? Make
it the first outlet on the circuit and those after it are protected.

That sound like a great idea. Question: How can I tell which one is the
*first* outlet on a circuit?

if you dont know the answer to that question, you best get down to the
library and get a time life book on home wiring. there is no simple answer.
the first one is the first one and it all depends on how it was wired.
there may not even be a first one. you find this out be removing outlets
from the circuit and testing.

this is why i suggested the breaker in the first place. you seem to want
answers, not knowledge.

randy

this thread got me checking my kitchen wiring. everything else around here
was done with one buttock and it's no surprise that this was too.

there are 2 20A circuits used for outlets in the kitchen. I'm guessing that
originally neither was GFCI protected. Well the previous owners must have
decided at some point to add GFCI protection and probably just replaced an
ordinary outlet with a GFCI outlet in each circuit. I'm further guessing
that the repeated tripping caused by the refrigerator rapidly caused one of
the outlets to break. The one on that circuit is broken now. It functions
as an outlet but it doesn't provide GFCI protection (it fails the test
button) and the circuit as a whole shows an open neutral. The wiring on the
outlets looks sound, as best as i can tell given push in terminals, and the
wiring at the panel is solid, so I'm guess that that indication is caused by
the faulty GFCI outlet.

Of course this outlet is within 6 feet of the sink and so it's gonna have to
be protected... which means flipping it over to the other circuit... which
means fishing cable.... sigh....

at least i caught this before we put up all the new cabinets.

In article , "Walter R."
wrote:
You know that you only need one GFCI outlet per circuit, don't you? Make
it the first outlet on the circuit and those after it are protected.

That sound like a great idea. Question: How can I tell which one is the
*first* outlet on a circuit?

Determining which outlet in a circuit is the first one necessarily involves
exposing conductors which are (or may be) live, and is inherently hazardous.
Quite frankly - and no offense intended - if you need to ask that question,
you probably shouldn't be trying to do that yet. First, head to your local
library (or, for that matter, Home Depot or Lowe's) and get a book or two on
residential electrical wiring. This isn't brain surgery, but there's a bit
more to it than meets the eye. Nobody wants you to turn into a crispy critter.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

You know that you only need one GFCI outlet per circuit, don't you? Make
it the first outlet on the circuit and those after it are protected.

That sound like a great idea. Question: How can I tell which one is the
*first* outlet on a circuit?

The first outlet is usually the one nearest the breaker box; but not always.
You can tell the last outlet; it only has one cable going to it. And
again, you can usually figure out which is first by finding out which is
last.
You test your theory by disconnecting one wire from the outlet you think is
the first one. That will cut power to 1) the outlet in question, 2) All
outlets but the one you working on, 3) All outlets, or 4) some outlets but
not all.

I won't explain this; if you can't figure it out yourself, you shouldn't be
doing it! If it isn't the first outlet, then you just have to try another.
(Naturally you have to have the breaker off any time you might encounter a
live wire...)

I am making the assumption that the circuit has only outlets on it; but that
should be true for a properly wired kitchen.

You know that you only need one GFCI outlet per circuit, don't you? Make
it the first outlet on the circuit and those after it are protected.

That sound like a great idea. Question: How can I tell which one is the
*first* outlet on a circuit?


Disconnect one at random. Put wire nuts on everything. Turn
the breaker on, and see what works. When the answer is
"nothing", that's the first breaker.

thinking about this further.
Does current code call for 2 GFCI protected outlet circuits and an
additional one for a refrigerator?
If that's the case I need to have a new 20A circuit run for the fridge.

Hi Doug

I have followed your advice and invested in the Home Depot "Electricity
1-2-3" book and also the "Complete Wiring" by Stanley Tools. A new
challenge!

Thank you for your concern.


Walter
The Happy Iconoclast www.rationality.net


"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. ..
In article , "Walter R."
wrote:
You know that you only need one GFCI outlet per circuit, don't you? Make
it the first outlet on the circuit and those after it are protected.

That sound like a great idea. Question: How can I tell which one is the
*first* outlet on a circuit?

