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  #1   Report Post  
fredinstl
 
Posts: n/a
Default GFCI still tripping

thanks for your responses.
I installed a new GFCI, and it was still tripping.
I then tried again to plug it into the other plug I tried before, and I

realized it actually wasn't a GFCI (I couldn't see it as it was behind
a 2 - 6 plug adaptor :-( Being in the kitchen, I just assumed it was
GFCI, but it wasn't).
So now I know my espresso machine is at fault.
I opened the expresso machine, tied all connectors I could find, tried
it again, and it made the GFCI tripped.
Next thing I tried: changed the cord. I had one at home, so simple
enough. One thing I wasn't sure about is that it had blue, brown and
yellow-green cables (the espresso is made in Italy), but the cord I had

was the typical black, white and ground.
I connected in: black/brown, white/blue and yellow-green/ground (found
that info on the internet)
When plugged in, it doesnt' trip anymore. However, if I activate the
pump, it trips again.
Any idea before I take it to repair. I probably should do that, but I
bought it used on ebay, not exactly for cheap, and sent it to repair
about 5 months ago (they cleaned everything), so my 10 years old
machine already cost me more than a new one :-(
I would hate to fork another $100 on it...


thanks in advance. Fred

PS: I am reposting, as, for some reason, my msg didn't show up as new.

In my kitchen, my espresso machine is making the GFCI trip. When
plugging something else (such as toaster), it doesn't trip.
Also, plugging the espresso machine to another GFCI in my kitchen, it


doesnt' trip neither.
So is it due to the espresso machine or shall I just change the GFCI

?

thanks.



Fred.


  #2   Report Post  
AutoTracer
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Your expresso machine must have a metal body else it would not need a
grounded cord. Using a multimeter with the unit unplugged check the
resistance between the black and ground and the white and ground, they
should both be open. Check the resistance between the chassis and ground,
it should be shorted. Thats a basic test and if it failed, I would expect
the GFCI to trip always (except if ground is open in which case it would
never trip).

You say it is only tripping when the motor starts. This implies the motor
is putting current down the green wire while running. Is it possible the
green and white wires are swapped for the motor only.

" I opened the expresso machine, tied all connectors I could find, tried
it again, and it made the GFCI tripped"


What did you do? if you reconnected any wires, you may have created the
second fault at that time while eliminating an original short in the old
cord. Swapping black for white or white for ground could be a cause of
this.

Does the machine also trip regular breakers when the motor starts, if so it
is not a GFCI condition but an overcurrent protection trip


"fredinstl" wrote in message
oups.com...
thanks for your responses.
I installed a new GFCI, and it was still tripping.
I then tried again to plug it into the other plug I tried before, and I

realized it actually wasn't a GFCI (I couldn't see it as it was behind
a 2 - 6 plug adaptor :-( Being in the kitchen, I just assumed it was
GFCI, but it wasn't).
So now I know my espresso machine is at fault.
I opened the expresso machine, tied all connectors I could find, tried
it again, and it made the GFCI tripped.
Next thing I tried: changed the cord. I had one at home, so simple
enough. One thing I wasn't sure about is that it had blue, brown and
yellow-green cables (the espresso is made in Italy), but the cord I had

was the typical black, white and ground.
I connected in: black/brown, white/blue and yellow-green/ground (found
that info on the internet)
When plugged in, it doesnt' trip anymore. However, if I activate the
pump, it trips again.
Any idea before I take it to repair. I probably should do that, but I
bought it used on ebay, not exactly for cheap, and sent it to repair
about 5 months ago (they cleaned everything), so my 10 years old
machine already cost me more than a new one :-(
I would hate to fork another $100 on it...


thanks in advance. Fred

PS: I am reposting, as, for some reason, my msg didn't show up as new.

In my kitchen, my espresso machine is making the GFCI trip. When
plugging something else (such as toaster), it doesn't trip.
Also, plugging the espresso machine to another GFCI in my kitchen, it


doesnt' trip neither.
So is it due to the espresso machine or shall I just change the GFCI

?

thanks.



Fred.




