I replaced my 20 year old HVAC two years ago; and got a 10 year extended
warranty. Since then I have had the furnace cleaned each winter.

Today I got a post card from the installer recommending that I get
maintenance on the A/C. I have always thought that A/C didn't need
anything as long as it was working okay. Is preventive maintenance
necessary?

PM usually consists of cleaning the evaporator coil, cleaning the drip pan
and its drain, and replacing air filters. Other types of deterioration can
also be spotted early when it is easy to fix (like damage to insulation or
caulking).

Its like a car, you can change your own oil and air filter or pay somebody
$100 to do it for you.

An extended warranty is easier to enforce when you can show it was
properly/professionally maintained yearly but is probably not required. You
may do a better job yourself but a stack of reciepts is hard proof if they
try to say that a warranty repair is not because it was not maintained
properly (for example: frozen coil jams up fan and causes motor to overheat
because filter was clogged with dirt)

TIP: A whole house warranty may be lots cheaper than individual warranties
for each appliance. Many of these warranties cover plumbing, electrical and
mechanical systems for the same low deductable and plan and you only have to
deal with one company.




"toller" wrote in message
...
I replaced my 20 year old HVAC two years ago; and got a 10 year extended
warranty. Since then I have had the furnace cleaned each winter.

Today I got a post card from the installer recommending that I get
maintenance on the A/C. I have always thought that A/C didn't need
anything as long as it was working okay. Is preventive maintenance
necessary?

Toller

EVERY extended parts warranty and Parts and Labor warranty that I have
ever seen or sold REQUIRES regular PM to remain in force. If you have
a major failure of your car and you have no PM records the warranty may
be voided. Same thing with heat pumps and ACs. You probably need to
check it at least once per year. Every other year would be better than
nothing. Your heat & AC probably runs more than your car, you should
take as much care of it as you do of your car.

Stretch

With my contract they clean the coil , change air filter, oil motor,
check freon , amp draw, condensate drain, safety shutoff and coil air
temp drop. [ If I am there ]

It saved my unit once the Capacitor just failed on spring startup,
labor was then free, capacitor 35$ ? and out of warranty by 10 yrs .
Worth it if they do everything, be there when they do it. Being low on
freon you loose efficiency , amp draw showes compressor life left ,
clean drains prevent backup and mold, temp drop shows if it is working
100% , saftey shutoff prevents flooding attic if drain is clogged .

Good to know while in warranty and to be prepared if there is a leak
or compressor going bad before the 10 years are up. I get a check list
of amp draw, temps, freon pressure etc.

My deal is a 5 yr contract for apx 60$ a year not a service call. This
way they come in spring and it is cheaper.

"toller" wrote in message
...
I replaced my 20 year old HVAC two years ago; and got a 10 year extended
warranty. Since then I have had the furnace cleaned each winter.

Today I got a post card from the installer recommending that I get maintenance
on the A/C. I have always thought that A/C didn't need anything as long as
it was working okay. Is preventive maintenance necessary?

This is Turtle.

Well the Answer come in the form of a question.

If you have your car or truck serviced by the dealer where you bought it from.
Yes you should have your hvac system serviced by the dealer that sold it to you.

If you service your car or truck yourself and do all the service need to your
car or truck your self. You need to learn to do your service work to your hvac
system yourself also for you can learn to service your hvac system just like
your car. Now you can't just not let thing do as to doing them on a timely
manner. It will take some time and effort but you can do it your self.

Now 90% of the people will not take the time to do it right and just let too
much go that should be done like on your car or truck.


Now as to your question of maintainance of your hvac system really needed. If
your car or truck need maintainance so does your hvac system.

TURTLE

Turtle so people that want to do an anual check up to their stuff should
go buy gauges and amp meters etc and take a class-classes to learn!

Wake up Turtle

"m Ransley" wrote in message
...
With my contract they clean the coil , change air filter, oil motor,
check freon , amp draw, condensate drain, safety shutoff and "coil air
temp drop." [ If I am there ]

It saved my unit once the Capacitor just failed on spring startup,
labor was then free, capacitor 35$ ? and out of warranty by 10 yrs .
Worth it if they do everything, be there when they do it. Being low on
freon you loose efficiency , amp draw shows compressor life left ,
clean drains prevent backup and mold,

(temp drop shows if it is working 100%,) (?)
You have to take a Wet Bulb reading to get the latent heat load that does
NOT result in a temperature drop through the DX-Coil.
The temperature drop "for various latent Vs sensible heat-loads" can vary
from say 14 to 28-degrees depending on the Unit's engineered design and the
percent of relative humidity (the latent heat load)!

An easier way for the A/C owner is to take the outdoor condenser split, as
the heat it discharges contains both the latent and sensible heat-loads.
This would provide all A/C owner's with a ball park check on the Design
Performance of their Ac system.
On (flat-top table-top) discharge condensers' you can use the head-pressure
temperature reading on your gauges' for the air discharge temp.

Manufacturer's should be required to list the normal condenser split
perimeters, and the CFM of the condenser.
The power factor of the condenser's motors should also be listed with the
math formula for techs to use with their calculator. - udarrell
-- --
"What Percent of its Designed EER, SEER, and BTUH is your Air Conditioner
delivering?"
Get what you paid for, -- Crank it up to specs!
http://www.udarrell.com/air-conditio...city-seer.html

Just my opinion. I would pay them to come in and do the maintenance, but I
would be sure to be loking over their shoulder so I can do it myself the
next time. Don't be afraid to ask questions about DIY. Sometimes you get a
repair/maintenance person that is more than willing to share his/her
knowledge with you. If they talk over your head as udarrell did, ask them to
explain it in simpler terms. Some will, Some can't.
"toller" wrote in message
...
I replaced my 20 year old HVAC two years ago; and got a 10 year extended
warranty. Since then I have had the furnace cleaned each winter.

Today I got a post card from the installer recommending that I get
maintenance on the A/C. I have always thought that A/C didn't need
anything as long as it was working okay. Is preventive maintenance
necessary?

"m Ransley" wrote in message
...
Turtle so people that want to do an anual check up to their stuff should
go buy gauges and amp meters etc and take a class-classes to learn!

Wake up Turtle


This is Turtle.

I am awake , but the answer to his question come in the form of a question. The
ideal of buying the tools is nothing but going to classes to learn how to do
this service is something. Well when a person checks on this. that is the end of
it.