Determining which outlet in a circuit is the first one necessarily
involves
exposing conductors which are (or may be) live, and is inherently
hazardous.
Quite frankly - and no offense intended - if you need to ask that
question,
you probably shouldn't be trying to do that yet. First, head to your local
library (or, for that matter, Home Depot or Lowe's) and get a book or two
on
residential electrical wiring. This isn't brain surgery, but there's a bit
more to it than meets the eye. Nobody wants you to turn into a crispy
critter.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

Walter R. wrote:
My house was built in 1983 and, therefore, has GFIC circuit breakers only
for the garage and outside outlets.

I would like to have GFIC protection on my kitchen outlets as well. Can I
just buy a 15 A GFIC breaker and replace the old (non GFIC) breaker in the
main panel?

Kitchen circuits are typically 20 A, not 15. One issue with a GFCI
breaker is that the circuit must have a dedicated neutral. That's not
likely to be the case because the kitchen must have at least two
appliance circuits in addition to the dedicated appliance circuits.

In addition, GFCI outlets are less expensive than breakers now.
Assuming that the outlet isn't split between two circuits (common in
Canada) you can swap out the ordinary outlet with a GFCI outlet.

If you don't understand wiring principles and the concepts in this
thread, get professional help. Amateur tinkering with electricity is
much more dangerous than the lack of a GFCI.

CAREFUL! First outlet has minimum 2 hot and 2 neutrals. Disconnecting the
wrong one and the outlet still has power. Assume everything has power until
you "prove" otherwise.
"toller" wrote in message
...

You know that you only need one GFCI outlet per circuit, don't you?
Make
it the first outlet on the circuit and those after it are protected.

That sound like a great idea. Question: How can I tell which one is the
*first* outlet on a circuit?

The first outlet is usually the one nearest the breaker box; but not
always.
You can tell the last outlet; it only has one cable going to it. And
again, you can usually figure out which is first by finding out which is
last.
You test your theory by disconnecting one wire from the outlet you think
is the first one. That will cut power to 1) the outlet in question, 2)
All outlets but the one you working on, 3) All outlets, or 4) some outlets
but not all.

I won't explain this; if you can't figure it out yourself, you shouldn't
be doing it! If it isn't the first outlet, then you just have to try
another. (Naturally you have to have the breaker off any time you might
encounter a live wire...)

I am making the assumption that the circuit has only outlets on it; but
that should be true for a properly wired kitchen.

Refrigerator must be on its own circuit AND must not be
GFCIed. Obviously if the GFCI tripped, and was reset later,
then the refrigerator has lots of unrefrigerated food that a
human might not know about.

Same applies to a circuit used by both refrigerator and
other appliances. Another appliance tripping the circuit
could leave a refrigerator getting warm. Again, a human
safety issue solved by putting the refrigerator on its own and
not GFCIed circuit.

wrote:
thinking about this further.
Does current code call for 2 GFCI protected outlet circuits and an
additional one for a refrigerator?
If that's the case I need to have a new 20A circuit run for the fridge.

In article , Bob wrote:
Walter R. wrote:
My house was built in 1983 and, therefore, has GFIC circuit breakers only
for the garage and outside outlets.

I would like to have GFIC protection on my kitchen outlets as well. Can I
just buy a 15 A GFIC breaker and replace the old (non GFIC) breaker in the
main panel?

Kitchen circuits are typically 20 A, not 15. One issue with a GFCI
breaker is that the circuit must have a dedicated neutral. That's not
likely to be the case because the kitchen must have at least two
appliance circuits in addition to the dedicated appliance circuits.

So what? Unless the two appliance circuits are installed as a single Edison
circuit, there would be a dedicated neutral for each one. Of course, he'd need
two breakers.

In any event, he didn't say how old his home is. It may have only one
appliance circuit in the kitchen.

In addition, GFCI outlets are less expensive than breakers now.

They always have been.

Assuming that the outlet isn't split between two circuits (common in
Canada) you can swap out the ordinary outlet with a GFCI outlet.

If you don't understand wiring principles and the concepts in this
thread, get professional help. Amateur tinkering with electricity is
much more dangerous than the lack of a GFCI.

AMEN!

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

Current setup has 2 20A appliance circuits running into the kitchen.

plus (but not really applicable to this problem)
15A lighting
240V/40A oven
20A dishwasher/disposal

The problem I've got is that the circuit feeding the outlet for the
refrigerator also serves an outlet 6 ft from a sink.

So I have 2 choices as I see it.