  #3   Report Post  
Harry Everhart
 
Posts: n/a
Default

wrote:
You bought it on Ebay. That explains everything.....
Ebay, the place to buy someone elses broken junk.
About the only things I have ever bought on Ebay that were usable, was
books and a few pet supplies. Every electrical thing I have ever
gotten from Ebay was junk. Like the computer (CPU only) I bought on
Ebay that was listed as in "like new condition, and ready to use". It
came with a defective floppy drive, broken front panel on the case,
and no speaker. Plus it was listed to have 128 megs of ram, but only
had 64. I replaced the floppy, glued the cracked front, and added a
speaker from an old computer. and a week later smoke started coming
out of it. Some coil type of thing on the motherboard fried. I was
able to salvage the 10 gig harddrive a working but slow CD drive and
that one 64 meg memory stick, and tossed the rest of it in the
garbage. This mistake cost me $87. Then there was the reciprocatiing
saw that literally fell apart after 5 minutes of use. The steel frame
around the motor, inside the plastic housing was broken where the
blade assembly attached to the motor. It just vibrated itself apart.
That mistake cost me $45.
Aside from out of print books, I dont buy anything from Ebay anymore.
Mark


Dear Mark -

I have purchased and sold 170 different items on ebay in the last six
years. Among those I have bought are a $30,000 Coachmen Motor Home, a
$24,000 Miata Sports, and a $1100 Honda 80 Scooter. I have sold several
Mac Computers, Cell phones, cameras, tools, and anything else surplus I
was not using.

I purchased lots of furniture at deeply discounted prices.

I like eBay because I can get rid of things that are just collecting
dust around the house because I didn't really need them in the first
place or I have duplicates. It is like being able to spend my money a
second time. It also gets rid of some of the clutter that builds up in a
household.

I have an absolutely perfect 100% ebay rating. EVERY person that I have
dealt with has been perfect ladies and gentlemen. I have done everything
possible to make my buyers happy. I value my ebay rating.

On eBay - one must be very cautious. One must ask lots of questions and
check people's references. eBay has a lot to do with people's attitudes.
If you project a negative attitude - you often get back negative
attitude.

I am sure some folks have had bad deals on eBay like you claim. But your
generalization that almost everything on eBay is bad is just not right.

If you are unhappy eBay or had bad experiences - you are in a very small
minority. Often times people that do poorly on eBay use aliases when
they post on newsgroups. You have chosen to not use eBay anymore because
of bad deals. You should realize that a bad deal has two partners. :-)

eBay does not need stupid me to defend it - but when you attack eBay
buyers and sellers generally you are attacking me. And I do not deserve
that. :-)

Harry
  #4   Report Post  
Ralph Mowery
 
Posts: n/a
Default


wrote in message
...
On 6 Apr 2005 06:55:12 -0700, "fredinstl" wrote:

was the typical black, white and ground.
I connected in: black/brown, white/blue and yellow-green/ground (found
that info on the internet)


What, is that the color code they use in Italy? I thought black,
white and green was used worldwide ????


I don't remember what the colors are but where I work (large plant that
makes polyester material) we got in some replacement cords about 6 feet long
with molder male plugs that had some odd colors. I don't know where they
came from but at the price we paid they should have been first quality. Had
to take an ohmmeter to tell which wire connected to which pin so we could
make them "American".



  #5   Report Post  
fredinstl
 
Posts: n/a
Default

thanks for your answers. I will go buy a multimeter, although I am not
what I should do to correct if I find it doesn't do what you explained
below.

What are the risks of using a non-GFCI outlet (not grounded as I live
in an old house) ? My in-laws are visiting soon, and I'd like to be
able to offer them decent coffee.

thanks. Fred




AutoTracer wrote:
Your expresso machine must have a metal body else it would not need a
grounded cord. Using a multimeter with the unit unplugged check the
resistance between the black and ground and the white and ground,

they
should both be open. Check the resistance between the chassis and

ground,
it should be shorted. Thats a basic test and if it failed, I would

expect
the GFCI to trip always (except if ground is open in which case it

would
never trip).

You say it is only tripping when the motor starts. This implies the

motor
is putting current down the green wire while running. Is it possible

the
green and white wires are swapped for the motor only.

" I opened the expresso machine, tied all connectors I could find,

tried
it again, and it made the GFCI tripped"


What did you do? if you reconnected any wires, you may have created

the
second fault at that time while eliminating an original short in the

old
cord. Swapping black for white or white for ground could be a cause

of
this.

