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#1
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Electrical problem in garage
Problem: I am getting shocks on the aluminum siding of my garage.
Background: I have a single 12/2 romex wire running from from my house feeding my garage. In the garage, it goes into a junction box, where the lights for the garage are connected. The feed into the junction box is only 2 wires, there is no ground. I consulted an electrician (relative) and he suggested to run a copper wire (6 wire?) from the junction box to a grounding rod, and sink the rod into the ground. I did this, and am still getting shocks. I checked where the feed enters the garage, thinking maybe the wire is nicked, but it is not. Any other suggestions, before I replace the feed wire (underground)? |
#2
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Possibly a fastener of the siding itself has punctured an NM cable.
bill wrote in message ups.com... Problem: I am getting shocks on the aluminum siding of my garage. Background: I have a single 12/2 romex wire running from from my house feeding my garage. In the garage, it goes into a junction box, where the lights for the garage are connected. The feed into the junction box is only 2 wires, there is no ground. I consulted an electrician (relative) and he suggested to run a copper wire (6 wire?) from the junction box to a grounding rod, and sink the rod into the ground. I did this, and am still getting shocks. I checked where the feed enters the garage, thinking maybe the wire is nicked, but it is not. Any other suggestions, before I replace the feed wire (underground)? |
#3
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bill a wrote:
Possibly a fastener of the siding itself has punctured an NM cable. bill Sidenote: all wiring in the garage has been pulled, and the single wire feeding the lights is fastened to a single stud inside the garage. |
#4
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wrote:
bill a wrote: Possibly a fastener of the siding itself has punctured an NM cable. bill Sidenote: all wiring in the garage has been pulled, and the single wire feeding the lights is fastened to a single stud inside the garage. The first thing you do is make sure the shocks are coming from this source. Kill the power to the wire from the house and see if you're still getting the shocks. If you are, then suspect a buried service that you don't know about. Chip C |
#5
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I do not get the shocks when killing power to the garage, via the
appropriate breaker in the panel. |
#6
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I am not sure if putting in a separate ground rod is up to code. I
suspect it is not, but others can tell you better. Since you say the feed comes underground, I assume that this is a detached garage, entirely separate from the main house. And when you say "12/2 romex", I assume you mean direct burial UF cable, typically gray, with heavy rubber insulation, right? You probably have a short somewhere in your garage, not in the feed itself. I would shut off the power to the circuit at the main panel, then poke around with a multimeter. You should be able to see continuity from the hot or neutral to the AL siding in your junction box. From there, start disconnecting wires and try to pin down which leg of the circuit has the short. Could be someone put a nail through the siding and into the romex in the walls. Or you got some wear or nics where a wire goes through the siding on the way to an exterior light, or something. -Kevin |
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#8
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wrote in message ups.com... Problem: I am getting shocks on the aluminum siding of my garage. Background: I have a single 12/2 romex wire running from from my house feeding my garage. In the garage, it goes into a junction box, where the lights for the garage are connected. The feed into the junction box is only 2 wires, there is no ground. I consulted an electrician (relative) and he suggested to run a copper wire (6 wire?) from the junction box to a grounding rod, and sink the rod into the ground. I did this, and am still getting shocks. I checked where the feed enters the garage, thinking maybe the wire is nicked, but it is not. Any other suggestions, before I replace the feed wire (underground)? Does your relative have a vested interest in your death? (life insurance for example) Consider discussing electrical issues with some one else in the future. What is described is a ground loop which is expressly prohibited by the NEC. I will not labor the point of "supplemental grounding" because you do not have a ground conductor. Some one else suggested that the sheath of the romex may have been pentertated buy a fastener for the siding. This is a good clue and may end up leading you to the exact cause. A VOM or continuity tester on a dead circuit may help you discover the area of the problem. Your going to have to open secitons of the wiring until you find the problem. Good luck finding the problem. |
#9
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Basic electrical theory 101. You already confirmed that when you kill
the feed, the problem goes away. So now move to the next step. Shut the power and at the junction box disconnect the wiring where the feed is connected to your lights, so you isolate the problem. Turn the power back on to see if you still get shocks. If no, skip to step 2 at the bottom. Otherwise shut the power and remove the feed from the junction box. It could be shorting on the romex clamp. If you still get a shock, it's something underground. Step 2: check your lighting circuits to see if anything is shorted. Disconnect all the wiring and connect 1 light at a time to see where the problem is coming from. |
#11
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#12
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I don't understand why you have no ground, 12/2 Romex has a third wire
for ground, does it not? Otherwise I argree with Mikepier Mark |
#13
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Check your grounds and neutrals connections back at the main box.
