Im sorry if this isn't the best place to post this but I didn't know
where else to ask.

Here's the situation:

I live/rent in one side of a small duplex in rural northeast Missouri.
I have maybe 900 sf of living space..... two bedrooms and one bath.
And I live alone here. It is heated with a forced air furnace using
natural gas.

Last year my natural gas costs were abt 50 percent higher than normal
as was everyone's I suppose. So Im looking at ways to reduce my costs
and get thru the upcoming winter

I will ask my landlord if he is willing to have more insulation blown
into the attic. That's one thing Im gonna do but I cant guarantee he
will.

But the other thing Im thinking abt doing is closing off the
bedrooms.... shutting the heating vents to them.... moving my bed into
the living room and basically living like Im in a studio apartment as
I will only have the kitchen, bathroom, and bedroom to heat then

I intend to get one portable electric floor heater to heat with. I
might even put a timer on it so as to turn off/on at programmed times.

I guess my question is this: What are the best type of portable
electric heaters? Are the ones that look like radiators and have oil
in them best? Or what abt the ones that are low slung and have fins
on them but have no oil in them?

Any advice on what "type" of electric heater to buy?

Any other ideas abt savings heating costs this winter that one could
do in a rental unit?

In article ,
wrote:

Im sorry if this isn't the best place to post this but I didn't know
where else to ask.

Here's the situation:

I live/rent in one side of a small duplex in rural northeast Missouri.
I have maybe 900 sf of living space..... two bedrooms and one bath.
And I live alone here. It is heated with a forced air furnace using
natural gas.

Last year my natural gas costs were abt 50 percent higher than normal
as was everyone's I suppose. So Im looking at ways to reduce my costs
and get thru the upcoming winter

I will ask my landlord if he is willing to have more insulation blown
into the attic. That's one thing Im gonna do but I cant guarantee he
will.

But the other thing Im thinking abt doing is closing off the
bedrooms.... shutting the heating vents to them.... moving my bed into
the living room and basically living like Im in a studio apartment as
I will only have the kitchen, bathroom, and bedroom to heat then

I intend to get one portable electric floor heater to heat with. I
might even put a timer on it so as to turn off/on at programmed times.

I guess my question is this: What are the best type of portable
electric heaters? Are the ones that look like radiators and have oil
in them best? Or what abt the ones that are low slung and have fins
on them but have no oil in them?

Any advice on what "type" of electric heater to buy?

Any other ideas abt savings heating costs this winter that one could
do in a rental unit?


All electric heaters are "100%" efficient. They convert all the
electricity they use into heat. Oil types will cycle just as often as
any other type...they will however take longer to heat up initially and
will still radiate heat when you turn them off.

I like radiant heaters as they heat the object, not the air. YMMV

Turning off the vents in rooms may do strange things to your forced air
furnace...such as creating too much back pressure (ultimately one would
suppose that it could create [additional] leaks in the ducting.)

Of course there is the shear idiocy of paying for a two bedroom "house"
only to convert it into a studio apt (might be cheaper all around to
just rent a studio apt.)

Finally you can put insulation in your windows.

You're doing the right thing... Closing off rooms and just heating one. I
just heat my bedroom at night with a space heater. Walmart has a 1500 watt
fan heater for around $20. I have several of these, one in each room.

If I'm in the living room, I direct the fan heater at the sofa and will be
warm, yet the whole room is not warm. So I'm only heating the sofa area.

I tape plastic up over the inside of the windows and this helps a lot.
Heavy curtains would also help.

I also have a natural gas furnace, but only fire that up when it gets below
40 degrees. I set that at about 55 degrees. I also turn off the pilot light
for the furnace in the summer which saves about $15 a month.


wrote in message
Im sorry if this isn't the best place to post this but I didn't know
where else to ask.