Does the machine also trip regular breakers when the motor starts, if

so it
is not a GFCI condition but an overcurrent protection trip


"fredinstl" wrote in message
oups.com...
thanks for your responses.
I installed a new GFCI, and it was still tripping.
I then tried again to plug it into the other plug I tried before,

and I

realized it actually wasn't a GFCI (I couldn't see it as it was

behind
a 2 - 6 plug adaptor :-( Being in the kitchen, I just assumed it

was
GFCI, but it wasn't).
So now I know my espresso machine is at fault.
I opened the expresso machine, tied all connectors I could find,

tried
it again, and it made the GFCI tripped.
Next thing I tried: changed the cord. I had one at home, so simple
enough. One thing I wasn't sure about is that it had blue, brown

and
yellow-green cables (the espresso is made in Italy), but the cord I

had

was the typical black, white and ground.
I connected in: black/brown, white/blue and yellow-green/ground

(found
that info on the internet)
When plugged in, it doesnt' trip anymore. However, if I activate

the
pump, it trips again.
Any idea before I take it to repair. I probably should do that, but

I
bought it used on ebay, not exactly for cheap, and sent it to

repair
about 5 months ago (they cleaned everything), so my 10 years old
machine already cost me more than a new one :-(
I would hate to fork another $100 on it...


thanks in advance. Fred

PS: I am reposting, as, for some reason, my msg didn't show up as

new.

In my kitchen, my espresso machine is making the GFCI trip. When
plugging something else (such as toaster), it doesn't trip.
Also, plugging the espresso machine to another GFCI in my

kitchen, it

doesnt' trip neither.
So is it due to the espresso machine or shall I just change the

GFCI
?

thanks.



Fred.





  #6   Report Post  
The Real Tom
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On 8 Apr 2005 18:00:40 -0700, "fredinstl" wrote:

thanks for your answers. I will go buy a multimeter, although I am not
what I should do to correct if I find it doesn't do what you explained
below.

What are the risks of using a non-GFCI outlet (not grounded as I live


The reason for using GFCI's is to prevent leakage of small currents
from applicances to grounds. Usually this 'leakage' is through a
person. Therefore GFCI's are installed.

Just a sec, your normal breaker does not protect from electricution.
Example, a 20a breaker does provide ground fault protection(to protect
the conductors), but at 20amps. You can cook a person at 1 amp and
never reach the trip setpoint of the breaker, therfore gfci protection
is required in places where a person can be electricuted(to protect
personnel).


So, IMHO, I would not use a receptale for plug in appliances in my
kitchen.

Now as for no ground. We don't have to go there since I would have
gfci's installed.

tom


in an old house) ? My in-laws are visiting soon, and I'd like to be
able to offer them decent coffee.

thanks. Fred




AutoTracer wrote:
Your expresso machine must have a metal body else it would not need a
grounded cord. Using a multimeter with the unit unplugged check the
resistance between the black and ground and the white and ground,

they
should both be open. Check the resistance between the chassis and

ground,
it should be shorted. Thats a basic test and if it failed, I would

expect
the GFCI to trip always (except if ground is open in which case it

would
never trip).

You say it is only tripping when the motor starts. This implies the

motor
is putting current down the green wire while running. Is it possible

the
green and white wires are swapped for the motor only.

" I opened the expresso machine, tied all connectors I could find,

tried
it again, and it made the GFCI tripped"


What did you do? if you reconnected any wires, you may have created

the
second fault at that time while eliminating an original short in the

old
cord. Swapping black for white or white for ground could be a cause

of
this.