1) switch the outlet near the sink to the other 20A circuit. Provided the
prev owners installed the new GFCI outlet as the first on in the stream that
circuit would then be GFCI protected and all outlets near the sink would be
on it. I'm gonna double check the install of that GFCI outlet to ensure
it's first.

The other circuit would then not be GFCI protected and all should be fine to
have the fridge running on it.

2) add a 20A circuit dedicated for the refrigerator and GFCI protect both of
the original 20A appliance circuits. Assuming that the GFCI outlet that
broke is first in the stream I'd just have to replace that.

(1) would certainly be easier but that would result in a single circuit
w/coffee pot, toaster, new fangled wall oven, and then incidental appliances
all on a single 20A circuit. I'm not sure what my toaster wattage is
offhand but that circuit looks overloaded to me. Further it puts an outlet
that is 6 ft. 6in from the sink on the unprotected circuit. There's more to
this than just meeting the letter of the code. I'd really rather have that
outlet on a GFCI protected circuit.

So it really look like putting in a dedicated circuit for the fridge is the
way to go.

I've run circuits before in other houses but this one's gonna be a bear.
Panel is as far from the kitchen as it could be. Truss roofing with a tiny
dangerous attic space full of unfaced insulation with roofing nails sticking
out of sheating a couple inches above your head.

Electrician coming tomorrow to give me an estimate. Sometimes just cause
you can do something doesn't always mean it's the best idea for you to do
it.

A'int owning a home grand! (yes it is )

ml

In article ZAqee.3372$Fa1.2863@fed1read02, wrote:

The problem I've got is that the circuit feeding the outlet for the
refrigerator also serves an outlet 6 ft from a sink.

So replace that outlet with a GFCI, wired to protect that outlet only and not
the rest of the circuit. No big deal. Lots easier than running a new circuit.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

On 5-May-2005, (Doug Miller) wrote:

So replace that outlet with a GFCI, wired to protect that outlet only and
not
the rest of the circuit. No big deal. Lots easier than running a new
circuit.

Ahhh Doug, this is why I post.

To do this I simply ensure that everything I want non-GFCI protected is
upstream of the outlet?
If the answer is yes I'm a buy you a beer!

ml

never mind... this is obvious now that i visualize the circuit in my head.
the circuit stays intact upstream of the GFCI device even when it trips.

thanks for the heads up
ml

In article sUqee.3375$Fa1.2076@fed1read02, wrote:
never mind... this is obvious now that i visualize the circuit in my head.
the circuit stays intact upstream of the GFCI device even when it trips.

Right - you'll need to connect the GFCI with pigtails, like this: (view in
fixed-space font such as Courier)

Black ---------------------+----------------
(incoming power) | (remainder of circuit)
White ----------------+--- ) ---------------
| |
| |
+ +
neut. hot
GFCI LINE terminals

Make no connections at the GFCI LOAD terminals. This way, if the GFCI trips,
that outlet drops power, but the rest of the circuit is unaffected.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

It's all becoming clear to me now. There are actually a pair of breakers in
these devices. One on the line and one on the load side. Both trip when
the device trips but how you wire it gives you the option of just removing
the device or additionally all of the downstream devices.

So lets say I wanted to keep the fridge outlet unprotected but wanted
everything else on the circuit protected.

It seems to me the answer is to simply wire the fridge outlet as first in
stream with an ordinary device and then make the 2nd outlet in the stream a
GFCI wired to remove itself and all downstream outlets when it trips, i.e.
using the load terminals to continue the downstream circuit rather than
using the pigtail method you described.

One question though. It's not immediately obvious how the GFCI device
sensor is isolated from the current surges when the fridge compressor comes
on. Won't this trip the device? True the outlet to the fridge will still
supply power and keep your food from rotting but won't you be having to
constantly reset the time on coffee makers etc that are on the protected leg
of the circuit.

thank you for all your help
ml

Ahh reality rears it's ugly head.

Fridge outlet is last in the stream.

Hmmm let's see... add a box to splice a new piece of cable to the existing
one from the panel so I can make the fridge outlet first in the stream or
just make the two outlets GFCI devices wired to just remove themselves......

think that one answers itself....

ml

In article MEree.3385$Fa1.1287@fed1read02, wrote:
It's all becoming clear to me now. There are actually a pair of breakers in
these devices. One on the line and one on the load side. Both trip when
the device trips but how you wire it gives you the option of just removing
the device or additionally all of the downstream devices.