also continuity of your 12/2 neutral wire. A burned or dirty connection there or bad neutral could cause power to seek the path of least resistance back to ground, your metal siding. If his neutral connection was so bad that going through siding and him was the best path, then he would certainly notice that the lights were not very bright! |
#14
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Mark wrote:
I don't understand why you have no ground, 12/2 Romex has a third wire for ground, does it not? 12/2 w/G does, but there certainly exists 12/2 w/o as well... |
#15
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Duane Bozarth wrote: Mark wrote: 12/2 w/G does, but there certainly exists 12/2 w/o as well... True. My house had some ungrounded 12/2 which I have since replaced. |
#16
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In article , "toller" wrote:
Check your grounds and neutrals connections back at the main box. also continuity of your 12/2 neutral wire. A burned or dirty connection there or bad neutral could cause power to seek the path of least resistance back to ground, your metal siding. If his neutral connection was so bad that going through siding and him was the best path, then he would certainly notice that the lights were not very bright! It clearly was not the best path: he's still alive to ask questions. Equally clearly, there was an alternative path; otherwise, none of the lights would have worked at all unless someone was standing there touching the siding. It doesn't have to be the *best* path to get a shock off of it. It just has to be *a* path. -- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com) Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt. And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time? |
#17
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You have some good tips on locating the source of your short. I would like
to point out that every electrical circuit should have a "GROUND". In fact, if it's a detached garage, I don't believe an under ground feed is within code, unless it supplies a sub panel with a legitimate grounding rod buried 6-8 ft deep? Some other qualified electricians may be able to shed more light on this. wrote in message ups.com... Problem: I am getting shocks on the aluminum siding of my garage. Background: I have a single 12/2 romex wire running from from my house feeding my garage. In the garage, it goes into a junction box, where the lights for the garage are connected. The feed into the junction box is only 2 wires, there is no ground. I consulted an electrician (relative) and he suggested to run a copper wire (6 wire?) from the junction box to a grounding rod, and sink the rod into the ground. I did this, and am still getting shocks. I checked where the feed enters the garage, thinking maybe the wire is nicked, but it is not. Any other suggestions, before I replace the feed wire (underground)? |
#18
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Mark wrote:
I don't understand why you have no ground, 12/2 Romex has a third wire for ground, does it not? Otherwise I argree with Mikepier Mark When non metallic cable was first manufactured it did no have a ground wire in the cable assembly. That includes both underground feeder, type UF, and Nonmetallic Sheathed Cable, type NM. -- Tom H |
#19
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Beeper wrote:
wrote in message ups.com... Problem: I am getting shocks on the aluminum siding of my garage. Background: I have a single 12/2 romex wire running from from my house feeding my garage. In the garage, it goes into a junction box, where the lights for the garage are connected. The feed into the junction box is only 2 wires, there is no ground. I consulted an electrician (relative) and he suggested to run a copper wire (6 wire?) from the junction box to a grounding rod, and sink the rod into the ground. I did this, and am still getting shocks. I checked where the feed enters the garage, thinking maybe the wire is nicked, but it is not. Any other suggestions, before I replace the feed wire (underground)? You have some good tips on locating the source of your short. I would like to point out that every electrical circuit should have a "GROUND". In fact, if it's a detached garage, I don't believe an under ground feed is within code, unless it supplies a sub panel with a legitimate grounding rod buried 6-8 ft deep? Some other qualified electricians may be able to shed more light on this. If a structure is supplied by a single branch circuit no Grounding Electrode System is required. There is also no requirement to have a panel in a residential garage. A detached garage on non residential property would have to have a building disconnecting means and one way to provide that is to install a panel that is suitable for use as service equipment and has a main breaker or contains six or fewer breakers. -- Tom H |
#20
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Thanks for the info. It is good to know.
"Takoma Park Volunteer Fire Department Postmaster" wrote in message news:0fZ7e.12981$Zn3.1026@trnddc02... Beeper wrote: wrote in message ups.com... Problem: I am getting shocks on the aluminum siding of my garage. Background: I have a single 12/2 romex wire running from from my house feeding my garage. In the garage, it goes into a junction box, where the lights for the garage are connected. The feed into the junction box is only 2 wires, there is no ground. I consulted an electrician (relative) and he suggested to run a copper wire (6 wire?) from the junction box to a grounding rod, and sink the rod into the ground. I did this, and am still getting shocks. I checked where the feed enters the garage, thinking maybe the wire is nicked, but it is not. Any other suggestions, before I replace the feed wire (underground)? You have some good tips on locating the source of your short. I would like to point out that every electrical circuit should have a "GROUND". In fact, if it's a detached garage, I don't believe an under ground feed is within code, unless it supplies a sub panel with a legitimate grounding rod buried 6-8 ft deep? Some other qualified electricians may be able to shed more light on this. If a structure is supplied by a single branch circuit no Grounding Electrode System is required. There is also no requirement to have a panel in a residential garage. A detached garage on non residential property would have to have a building disconnecting means and one way to provide that is to install a panel that is suitable for use as service equipment and has a main breaker or contains six or fewer breakers. -- Tom H |
#21
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Check your grounds and neutrals connections back at the main box.
also continuity of your 12/2 neutral wire. A burned or dirty connection there or bad neutral could cause power to seek the path of least resistance back to ground, your metal siding. If his neutral connection was so bad that going through siding and him was the best path, then he would certainly notice that the lights were not very bright! |
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