TURTLE

I would like to know how to check out my stuff but I know gauges are not
cheap for freon. Keeping an eye on equipment can save on repairs if you
know what to look for and keep equipment from dying early, and save on
electriciy

m Ransley wrote:
I would like to know how to check out my stuff but I know gauges are not
cheap for freon. Keeping an eye on equipment can save on repairs if you
know what to look for and keep equipment from dying early, and save on
electriciy


Wouldn't make any difference if they were
expensive. Two or three visits would pay for
them. OTOH, the is about home units, so what's to
maintain? you keep the outdoor unit clean, you
oil the motor, and you clean the indoor unit.
Doesn't require any guages or any extensive
knowledge. You know or suspect something is
screwy when cooling capacity diminishes. Up to
that point, there is no need to check the freon.
We had our A/C unit for 15 + years before it was
ever checked (free). He oiled the compressor
motor, told us the relay (about $200) needed to be
replaced, the motor was wearing out (amp draw was
low) and cleaned the inside unit. Four years
later, my wife heard a funny noise and insisted we
call a guy. He oiled the motor, added about 1/2
pound of gas (note that is all that was ever
replaced in 25 years) and didn't mention any other
problem.

Admittedly the unit receives light duty compared
to units in the south. We think it is terrible if
the unit needs to on at night (3-10 days a year)
and if the unit is on for more than 6 hours a day
for possibly 50 days total a year.

What I don't understand about checking gas
pressures, is that if the unit if functioning
well, why have any concerns? One doesn't do that
for other electrical equipment.

Doing it yourself depends on what you are doing yourself. I carry
about $7,000 in tools om my truck I also have 25 years experience
using them. Checking freon requires EPA certification. Doing it right
requires gauges, accurate thermometer and sling psychrometer as well as
manufacturer supplied charging charts for each brand of equipment. You
can't get that watching the tech unless he is a dope and doing it
wrong. Then you will learn how to do it wrong. GOOD DEAL!! Get a
competant tech to do it right. You will spend a lot more to do it
right yourself than it will cost to hire someone to do it right. Of
course if you hardly ever use it, you will not need to check it as
often. Improper charge uses more electricity and produces less
cooling. The money you save will be spent with the power company.
Better you do whatever you do well (accounting or whatever) and pay
HVAC contractor to do what he does well.


Stretch

PS I spend a lot of money on an accountant to do my company taxes. He
pays me to do his AC & Heat work. He does taxes better, I do heating &
AC better. We are BOTH better off!

"George E. Cawthon" wrote in message
...
m Ransley wrote:
I would like to know how to check out my stuff but I know gauges are not
cheap for freon. Keeping an eye on equipment can save on repairs if you
know what to look for and keep equipment from dying early, and save on
electriciy


Wouldn't make any difference if they were expensive. Two or three visits
would pay for them. OTOH, the is about home units, so what's to maintain?
you keep the outdoor unit clean, you oil the motor, and you clean the indoor
unit. Doesn't require any guages or any extensive knowledge. You know or
suspect something is screwy when cooling capacity diminishes. Up to that
point, there is no need to check the freon. We had our A/C unit for 15 + years
before it was ever checked (free). He oiled the compressor motor, told us the
relay (about $200) needed to be replaced, the motor was wearing out (amp draw
was low) and cleaned the inside unit. Four years later, my wife heard a
funny noise and insisted we call a guy. He oiled the motor, added about 1/2
pound of gas (note that is all that was ever replaced in 25 years) and didn't
mention any other problem.

Admittedly the unit receives light duty compared to units in the south. We
think it is terrible if the unit needs to on at night (3-10 days a year) and
if the unit is on for more than 6 hours a day for possibly 50 days total a
year.

What I don't understand about checking gas pressures, is that if the unit if
functioning well, why have any concerns? One doesn't do that for other
electrical equipment.

This is Turtle.

Here in Louisiana we don't run our cooling units but maybe about 50 days or less
out of the year. i have done No Cooling Calls on Christmas Day and New Years.

One can check the charge of freon after you do the regular stuff on the service.
Take the wall therometer and get the temperature of the air coming out of the
discharge grills and the get the temperature of the return air grills. Then
subtract one from the other and you should get atleast 15ºF to 20ºF differencial
or more. anything less than 15ºF differencial which this show a problem.
Anything less than 10ºF shows really a problem. Now ambiant of outdoor temp must
be above 75ºF.

TURTLE

stretch wrote:
Doing it yourself depends on what you are doing yourself. I carry
about $7,000 in tools om my truck I also have 25 years experience
using them. Checking freon requires EPA certification. Doing it right
requires gauges, accurate thermometer and sling psychrometer as well as
manufacturer supplied charging charts for each brand of equipment. You
can't get that watching the tech unless he is a dope and doing it
wrong. Then you will learn how to do it wrong. GOOD DEAL!! Get a
competant tech to do it right. You will spend a lot more to do it
right yourself than it will cost to hire someone to do it right. Of
course if you hardly ever use it, you will not need to check it as
often. Improper charge uses more electricity and produces less
cooling. The money you save will be spent with the power company.
Better you do whatever you do well (accounting or whatever) and pay
HVAC contractor to do what he does well.


Stretch

PS I spend a lot of money on an accountant to do my company taxes. He
pays me to do his AC & Heat work. He does taxes better, I do heating &
AC better. We are BOTH better off!


I'm not advocating that I will do anything with
the closed gas system, the tech can to that. But
there is no reason I can't maintain the rest of
the system, especially if doesn't require much
maintenance. I just don't see a need to have the
system checked every year when there is no
indication of any kind of problem. When there is
an indication, that's the time to have the system
checked. Does anybody every have the pressure
checked in the refrigerator or freezer? The A/C
on all the cars I have owned always worked fine
without doing anything to the closed system or
they didn't work well and trying to make them work
well just wasted money. The only exception to
that was when a line leaked and it was pretty
evident that the A/C stopped working.

And contributes to premature failure....

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"stretch" wrote in message
oups.com...
Doing it yourself depends on what you are doing yourself. I carry
about $7,000 in tools om my truck I also have 25 years experience
using them. Checking freon requires EPA certification. Doing it right
requires gauges, accurate thermometer and sling psychrometer as well as
manufacturer supplied charging charts for each brand of equipment. You
can't get that watching the tech unless he is a dope and doing it
wrong. Then you will learn how to do it wrong. GOOD DEAL!! Get a
competant tech to do it right. You will spend a lot more to do it
right yourself than it will cost to hire someone to do it right. Of
course if you hardly ever use it, you will not need to check it as
often. Improper charge uses more electricity and produces less
cooling. The money you save will be spent with the power company.
Better you do whatever you do well (accounting or whatever) and pay
HVAC contractor to do what he does well.