No, that is not correct. There is one interrupter that simultaneously
disconnects the LOAD terminals and the outlet itself.

So lets say I wanted to keep the fridge outlet unprotected but wanted
everything else on the circuit protected.

It seems to me the answer is to simply wire the fridge outlet as first in
stream with an ordinary device and then make the 2nd outlet in the stream a
GFCI wired to remove itself and all downstream outlets when it trips, i.e.
using the load terminals to continue the downstream circuit rather than
using the pigtail method you described.

That is correct.

One question though. It's not immediately obvious how the GFCI device
sensor is isolated from the current surges when the fridge compressor comes
on. Won't this trip the device?

I doubt it.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

Walter R. wrote:

My house was built in 1983 and, therefore, has GFIC circuit breakers only
for the garage and outside outlets.

I would like to have GFIC protection on my kitchen outlets as well. Can I
just buy a 15 A GFIC breaker and replace the old (non GFIC) breaker in the
main panel?

The following discussion talks about GFCIs as if they are circuit
breakers rated for 15 or 20 amps. But a GFCI does not trip at the
rated current, it simply is designed to carry that amount of current.

GFCI trip when there is a imbalance of current between the two
conductors. This can be caused by you touching one side or the other
while standing in a puddle of water. They are very sensitive and I
believe the test button just connects a 10K resistor to ground.

So, I don't see why any special provisions need to be made for a frige
although you may want it to be the only thing on a breaker circuit
because of compressor motor start-up transient current draw.

It would be most unfortunate to wake up in the morning to find your GFI
had tripped the evening before, for whatever reason.

It would probably be a lot like the time the start relay on my
compressor failed one night, and I woke up the next morning to find a
small pond from the melted ice all over my formerly unwarped parquet
floor.

All done.
2 GFCI's outlets followed by a non-GFCI outlet for the fridge.
All is working perfectly.
Thank you Doug for your accurate advice and putting up w/my questions.
You probably saved me in the neighborhood of $500 today.

ml

ps. The refrigerator compressor kicking on is not tripping the upstream
GFCI's.

In article xtvee.3406$Fa1.29@fed1read02, wrote:
All done.
2 GFCI's outlets followed by a non-GFCI outlet for the fridge.
All is working perfectly.

Great!

Thank you Doug for your accurate advice and putting up w/my questions.

You're welcome. Glad to help.

You probably saved me in the neighborhood of $500 today.

My bill is in the mail. :-)


--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

simple answer, yes. assuming they make one that fits your panel, and they
probably do.

that said, you dont want the fridge on that circuit.

Why would you not want the fridge on that circuit? In fact as far as that
goes if money were not an issue and you did not care what breakers cost why
would you not use all GFCI breakers for the entire house?

Joe

1. You want a GFI to trip and shut down your smoke alarms?
2. You want a GFI to trip and destroy all the food in your fridge?

My house is only 6 years old so I have these breakers in my kitchen and
bathrooms and they have never once tripped which tells me they have a very
low false trip rate so if you do not care about the expense of installing
them why not use them as they may save someone in a very bizarre situation.
Joe

"Matt" wrote in message
oups.com...
1. You want a GFI to trip and shut down your smoke alarms?
2. You want a GFI to trip and destroy all the food in your fridge?

My house is only 6 years old so I have these breakers in my kitchen
and
bathrooms and they have never once tripped which tells me they have a
very
low false trip rate so if you do not care about the expense of
installing
them why not use them as they may save someone in a very bizarre
situation.


Yes, they may save someone in a very bizarre situation. But other than
the very bizarre situations that you are concerned about, I'm
comfortable using them only where they are most likely needed, and
hesitate to put them into applications where they are not.

Because as I pointed out they may kill you too which is why its
completely against code to put smoke alarms on a circuit protected by a
GFI but if you want to wake up to a fridge full of rotten food and ice
melted all over the floor or perhaps not be alerted to a fire well then
go right ahead and put GFIs wherever you want in fact you could even
replace every outlet with a GFI AND replace every breaker with a GFI
breaker just to be extra extra safe after all it is America and it is
your house well technically I suppose its probably the banks house but
go right ahead and do what you want its possible they make GFI switches
too and you could also replace all your switches with GFIs and maybe
too you could only buy light fixtures with built in GFIs and then this
way you are getting like backups to backups to backups to backups and
your house will be really really safe and protected against really
bizarre situations.