Here's the situation:

I live/rent in one side of a small duplex in rural northeast Missouri.
I have maybe 900 sf of living space..... two bedrooms and one bath.
And I live alone here. It is heated with a forced air furnace using
natural gas.

Last year my natural gas costs were abt 50 percent higher than normal
as was everyone's I suppose. So Im looking at ways to reduce my costs
and get thru the upcoming winter

I will ask my landlord if he is willing to have more insulation blown
into the attic. That's one thing Im gonna do but I cant guarantee he
will.

But the other thing Im thinking abt doing is closing off the
bedrooms.... shutting the heating vents to them.... moving my bed into
the living room and basically living like Im in a studio apartment as
I will only have the kitchen, bathroom, and bedroom to heat then

I intend to get one portable electric floor heater to heat with. I
might even put a timer on it so as to turn off/on at programmed times.

I guess my question is this: What are the best type of portable
electric heaters? Are the ones that look like radiators and have oil
in them best? Or what abt the ones that are low slung and have fins
on them but have no oil in them?

Any advice on what "type" of electric heater to buy?

Any other ideas abt savings heating costs this winter that one could
do in a rental unit?

You're doing the right thing... Closing off rooms and just heating one. I
just heat my bedroom at night with a space heater. Walmart has a 1500 watt
fan heater for around $20. I have several of these, one in each room.

OK

But Im getting conflicting advice. You seem to be
SAVING money by using portable electric heaters and
"zone" heating

Whereas others are telling me that using portable
electric heaters will cost me MORE than using my
furnace.

Your experience has been that portable electric heater
and zone heating has "worked" for you, correct?

You're doing the right thing... Closing off rooms and just heating one. I
just heat my bedroom at night with a space heater. Walmart has a 1500 watt
fan heater for around $20. I have several of these, one in each room.

If I'm in the living room, I direct the fan heater at the sofa and will be
warm, yet the whole room is not warm. So I'm only heating the sofa area.

I tape plastic up over the inside of the windows and this helps a lot.
Heavy curtains would also help.

I also have a natural gas furnace, but only fire that up when it gets below
40 degrees. I set that at about 55 degrees. I also turn off the pilot light
for the furnace in the summer which saves about $15 a month.

By the way... this above was gonna be my "strategy" as
well

wrote:
You're doing the right thing... Closing off rooms and just heating one. I
just heat my bedroom at night with a space heater. Walmart has a 1500 watt
fan heater for around $20. I have several of these, one in each room.


OK

But Im getting conflicting advice. You seem to be
SAVING money by using portable electric heaters and
"zone" heating

Whereas others are telling me that using portable
electric heaters will cost me MORE than using my
furnace.

Your experience has been that portable electric heater
and zone heating has "worked" for you, correct?

Is electricity or natural gas part of your rent? If the answer is
neither then natural gas gives you more heat in most US cities for the
heat generated per dollar. In another word, if everything else being
equal you'll be spending more dollars to generate the same amount of
heat with electricity than with natural gas. However, if they keep
raising the price of natural gas then one day the balance may tip.

FC

On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 19:14:00 -0500, someone wrote:

Last year my natural gas costs were abt 50 percent higher than normal

How do you establish what "normal" is? Maybe last year was normal,
and the year before it low!

-v.

On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 21:06:42 -0800, someone wrote:

Of course there is the shear idiocy of paying for a two bedroom "house"
only to convert it into a studio apt (might be cheaper all around to
just rent a studio apt.)

Yup. But at least now he/she has a "summer house". And still has
storage (though now 'cold storage') in the unheated rooms in winter!

-v.

On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 13:42:34 -0500, someone wrote:

But Im getting conflicting advice. You seem to be
SAVING money by using portable electric heaters and
"zone" heating

Whereas others are telling me that using portable
electric heaters will cost me MORE than using my
furnace.

Depends on how much you heat.

To obtain the same amount of heat, gas is cheaper than electricity in
terms of dollar per btu.