Stretch

PS I spend a lot of money on an accountant to do my company taxes. He
pays me to do his AC & Heat work. He does taxes better, I do heating &
AC better. We are BOTH better off!

One thing to note. The compressor is cooled two ways. One is the refrigerant
flow through the compressor. Second is the air flow. the refrigerant flow is
the major one.

When the freon is low, there isn't enough cooling power, and the compressor
burns out prematurely.

Actually, I can think of one or two other reasons why the compressor would
run hot. I'm sure Stretch (and a few other HVAC techs on this board) can
also.

Maint helps machines last longer. AC, cars, trucks, whatever. Maint prolongs
life of the unit.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"George E. Cawthon" wrote in message
news:86W6e.69007

Wouldn't make any difference if they were
expensive. Two or three visits would pay for
them. OTOH, the is about home units, so what's to
maintain? you keep the outdoor unit clean, you
oil the motor, and you clean the indoor unit.
Doesn't require any guages or any extensive
knowledge. You know or suspect something is
screwy when cooling capacity diminishes. Up to
that point, there is no need to check the freon.
We had our A/C unit for 15 + years before it was
ever checked (free). He oiled the compressor
motor, told us the relay (about $200) needed to be
replaced, the motor was wearing out (amp draw was
low) and cleaned the inside unit. Four years
later, my wife heard a funny noise and insisted we
call a guy. He oiled the motor, added about 1/2
pound of gas (note that is all that was ever
replaced in 25 years) and didn't mention any other
problem.

Admittedly the unit receives light duty compared
to units in the south. We think it is terrible if
the unit needs to on at night (3-10 days a year)
and if the unit is on for more than 6 hours a day
for possibly 50 days total a year.

What I don't understand about checking gas
pressures, is that if the unit if functioning
well, why have any concerns? One doesn't do that
for other electrical equipment.

I'm not arguing that you shouldn't do maintenance.
But do you climb up on your roof and pull up a
shingle to see how the roof is doing?

As long as the A/c is cooling, there will be
refrigerant flow. So, cooling-- no need to check
refrigerant, not cooling-- check the refrigerant.

Stormin Mormon wrote:
One thing to note. The compressor is cooled two ways. One is the refrigerant
flow through the compressor. Second is the air flow. the refrigerant flow is
the major one.

When the freon is low, there isn't enough cooling power, and the compressor
burns out prematurely.

Actually, I can think of one or two other reasons why the compressor would
run hot. I'm sure Stretch (and a few other HVAC techs on this board) can
also.

Maint helps machines last longer. AC, cars, trucks, whatever. Maint prolongs
life of the unit.

Efficiency and damage is the issue for maintaining proper freon , it
runs alot so what I pay for the call would be made back quickly if I was
running say at 70% efficiency, the only way I can find out is have it
checked. If you wait till it is out of freon damage has likely occured
to the system and you may have been running for years paying alot more
with reduced efficiency. You dont wait till your car radiator or oil is
empty or you motor seizes, right, well catching any problem early can
save problems from getting out of hand.

The same thing applies to the electrical side. I was on a tuneup
yesterday with a new customer. It was cooling, but they just wanted
checked, it had been a few years. I found a dirty blower wheel &
cleaned it. (Customer could have done that himself) I also found a
weak, but not dead blower capacitor. The blower motor was still below
nameplate amps. When I replaced the capacitor, the blower amps dropped
from 2.0 to 1.6, at 240 volts, a savings of over 90 watts (Power Factor
of .95 on motor). In addition, if the capacitor had gotten any weaker,
the motor might have burned up. It certainly wouldn't run any more,
energency calls are often more expensive than tuneups. Also I had to
add about 1-1/2 pounds of freon. But the system was still cooling
some, even though efficiency & capacity was low. If you wait till it
is dead to have it checked, it can get very expensive. A service
agreement or anual check is cheaper than a new blower motor and new
compressor. A good tuneup will find weaknesses before the system is
dead. If they just check pressure of freon, they are not doing it
right. They need to check suction superheat and liquid subcooling and
approach temperatures, depending on system. You need training for
that. It looks simple, but doing it right is NOT simple, and doing it
wrong can get expensive. Some things are DIY, servicing ac is not one
of them. Cleaning outdoor coil and replacing filters is the limit of
what consumers should do to their system. Remember: "A little bit of
knowledge is a dangerous thing".


Stretch

On initial startup one season I noticed the compressor didnt kick in I
tried again it did. The service guy was comming out anyway for the
yearly. He checked the capacitor and found it bad, fixed it for part
cost. Now if I had waited till it blew and let it continue I would have
lost the compressor at 11 years I would of just bought a new compressor
so that 65 $ service agreement more than paid for all the calls to date
and more as a new unit would have been thousands. It is still fine at 16
yrs now-nock on wood..

"m Ransley" wrote in message
...
I would like to know how to check out my stuff but I know gauges are not
cheap for freon. Keeping an eye on equipment can save on repairs if you
know what to look for and keep equipment from dying early, and save on
electriciy


What you have to have before you do that, is your EPA certificate. And right
now, with R410 rolling out hard and heavy, its not really something a person
with little to no training really wants to do...
Im waiting for the rush on systems to start in about another 5 years, when
the original stuff that was installed in the early days of Puron starts to
fail, DIY types start to work on it, and a week after they put in that new
compressor, its locked up tight as a drum.
Failures will be from running R22 in a 410 system and the oil says..WTF? and
of course, having the system open for more than 30 minutes...no amount of
vac after that will clear the oil, that is VERY hydroscopic.

"George E. Cawthon" wrote in message
...
m Ransley wrote:
I would like to know how to check out my stuff but I know gauges are not
cheap for freon. Keeping an eye on equipment can save on repairs if you
know what to look for and keep equipment from dying early, and save on
electriciy


Wouldn't make any difference if they were
expensive. Two or three visits would pay for
them. OTOH, the is about home units, so what's to
maintain? you keep the outdoor unit clean, you
oil the motor, and you clean the indoor unit.


NO motors used in OE are the type you can oil now, unless they are in
commercial equipment., OR on a belt drive unit.

Doesn't require any guages or any extensive
knowledge.