Does the machine also trip regular breakers when the motor starts, if

so it
is not a GFCI condition but an overcurrent protection trip


"fredinstl" wrote in message
oups.com...
thanks for your responses.
I installed a new GFCI, and it was still tripping.
I then tried again to plug it into the other plug I tried before,

and I

realized it actually wasn't a GFCI (I couldn't see it as it was

behind
a 2 - 6 plug adaptor :-( Being in the kitchen, I just assumed it

was
GFCI, but it wasn't).
So now I know my espresso machine is at fault.
I opened the expresso machine, tied all connectors I could find,

tried
it again, and it made the GFCI tripped.
Next thing I tried: changed the cord. I had one at home, so simple
enough. One thing I wasn't sure about is that it had blue, brown

and
yellow-green cables (the espresso is made in Italy), but the cord I

had

was the typical black, white and ground.
I connected in: black/brown, white/blue and yellow-green/ground

(found
that info on the internet)
When plugged in, it doesnt' trip anymore. However, if I activate

the
pump, it trips again.
Any idea before I take it to repair. I probably should do that, but

I
bought it used on ebay, not exactly for cheap, and sent it to

repair
about 5 months ago (they cleaned everything), so my 10 years old
machine already cost me more than a new one :-(
I would hate to fork another $100 on it...


thanks in advance. Fred

PS: I am reposting, as, for some reason, my msg didn't show up as

new.

In my kitchen, my espresso machine is making the GFCI trip. When
plugging something else (such as toaster), it doesn't trip.
Also, plugging the espresso machine to another GFCI in my

kitchen, it

doesnt' trip neither.
So is it due to the espresso machine or shall I just change the

GFCI
?

thanks.


Fred.


  #7   Report Post  
Beeper
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I'm not familiar with expresso machines at all. However if it is a pump that
is involved, it may be blocked causing backpressure which causes it to trip
the breaker. If there is a cleaning procedure for the pump, I'd try that
first before making any decisions on repair/replacement.
"fredinstl" wrote in message
ups.com...
thanks for your answers. I will go buy a multimeter, although I am not
what I should do to correct if I find it doesn't do what you explained
below.

What are the risks of using a non-GFCI outlet (not grounded as I live
in an old house) ? My in-laws are visiting soon, and I'd like to be
able to offer them decent coffee.

thanks. Fred




AutoTracer wrote:
Your expresso machine must have a metal body else it would not need a
grounded cord. Using a multimeter with the unit unplugged check the
resistance between the black and ground and the white and ground,

they
should both be open. Check the resistance between the chassis and

ground,
it should be shorted. Thats a basic test and if it failed, I would

expect
the GFCI to trip always (except if ground is open in which case it

would
never trip).

You say it is only tripping when the motor starts. This implies the

motor
is putting current down the green wire while running. Is it possible

the
green and white wires are swapped for the motor only.

" I opened the expresso machine, tied all connectors I could find,

tried
it again, and it made the GFCI tripped"


What did you do? if you reconnected any wires, you may have created

the
second fault at that time while eliminating an original short in the

old
cord. Swapping black for white or white for ground could be a cause

of
this.

Does the machine also trip regular breakers when the motor starts, if

so it
is not a GFCI condition but an overcurrent protection trip


"fredinstl" wrote in message
oups.com...
thanks for your responses.
I installed a new GFCI, and it was still tripping.
I then tried again to plug it into the other plug I tried before,

and I

realized it actually wasn't a GFCI (I couldn't see it as it was

behind
a 2 - 6 plug adaptor :-( Being in the kitchen, I just assumed it

was
GFCI, but it wasn't).
So now I know my espresso machine is at fault.
I opened the expresso machine, tied all connectors I could find,

tried
it again, and it made the GFCI tripped.
Next thing I tried: changed the cord. I had one at home, so simple
enough. One thing I wasn't sure about is that it had blue, brown

and
yellow-green cables (the espresso is made in Italy), but the cord I

had

was the typical black, white and ground.
I connected in: black/brown, white/blue and yellow-green/ground

(found
that info on the internet)
When plugged in, it doesnt' trip anymore. However, if I activate

the
pump, it trips again.
Any idea before I take it to repair. I probably should do that, but

I
bought it used on ebay, not exactly for cheap, and sent it to

repair
about 5 months ago (they cleaned everything), so my 10 years old
machine already cost me more than a new one :-(
I would hate to fork another $100 on it...


thanks in advance. Fred

PS: I am reposting, as, for some reason, my msg didn't show up as

new.

In my kitchen, my espresso machine is making the GFCI trip. When
plugging something else (such as toaster), it doesn't trip.
Also, plugging the espresso machine to another GFCI in my

kitchen, it

doesnt' trip neither.
So is it due to the espresso machine or shall I just change the

GFCI
?

thanks.


Fred.




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