If using electric heat allows you to heat a much lesser area, then you
will spend less if the area is small enough to offset the greater
$/btu cost of the elctricity.

Personally, I would not want to live like that - sitting in one
semi-warm spot in a cold room in a cold house; what if I wanted to go
somewhere else in the room or the house? - and I am glad I am not so
poor that I have to. It sure sounds miserable to me.

-Vincent

Yup. But at least now he/she has a "summer house". And still has
storage (though now 'cold storage') in the unheated rooms in winter!

Exactly!

At least that was my thoughts

And besides Im not sure a studio apt would rent any less than what Im
paying now

(v) writes:

Personally, I would not want to live like that - sitting in one
semi-warm spot in a cold room in a cold house; what if I wanted to go
somewhere else in the room or the house? - and I am glad I am not so
poor that I have to. It sure sounds miserable to me.

Yes, same here. OTOH, I think there's a middle ground here.... turn
the heat down during the day when you are not at home, and at night
when you are in bed. I use an electric mattress pad to keep my bed
toasty-oasty warm instead. :-) It draws a whopping 70 watts maximum.

And ditto what other people have already said about insulating
windows. If your doors leak cold air, spend a few dollars to buy a
package of weatherstripping, too.

-Sandra

Yes using portable electric heaters instead of using natural gas heating
saves me money.

BUT.... Note that I'm not heating my entire house with the electric
heaters! Just one room at a time.

If I were to heat the entire house with electric -vs- natural gas, then
sure, it would be more expensive.

Now I'm using only one 1500 watt space heater heater most of the time. So
say my electric rate is 9 cents per kilowatt hour. 1500 watts times 24
hours would be 36,000 watts or 36 kilowatt hours per day used for one
electric space heater. This is $3.24 per day. Or $97.20 for 30 days.

But I don't have my space heater on all the time and sometimes I set it at
the lower 1300 watt setting. So I think the highest electric bill I have
ever had was around $80.00**. My neighbors with all electric heat who keep
their entire house 70 degrees have electric bills of $300.00 in the dead of
winter.

I think the trick is to use only one electric space heater, and when that
is not providing enough heat, turn on your natural gas heating to warm up
the house, then turn off the natural gas and use the electric space heater
to keep the room warm. So the space heater is keeping the room warm and
keeping the natural gas heater from kicking on as often.

**I should mention that that I am on a "time of use" electric meter. I get
lower electric rates form 10 pm to 6 am by a few cents a kilowatt hour.
Also I have my electric water heater on a timer so it only runs at 5 am for
enough time for 1 shower. Then I have hot water for a shower, then the
remaining water is warm and lasts the rest of the day without further
heating.


wrote in message
You're doing the right thing... Closing off rooms and just heating one.
I
just heat my bedroom at night with a space heater. Walmart has a 1500
watt
fan heater for around $20. I have several of these, one in each room.

OK

But Im getting conflicting advice. You seem to be
SAVING money by using portable electric heaters and
"zone" heating

Whereas others are telling me that using portable
electric heaters will cost me MORE than using my
furnace.

Your experience has been that portable electric heater
and zone heating has "worked" for you, correct?

Yes using portable electric heaters instead of using natural gas heating
saves me money.

BUT.... Note that I'm not heating my entire house with the electric
heaters! Just one room at a time.

yes... that would be my strategy as well... heat one room at a time

Tell me.... what "type" of electric heater do you have? is it oil
filled and like a radiator?

"Sandra Loosemore" wrote in message
. I use an electric mattress pad to keep my bed
toasty-oasty warm instead. :-) It draws a whopping 70 watts
maximum.

Even better - Get a thick comforter or even two or 3 thinner
ones. Costs nothing to operate and keeps you just as warm.

Bob

In article ,
Bill wrote:
Yes using portable electric heaters instead of using natural gas heating
saves me money.

BUT.... Note that I'm not heating my entire house with the electric
heaters! Just one room at a time.