Actually..wrong.
Clean that outdoor unit, that was dirty and the last tech didnt clean it,
and then you damn sure better have a set of guages and a sling
pchycrometer.(sp)

You know or suspect something is
screwy when cooling capacity diminishes. Up to
that point, there is no need to check the freon.

Again..wrong.
We kept records one year of every unit we serviced that was NOT a unit we
had serviced before.
100% of them were charged wrong.
You can not tell if a unit has a bad weld, a leaking service port, or if the
guys that charged it before had a clue.
Of course, its harder yet to tell if the company you have coming out knows
what they are doing.

Its yet another reason we dont charge for refrigerant if its just a couple
of pounds low on a service call.
(hint..largest scam in the industry.)


We had our A/C unit for 15 + years before it was
ever checked (free). He oiled the compressor
motor,

IMPOSSIBLE.
He might have oiled the CONDENSOR FAN MOTOR, but he didnt oil the compressor
motor.
The compressor motor is sealed, and oiled by the refrigerant oil.



told us the relay (about $200) needed to be
replaced, the motor was wearing out (amp draw was
low) and cleaned the inside unit. Four years
later, my wife heard a funny noise and insisted we
call a guy. He oiled the motor, added about 1/2
pound of gas (note that is all that was ever
replaced in 25 years) and didn't mention any other
problem.

Thats one case.
Explain to the others out there that have had issues over and over again why
their units failed.

I had a Mazda B2000 that went over 500,000 miles....yet no one else could
get that out of one around me....why is that?


Admittedly the unit receives light duty compared
to units in the south. We think it is terrible if
the unit needs to on at night (3-10 days a year)
and if the unit is on for more than 6 hours a day
for possibly 50 days total a year.

AHHHHH
There ya go..
Thats why.
Now, you take a unit that runs up to 8 hours a day, every day for about 200
days a year...its going to require much more than yours did.


What I don't understand about checking gas
pressures, is that if the unit if functioning
well, why have any concerns? One doesn't do that
for other electrical equipment.

Ok..
Its actually more simple than you think.
Just because a unit is cooling, does not mean its cooling PROPERLY. You
reach a level (every pressure has a temp, every temp has a pressure) that
the unit will start to freeze the coil....drop lower, (remove more
refrigerant) and it will get to the point that it will not meter, and the
coil wont freeze...but thats another topic..anyway...you can charge a unit
to the point where it will cool. Stop right? Wrong. Suppose you are charging
the unit on a 100F day....will it cool properly on a 75F day? If you didnt
charge the unit properly, the answer is yes, no, maybe.
A properly charged unit takes more than the pressures into consideration.
Any and I mean ANY HVAC guy that you hire, that simply takes a manifold set
(guages) to the unit, slaps em on, and declaires it full, or low, is a
thief..a crook, a hack, a fool, and isnt to be paid a damn dime for his
time, or work.
ANY HVAC guy that does the above, and takes his little green jug of R22 to
the unit, and ONLY the jug and starts dumping gas to the unit, isnt to be
paid either..when he tells you that it took 3lbs of R22, ASK HIM HOW IN HELL
HE KNOWS...unless he took a scale with him, nd offers to show you the
reading, in plain unadulterated English....**** him.
Unless he takes wet bulb readings, checks the coil condition for
cleanliness, filters, ambient air temps, etc, hes not charging your unit
right.

Care to guess how up to 95% of the units in teh country are charged?

A properly charged unit is one that is working at proper efficientcy. While
you can have a unit that cools your home, (and its charged wrong) imagine
what would happen if that same unit that you thought was working right,
really was? Humidity goes down, run times might increase, and power
consumption goes DOWN.

Granted...most people never know. Most techs never check. And its a sad
state of affairs.
Its also one reason that we throw our techs a test call from time to
time....a unit that we have set up wrong on purpose..superheats off a bit,
maybe alot....its either low, or overcharged, but its cooling GREAT....so
says the homeowner that is there. When the tech gets off the call, we check
the paperwork, and then go check the unit.....WITH THE TECH. If its wrong,
we show them what they failed to do, and why.
Now..you get one that flat out screws the customer, they are fired...period.
This isnt a game that you get to throw another 50 cents in and go
again...you get one shot with customers, and if you are out there making the
company look bad, well...you lose.
Its about educating the consumer as much as it is about doing the job RIGHT.
Do it, or dont...if you do, you have a job, if you dont, you can go work for
someone tht does not give a ****.

"Beeper" wrote in message
...
Just my opinion. I would pay them to come in and do the maintenance, but I
would be sure to be loking over their shoulder so I can do it myself the
next time. Don't be afraid to ask questions about DIY. Sometimes you get a
repair/maintenance person that is more than willing to share his/her
knowledge with you. If they talk over your head as udarrell did, ask them
to
explain it in simpler terms. Some will, Some can't.


And there are some things that while its in simplistic terms to someone
thats trained, it would STILL be over a customers head.

We cant tell what a customer can understand....we cant tell what will ring
the little bell and go DING, that makes sense, and we cant spend 4 hours on
a simple service call showing and explaining every move we make.

If it helps I have considered for the longest time putting a page up on my
site that shows the PROPER way that a tech should service a unit, with pics,
and some basic explanations. With season getting fired up, this might be the
time to do it....I just have to find the time to spend the extra hour or so
on a call taking enough pics that we have enough that can help explain
things.

BTW...expect it to get much harder next year for DIY types to be able to buy
anything from local supply houses in most areas. Mine here have simply
stopped selling unless you are licenced. Period. They used to slide a few
things, but no longer. With EPA audits and state licence inspections on the
increase due to the new refrigerants and new legislation here, its going to
be a thing of the past at least for a time.

Of course, in the states that a licence is not required, things wont change,
but you still will have to meet the federal mandates.


"toller" wrote in message
...
I replaced my 20 year old HVAC two years ago; and got a 10 year extended
warranty. Since then I have had the furnace cleaned each winter.

Today I got a post card from the installer recommending that I get
maintenance on the A/C. I have always thought that A/C didn't need
anything as long as it was working okay. Is preventive maintenance
necessary?

AMEN Steve!

You can't put years of training and experience into a short
explaination for a homeowner. If you did and something else wemt wrong
next time, where would they be? Lost, that's where!

Stretch

m Ransley wrote:
Efficiency and damage is the issue for maintaining proper freon , it
runs alot so what I pay for the call would be made back quickly if I was
running say at 70% efficiency, the only way I can find out is have it
checked. If you wait till it is out of freon damage has likely occured
to the system and you may have been running for years paying alot more
with reduced efficiency. You dont wait till your car radiator or oil is
empty or you motor seizes, right, well catching any problem early can
save problems from getting out of hand.