Unless of course, the misuse of a GFI kills you.

That would be completely different.

And - it would be really bizarre.

Dude I am not trying to argue with you I am just trying to understand the
reasoning. You say code prevents smoke alarms from being on a GFCI circuit.
OK. By this reasoning it is more likely that a smoke alarm would be made
inoperative from a false trigger when your house is on fire than something
actually accruing on that line to trigger the GFCI to shut down and turn
off the smoke alarm. By this same reasoning it would be more likely that a
GFCI would falsely trigger and shut down the refrigerator causing spoiled
food and someone eating it and dieing than the breaker correctly triggering
in that circuit and saving someone's life.
Granted all of these would be very bizarre situations but if the cost of
doing it were not an issue I am having a hard time understanding the reason
not just use the a GFCI breaker on every circuit in the house. Do they false
trigger that often? They have not for me.

Joe

"Matt" wrote in message
oups.com...
My house is only 6 years old so I have these breakers in my kitchen
and
bathrooms and they have never once tripped which tells me they have a
very
low false trip rate so if you do not care about the expense of
installing
them why not use them as they may save someone in a very bizarre
situation.


Yes, they may save someone in a very bizarre situation. But other than
the very bizarre situations that you are concerned about, I'm
comfortable using them only where they are most likely needed, and
hesitate to put them into applications where they are not.

Because as I pointed out they may kill you too which is why its
completely against code to put smoke alarms on a circuit protected by a
GFI but if you want to wake up to a fridge full of rotten food and ice
melted all over the floor or perhaps not be alerted to a fire well then
go right ahead and put GFIs wherever you want in fact you could even
replace every outlet with a GFI AND replace every breaker with a GFI
breaker just to be extra extra safe after all it is America and it is
your house well technically I suppose its probably the banks house but
go right ahead and do what you want its possible they make GFI switches
too and you could also replace all your switches with GFIs and maybe
too you could only buy light fixtures with built in GFIs and then this
way you are getting like backups to backups to backups to backups and
your house will be really really safe and protected against really
bizarre situations.

Unless of course, the misuse of a GFI kills you.

That would be completely different.

And - it would be really bizarre.

Joe,

It's not an issue of how often they false trigger, or if they ever
false trigger at all.

If you want to put a GFI on your fridge circuit - go ahead. There used
to be a guy here named Tom Horne, and he had every version of the NEC
ever released memorized.

He could tell you if there are any rules in the NEC that prohibit the
use of a GFI on EVERY circuit, specifically on the utility circuits in
your kitchen. I think Doug's constant posting of complete crap made Tom
lose hope though, I havn't seen him post here in a long time.

I can tell you that as *I recall* (from the period I worked full time
as an apprentice electrician, regardless of the people who will insist
I am a plumber, or am not at all qualified in any way to comment on
electricity or electrical related items) in a house your age the smoke
alarms *should* have been wired on a dedicated circuit, and they
*should* also all have a third conductor which causes all of them to
fire if any one of them fires.

I say this to you because *if* your smokes are all on one circuit - and
*if* (for whatever reason) the GFI you put in that circuit trips - the
chances are VERY GOOD that you won't notice it.

And in this situation, you have turned a life saving device into a life
taking device.

On Wed, 04 May 2005 19:36:53 GMT, "Walter R."
wrote:

Glad you mentioned the fridge. Thanks.

Maybe I should just put GFIC outlets in the kitchen, instead of using a GFIC
breaker.


Tends to be cheaper that way.

if you find the first outlet, you can protect all the down stream
devices. I would makesure that you use a 15a gfci receptacle, only if
it has a 20a passthru for your small applicance circuit.

scratching head Did they have "20amp small applicance circuits"
back then?

tom

doing it were not an issue I am having a hard time understanding the reason
not just use the a GFCI breaker on every circuit in the house. Do they false
trigger that often? They have not for me.


No, they don't false trigger all that often, but they don't safe lives
all that often either. In the absence of water or other
excacerbating circumstances, it's actually pretty rare for an
electrical fault to do anything other than give someone a painful
shock. So the point isn't than the negatives of a GFCI are
big, it's that, while they're small, the positives aren't necessarily
bigger. Even when numbers are really, really small, some of them
are bigger than others.