Sounds reasonable, but isn't for many people. In
the first place the change in efficiency is
usually minor so a $70 service call won't be
recovered for several years. Actually on the car
motor, if you watch the gages, your car radiator
won't be empty and neither will your motor be
empty of oil. However, checking your oil amount
is a 2minute job (from the front door and back)
and checking your radiator coolant is about 1
minute and neither costs any money.

Most people would never notice the change in
efficiency in a motor car A/C, i.e. the mpg
change. They either never compute it (or don't
know simple math) or they believe all sorts of
wild claims. I recently read that a nationally
know agency claimed every 100 pounds costs 1 mpg.
Obviously an exaggeration. I had a 73 F25o
that got 11.5 mpg whether it was empty or hauling
1000 pounds. By the agency calculation, I should
have gotten only 0.5 mpg when hauling 1000 pounds.
Don't know what the hell I was suppose to get
hauling 1500 to 2000 pounds.

The only A/c type of efficiency that I noticed was
the cost of running a freezer. It was terribly
inefficient and I should have junked it at the
beginning. Wasn't a problem with the sealed
system but a design flaw; defrosting cycle was
clocked wrong and ran too much.

As I stated before and I agree with you on
catching the problem early. If one pays
attention, one will notice when something is wrong
and will turn off the appliance and call the
maintenance man (assuming one doesn't know how to
fix it). Until that time, maintenance on A/C is
generally a waste of your money and a money maker
for the technician. If it is cool, it is ok!

wrote:
"George E. Cawthon" wrote in message
...

m Ransley wrote:

I would like to know how to check out my stuff but I know gauges are not
cheap for freon. Keeping an eye on equipment can save on repairs if you
know what to look for and keep equipment from dying early, and save on
electriciy


Wouldn't make any difference if they were
expensive. Two or three visits would pay for
them. OTOH, the is about home units, so what's to
maintain? you keep the outdoor unit clean, you
oil the motor, and you clean the indoor unit.



NO motors used in OE are the type you can oil now, unless they are in
commercial equipment., OR on a belt drive unit.

Sorry, I erred, should have been refering to the
fan motor. Of course the A/c compressor in home
type stuff is sealed.


Doesn't require any guages or any extensive
knowledge.


Actually..wrong.
Clean that outdoor unit, that was dirty and the last tech didnt clean it,
and then you damn sure better have a set of guages and a sling
pchycrometer.(sp)

Why? It is not suppose to be clean and free of
leaves. You want to change something just because
you cleaned it? Total BS. Do you tune up your
car every time you wash it?


You know or suspect something is
screwy when cooling capacity diminishes. Up to
that point, there is no need to check the freon.


Again..wrong.
We kept records one year of every unit we serviced that was NOT a unit we
had serviced before.
100% of them were charged wrong.
You can not tell if a unit has a bad weld, a leaking service port, or if the
guys that charged it before had a clue.
Of course, its harder yet to tell if the company you have coming out knows
what they are doing.

Don't understand your point. If the unit holds it
charge and cools for 10 years, are you saying it
came from the factory incorrectly charged or it
was charged wrong at installation.

If you found everyone of them charged wrong, I
suggest that your test was not accurate. You are
saying that everyone except you charges the units
incorrectly?

Its yet another reason we dont charge for refrigerant if its just a couple
of pounds low on a service call.
(hint..largest scam in the industry.)

Great, how do you recover the cost of teh
refrigerant? Big maintenance charge?



We had our A/C unit for 15 + years before it was
ever checked (free). He oiled the compressor
motor,


IMPOSSIBLE.
He might have oiled the CONDENSOR FAN MOTOR, but he didnt oil the compressor
motor.
The compressor motor is sealed, and oiled by the refrigerant oil.


As I said at the beginning, I erred. Of course it
was the fan motor. Nice catch.



told us the relay (about $200) needed to be
replaced, the motor was wearing out (amp draw was
low) and cleaned the inside unit. Four years
later, my wife heard a funny noise and insisted we
call a guy. He oiled the motor, added about 1/2
pound of gas (note that is all that was ever
replaced in 25 years) and didn't mention any other
problem.


Thats one case.
Explain to the others out there that have had issues over and over again why
their units failed.

Guess I had an install of a reputable unit by a
reputable company. Like I said the unit was used
hard either.

I had a Mazda B2000 that went over 500,000 miles....yet no one else could
get that out of one around me....why is that?

Don't know, luck of the draw. I had a window A/C
unit given to me that had been run hard by a
mother for many year, then given to a daughter who
ran it and the performance slowly detiorated. I
removed the blower, cleaned the bearings,
reinstalled and used if for over a year during
which it performed admirably. Explain that.


Admittedly the unit receives light duty compared
to units in the south. We think it is terrible if
the unit needs to on at night (3-10 days a year)
and if the unit is on for more than 6 hours a day
for possibly 50 days total a year.


AHHHHH
There ya go..
Thats why.
Now, you take a unit that runs up to 8 hours a day, every day for about 200
days a year...its going to require much more than yours did.

Maybe and maybe not.


What I don't understand about checking gas
pressures, is that if the unit if functioning
well, why have any concerns? One doesn't do that
for other electrical equipment.


Ok..
Its actually more simple than you think.
Just because a unit is cooling, does not mean its cooling PROPERLY. You
reach a level (every pressure has a temp, every temp has a pressure) that
the unit will start to freeze the coil....drop lower, (remove more
refrigerant) and it will get to the point that it will not meter, and the
coil wont freeze...but thats another topic..anyway...you can charge a unit
to the point where it will cool. Stop right? Wrong. Suppose you are charging
the unit on a 100F day....will it cool properly on a 75F day? If you didnt
charge the unit properly, the answer is yes, no, maybe.

Whoa, you just said what I did. If it works
properly it has to be charged correctly.

A properly charged unit takes more than the pressures into consideration.
Any and I mean ANY HVAC guy that you hire, that simply takes a manifold set
(guages) to the unit, slaps em on, and declaires it full, or low, is a
thief..a crook, a hack, a fool, and isnt to be paid a damn dime for his
time, or work.

I can agree with that.
ANY HVAC guy that does the above, and takes his little green jug of R22 to
the unit, and ONLY the jug and starts dumping gas to the unit, isnt to be
paid either..when he tells you that it took 3lbs of R22, ASK HIM HOW IN HELL
HE KNOWS...unless he took a scale with him, nd offers to show you the
reading, in plain unadulterated English....**** him.
Unless he takes wet bulb readings, checks the coil condition for
cleanliness, filters, ambient air temps, etc, hes not charging your unit
right.

Care to guess how up to 95% of the units in teh country are charged?

A properly charged unit is one that is working at proper efficientcy. While
you can have a unit that cools your home, (and its charged wrong) imagine
what would happen if that same unit that you thought was working right,
really was? Humidity goes down, run times might increase, and power
consumption goes DOWN.

Granted...most people never know. Most techs never check. And its a sad
state of affairs.
Its also one reason that we throw our techs a test call from time to
time....a unit that we have set up wrong on purpose..superheats off a bit,
maybe alot....its either low, or overcharged, but its cooling GREAT....so
says the homeowner that is there. When the tech gets off the call, we check
the paperwork, and then go check the unit.....WITH THE TECH. If its wrong,
we show them what they failed to do, and why.
Now..you get one that flat out screws the customer, they are fired...period.
This isnt a game that you get to throw another 50 cents in and go
again...you get one shot with customers, and if you are out there making the
company look bad, well...you lose.
Its about educating the consumer as much as it is about doing the job RIGHT.
Do it, or dont...if you do, you have a job, if you dont, you can go work for
someone tht does not give a ****.

tm wrote:
stretch wrote:


AMEN Steve!

You can't put years of training and experience into a short
explaination for a homeowner.


Indeed. Some people can't even spell 'explanation'. Highly unlikely
they'd be able to explain anything to your average college educated
homeowner.


If you did and something else wemt wrong
next time, where would they be? Lost, that's where!


Nah, they'd probably just figure something wemt wrong and look for
another slightly more competent hvac contractor.

Hey, good answer, but I think stretch was talking
about doctors.

On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 13:28:39 +0900, tm
wrote:

stretch wrote:

AMEN Steve!

You can't put years of training and experience into a short
explaination for a homeowner.

Indeed. Some people can't even spell 'explanation'. Highly unlikely
they'd be able to explain anything to your average college educated
homeowner.

If you did and something else wemt wrong
next time, where would they be? Lost, that's where!

Nah, they'd probably just figure something wemt wrong and look for
another slightly more competent hvac contractor.

http://www.leeric.lsu.edu/energy/ac_tuneup/

"tm" wrote in message
...
stretch wrote:

AMEN Steve!

You can't put years of training and experience into a short
explaination for a homeowner.

Indeed. Some people can't even spell 'explanation'. Highly unlikely
they'd be able to explain anything to your average college educated
homeowner.

If you did and something else went wrong
next time, where would they be? Lost, that's where!

Nah, they'd probably just figure something went wrong and look for
another slightly more competent HVAC contractor.

Anytime you want to show what you have, and can apply in the real world, and
not nitpick over a typo, you are welcome to come try.
I am not talking about just some pansy test, I am talking about a basic resi
unit that has issues, but isn't noticeable right off.
Keep in mind, Ill have the brother in laws production team filming this, and
we just might have to turn it into a tape that shows why uneducated folks
should not attempt some things.
Up to it? You are great at flames, but I offer that you cant figure
superheat, or how to tell if that's what you use, in the real world.
If typos are what you want to use as a method to discredit me...go for
it...Your typos are repaired in this reply.

"George E. Cawthon" wrote in message
...
wrote:
"George E. Cawthon" wrote in message
...

m Ransley wrote:

I would like to know how to check out my stuff but I know gauges are
not
cheap for freon. Keeping an eye on equipment can save on repairs if you
know what to look for and keep equipment from dying early, and save on
electriciy


Wouldn't make any difference if they were
expensive. Two or three visits would pay for
them. OTOH, the is about home units, so what's to
maintain? you keep the outdoor unit clean, you
oil the motor, and you clean the indoor unit.



NO motors used in OE are the type you can oil now, unless they are in
commercial equipment., OR on a belt drive unit.

Sorry, I erred, should have been refering to the
fan motor. Of course the A/c compressor in home
type stuff is sealed.

Np.



Doesn't require any guages or any extensive
knowledge.


Actually..wrong.
Clean that outdoor unit, that was dirty and the last tech didnt clean
it,
and then you damn sure better have a set of guages and a sling
pchycrometer.(sp)

Why? It is not suppose to be clean and free of
leaves. You want to change something just because
you cleaned it? Total BS. Do you tune up your
car every time you wash it?

I would honestly rather have a few leaves on some units, rather than the
crud that gets down into the coils that you can not always see.
When the coils are clean, and I dont mean washed off with water only, the
pressures will change, but pressures dont mean a thing by themselves.They
are just one factor in your charge. Again, no one is suggesting you CHANGE
OUT anything. I am telling you a simple fact. Clean coils will transfer more
heat, and as such, yes, if they have not been cleaned properly in the past,
and now they are, I can promise you that there will indeed be a change.
This isnt your cars finish we are talking about. The performance of your car
does not rely on how shiny your paint is.




You know or suspect something is
screwy when cooling capacity diminishes. Up to
that point, there is no need to check the freon.


Again..wrong.
We kept records one year of every unit we serviced that was NOT a unit
we
had serviced before.
100% of them were charged wrong.
You can not tell if a unit has a bad weld, a leaking service port, or if
the
guys that charged it before had a clue.
Of course, its harder yet to tell if the company you have coming out
knows
what they are doing.

Don't understand your point. If the unit holds it
charge and cools for 10 years, are you saying it
came from the factory incorrectly charged or it
was charged wrong at installation.

Your unit? Have no way of knowing. However....factory charge USED to be 20
feet of lineset, and that would mean properly sized lineset.
Todays units have less. If you had for whatever reason, a larger lineset,
(needed at times) or a smaller than OE lineset, (never suggested, but often
found) then if they just hooked up and opened the valves, then unless the
lineset was shorter than the charge allowed, or other sets of events that we
can see from here, its charged wrong...if its never had a gauge set on it,
then you dont know either.
If all they have done is slap a maifold on it and look at the pressures, you
also do not know.
The point was, simply, a unit can cool, and still be wrong.


If you found everyone of them charged wrong, I
suggest that your test was not accurate. You are
saying that everyone except you charges the units
incorrectly?

Nope. Not at all. Looks that way from reading it, but that is not the case.
There is nothing wrong with my testing procedures. They are the correct and
most accurate procedures....what I am suggesting is that during THAT test
period, all the units we checked that were new customers had incorrectly
charged units.


Its yet another reason we dont charge for refrigerant if its just a
couple
of pounds low on a service call.
(hint..largest scam in the industry.)

Great, how do you recover the cost of teh
refrigerant? Big maintenance charge?

Nope. Low overhead. How much do you think that a jug of refrigerant REALLY
costs? LOL...
Like I state, and I will stand behind, adding refrigerant to a unit is the
#1 scam in the industry. The most common amount to scam the customer is
2lbs..
I dont think we will go broke giving a customer $3 of refrigerant. (R22)
I also know that as 22 prices go higher, as they will in the next couple of
years, we might have to charge a slight amount for it, but it wont be much.
Oh..if it matters, until June 1st, a service call for maintaining a unit,
not repairing, but a seasonal service is $50..that includes all we do to a
unit, cleaning properly with a chemical wash outdoors, a chemical wash of
the indoor coil, and up to 2lbs of R22. Some guys wont consider that $50
anything but a TRIP FEE.
Yea....real high service fees man....real high. LOL





We had our A/C unit for 15 + years before it was
ever checked (free). He oiled the compressor
motor,


IMPOSSIBLE.
He might have oiled the CONDENSOR FAN MOTOR, but he didnt oil the
compressor
motor.
The compressor motor is sealed, and oiled by the refrigerant oil.


As I said at the beginning, I erred. Of course it
was the fan motor. Nice catch.

No problem..all I was doing there was letting you know that if thats what
you really thought, your guy lied to you...thats all.




told us the relay (about $200) needed to be
replaced, the motor was wearing out (amp draw was
low) and cleaned the inside unit. Four years
later, my wife heard a funny noise and insisted we
call a guy. He oiled the motor, added about 1/2
pound of gas (note that is all that was ever
replaced in 25 years) and didn't mention any other
problem.


Thats one case.
Explain to the others out there that have had issues over and over again
why
their units failed.

Guess I had an install of a reputable unit by a
reputable company. Like I said the unit was used
hard either.

I would say that you have had good luck, and the useage of the unit helps.
If you dont use it much, its not going to have much wear and tear.
They DO wear out.

I had a Mazda B2000 that went over 500,000 miles....yet no one else
could
get that out of one around me....why is that?

Don't know, luck of the draw. I had a window A/C
unit given to me that had been run hard by a
mother for many year, then given to a daughter who
ran it and the performance slowly detiorated. I
removed the blower, cleaned the bearings,
reinstalled and used if for over a year during
which it performed admirably. Explain that.

You just proved the point for service and cleanings.
Had it been cleaned and checked (granted, its a window unit.) the
performance would not have dropped.



Admittedly the unit receives light duty compared
to units in the south. We think it is terrible if
the unit needs to on at night (3-10 days a year)
and if the unit is on for more than 6 hours a day
for possibly 50 days total a year.


AHHHHH
There ya go..
Thats why.
Now, you take a unit that runs up to 8 hours a day, every day for about
200
days a year...its going to require much more than yours did.

Maybe and maybe not.


No..its not a maybe or maybe not.
The units here in NC actually require less service than the ones we serviced
in the deserts of CA. The area the unit is in, will also determine how often
it needs service. Some units suggest as a basic guide, in the owners manual,
at least ONE service every 2 years, and then they have a disclaimer that
states that depending on the enviroment, usage, type of unit, that it may
require more.
I have resi units we get to once a year, some twice a year, some once every
2 years.
Then I have commercial units that get checked every 2 months. It depends on
the usage, and enviroment.



What I don't understand about checking gas
pressures, is that if the unit if functioning
well, why have any concerns? One doesn't do that
for other electrical equipment.


Ok..
Its actually more simple than you think.
Just because a unit is cooling, does not mean its cooling PROPERLY. You
reach a level (every pressure has a temp, every temp has a pressure)
that
the unit will start to freeze the coil....drop lower, (remove more
refrigerant) and it will get to the point that it will not meter, and
the
coil wont freeze...but thats another topic..anyway...you can charge a
unit
to the point where it will cool. Stop right? Wrong. Suppose you are
charging
the unit on a 100F day....will it cool properly on a 75F day? If you
didnt
charge the unit properly, the answer is yes, no, maybe.

Whoa, you just said what I did. If it works
properly it has to be charged correctly.

Nope...if you took it that way, sorry.
Ok..its like this. Turtle suggests that you charge a unit till the lineset
is "beer can cold". Now, granted, if you do that, the unit will cool.
If you do that most of the time, its overcharged. SOMETIMES it will be
undercharged. You have to take all the variables that go into the design of
the unit, the units metering device, the temps, etc, to properly charge a
unit. There are some guys that will charge a unit until the lineset is
sweating like crazy. The lineset might sweat with 97%RH, but if its sweating
at 70% or less, its probably overcharged.
Charge the unit properly, to the proper superheat, or subcool, and it does
not matter if its not sweating.
Alot of people will say incorrectly that if you go out and one lines hot and
the other is cold, its right. Well..no...not always. Again, this is where
superheat and subcool come into play. I can MAKE a lineset sweat like crazy,
and not a bit of cooling take place. What good is that?

Point is..if your tech is not checking the proper items, hes not working for
you. Most people do not have a clue what is right, and what is wrong.
Sad thing is, most techs dont either.
Im on your side guy....ive said time and time again that I would do this for
free, if I could find a way to pay the bills..LOL. I got into this because
of a crooked tech in CA. I was in automotive, knew what was the proper way
to charge a system (weight, superheat-subcool, etc) and watched a guy try to
get one over on a retired lady....my mother in law..I was not licenced in CA
at the time, so I suggested that she call a company that she trusted out to
check her unit that was not cooling well. He comes out, didnt do anything
honestly but slap the manifold on, and start dumping 22 to the unit. I stood
and watched, asking questions like: Where is your scale? Where is your
thermometer? How you gonna know how much you put in? he advoided the
questions, ignored most, and then told me that he didnt like non licenced
persons telling him how to do his job.
He then came in and gave her a $200 bill. I told him that once he got the
superheat readings on the ticket and exactly how much 22 he put in, we would
pay it, but he refused.
We told him that we would take it up with his boss, and called another
company out. Turns out later that I would go to work for this guy, but
anyway, he did everything right, removed 5lbs too much R22, and then cleaned
the coils. The unit cooled like a champ.
Needless to say...the other company didnt get paid the $200..they got paid
for a service call....but not for the hacks attempted repair.



A properly charged unit takes more than the pressures into
consideration.
Any and I mean ANY HVAC guy that you hire, that simply takes a manifold
set
(guages) to the unit, slaps em on, and declaires it full, or low, is a
thief..a crook, a hack, a fool, and isnt to be paid a damn dime for his
time, or work.

I can agree with that.

As should anyone.

ANY HVAC guy that does the above, and takes his little green jug of R22
to
the unit, and ONLY the jug and starts dumping gas to the unit, isnt to
be
paid either..when he tells you that it took 3lbs of R22, ASK HIM HOW IN
HELL
HE KNOWS...unless he took a scale with him, nd offers to show you the
reading, in plain unadulterated English....**** him.
Unless he takes wet bulb readings, checks the coil condition for
cleanliness, filters, ambient air temps, etc, hes not charging your unit
right.

Care to guess how up to 95% of the units in teh country are charged?

A properly charged unit is one that is working at proper efficientcy.
While
you can have a unit that cools your home, (and its charged wrong)
imagine
what would happen if that same unit that you thought was working right,
really was? Humidity goes down, run times might increase, and power
consumption goes DOWN.

Granted...most people never know. Most techs never check. And its a sad
state of affairs.
Its also one reason that we throw our techs a test call from time to
time....a unit that we have set up wrong on purpose..superheats off a
bit,
maybe alot....its either low, or overcharged, but its cooling
GREAT....so
says the homeowner that is there. When the tech gets off the call, we
check
the paperwork, and then go check the unit.....WITH THE TECH. If its
wrong,
we show them what they failed to do, and why.
Now..you get one that flat out screws the customer, they are
fired...period.
This isnt a game that you get to throw another 50 cents in and go
again...you get one shot with customers, and if you are out there making
the
company look bad, well...you lose.
Its about educating the consumer as much as it is about doing the job
RIGHT.
Do it, or dont...if you do, you have a job, if you dont, you can go work
for
someone tht does not give a ****.

Steve,
He's not worth the effort
He's just trolling

" wrote in
message ...

"tm" wrote in message
...
stretch wrote:

AMEN Steve!

You can't put years of training and experience into a short
explaination for a homeowner.

Indeed. Some people can't even spell 'explanation'. Highly unlikely
they'd be able to explain anything to your average college educated
homeowner.

If you did and something else went wrong
next time, where would they be? Lost, that's where!

Nah, they'd probably just figure something went wrong and look for
another slightly more competent HVAC contractor.

Anytime you want to show what you have, and can apply in the real world,
and
not nitpick over a typo, you are welcome to come try.
I am not talking about just some pansy test, I am talking about a basic
resi
unit that has issues, but isn't noticeable right off.
Keep in mind, Ill have the brother in laws production team filming this,
and
we just might have to turn it into a tape that shows why uneducated folks
should not attempt some things.
Up to it? You are great at flames, but I offer that you cant figure
superheat, or how to tell if that's what you use, in the real world.
If typos are what you want to use as a method to discredit me...go for
it...Your typos are repaired in this reply.

"Noon-Air" wrote in message
news
Steve,
He's not worth the effort
He's just trolling



That was all the effort I was gonna put in it...
But , since it was in alt.home, dont ya think that the good folks there need
to know that some alt.config troll does not know his head from his ass?
Hows things going man? Old mails not active..the old ones back up, or call
me sometime..

" wrote in
message ...

"Noon-Air" wrote in message
news
Steve,
He's not worth the effort
He's just trolling



That was all the effort I was gonna put in it...
But , since it was in alt.home, dont ya think that the good folks there
need
to know that some alt.config troll does not know his head from his ass?
Hows things going man? Old mails not active..the old ones back up, or call
me sometime..

Send me a test msg with the current address :-)

http://www.leeric.lsu.edu/ener=ADgy/ac_tuneup/

what a bunch of bologna

see

http://www.mobilehomerepair.com/arti...nditioner.html

"Bria" wrote

http://www.leeric.lsu.edu/ener*gy/ac_tuneup/

what a bunch of bologna

see

http://www.mobilehomerepair.com/arti...nditioner.html



Boy! If only all evaporator coils were that easy to get to.......

"Bria" wrote in message
oups.com...
http://www.leeric.lsu.edu/ener*gy/ac_tuneup/

what a bunch of bologna

see

http://www.mobilehomerepair.com/arti...nditioner.html

Yeah...gimmee some of that pink stuff to clean them coils with....
directions?? its got directions??

Noon-Air wrote:

"Bria" wrote in message
oups.com...
http://www.leeric.lsu.edu/ener*gy/ac_tuneup/

what a bunch of bologna

see

http://www.mobilehomerepair.com/arti...nditioner.html

Yeah...gimmee some of that pink stuff to clean them coils with....
directions?? its got directions??

Pink stuff -- would that be the acid-based coil cleaner? Read the
horro story at www.nucalgon.com before you TOUCH thatstuff.

"Vicki Szaszvari" wrote in message
...


Noon-Air wrote:

"Bria" wrote in message
oups.com...
http://www.leeric.lsu.edu/ener*gy/ac_tuneup/

what a bunch of bologna

see

http://www.mobilehomerepair.com/arti...nditioner.html

Yeah...gimmee some of that pink stuff to clean them coils with....
directions?? its got directions??

Pink stuff -- would that be the acid-based coil cleaner? Read the horro
story at www.nucalgon.com before you TOUCH thatstuff.

I know all about that stuff and won't even have that stuff on my property.
Billy-Joe-Jim-Bob in a mobile home doesn't know about it and think the MSDS
that is hung from the neck of the jug is more fodder for the little house
out back.

stretch wrote:
AMEN Steve!

You can't put years of training and experience into a short
explaination for a homeowner.



Indeed. Some people can't even spell 'explanation'. Highly unlikely
they'd be able to explain anything to your average college educated


homeowner.
If you did and something else wemt wrong
next time, where would they be? Lost, that's where!


Nah, they'd probably just figure something wemt wrong and look for
another slightly more competent hvac contractor.

tm,

I'm glad you can spell, you might as well be right about something!
:-)

Honestly, if you start correcting all of the spelling in this group,
including all of the fat fingers, you will never get anything else
done. I suggest that you stick to the discussion at hand and stop
worrying about the spelling. Some of the spelling is worse than mine.
Who knows? Maybe someday you will spell something wrong, then we can
all jump YOU about it!

Stretch