If I were to heat the entire house with electric -vs- natural gas, then
sure, it would be more expensive.

Now I'm using only one 1500 watt space heater heater most of the time. So
say my electric rate is 9 cents per kilowatt hour. 1500 watts times 24
hours would be 36,000 watts or 36 kilowatt hours per day used for one
electric space heater. This is $3.24 per day. Or $97.20 for 30 days.

But I don't have my space heater on all the time and sometimes I set it at
the lower 1300 watt setting. So I think the highest electric bill I have
ever had was around $80.00**. My neighbors with all electric heat who keep
their entire house 70 degrees have electric bills of $300.00 in the dead of
winter.

I think the trick is to use only one electric space heater, and when that
is not providing enough heat, turn on your natural gas heating to warm up
the house, then turn off the natural gas and use the electric space heater
to keep the room warm. So the space heater is keeping the room warm and
keeping the natural gas heater from kicking on as often.

**I should mention that that I am on a "time of use" electric meter. I get
lower electric rates form 10 pm to 6 am by a few cents a kilowatt hour.
Also I have my electric water heater on a timer so it only runs at 5 am for
enough time for 1 shower. Then I have hot water for a shower, then the
remaining water is warm and lasts the rest of the day without further
heating.


wrote in message
You're doing the right thing... Closing off rooms and just heating one.
I
just heat my bedroom at night with a space heater. Walmart has a 1500
watt
fan heater for around $20. I have several of these, one in each room.

OK

But Im getting conflicting advice. You seem to be
SAVING money by using portable electric heaters and
"zone" heating

Whereas others are telling me that using portable
electric heaters will cost me MORE than using my
furnace.

Your experience has been that portable electric heater
and zone heating has "worked" for you, correct?



Keep in mind--if you live somewhere where the temperatures drop below
freezing during the winter, you may have burst pipes.

I've always been told to never let the temperature of the house get below 55
degrees unless I wanted to risk a burst pipe.

"Bob" writes:

"Sandra Loosemore" wrote in message
. I use an electric mattress pad to keep my bed
toasty-oasty warm instead. :-) It draws a whopping 70 watts
maximum.

Even better - Get a thick comforter or even two or 3 thinner
ones. Costs nothing to operate and keeps you just as warm.

Maybe extra blankets keep *you* just as warm, but not me. Guys seem
to generate more body heat of their own than I do. There are times
when my feet just can't get warm no matter how many blankets I pile
on, and I can't sleep when my feet are cold. Before I got the
electric mattress pad I used to go to bed with a hot water bottle for
my feet instead. Not fun if it springs a leak, though.

-Sandra of the frozen flippers

"Sandra Loosemore" wrote in message
...
"Bob" writes:

"Sandra Loosemore" wrote in message
. I use an electric mattress pad to keep my bed
toasty-oasty warm instead. :-) It draws a whopping 70
watts
maximum.

Even better - Get a thick comforter or even two or 3 thinner
ones. Costs nothing to operate and keeps you just as warm.

Maybe extra blankets keep *you* just as warm, but not me. Guys
seem
to generate more body heat of their own than I do. There are
times
when my feet just can't get warm no matter how many blankets I
pile
on, and I can't sleep when my feet are cold. Before I got the
electric mattress pad I used to go to bed with a hot water
bottle for
my feet instead. Not fun if it springs a leak, though.

A good comforter will beat a lot of "blankets".

Bob

Thus said Sandra Loosemore :
"Bob" writes:
Even better - Get a thick comforter or even two or 3 thinner
ones. Costs nothing to operate and keeps you just as warm.

Maybe extra blankets keep *you* just as warm, but not me.

A comforter is not a blanket.

Guys seem
to generate more body heat of their own than I do. There are times
when my feet just can't get warm no matter how many blankets I pile
on, and I can't sleep when my feet are cold.

I'm the same way, but I found it was adequately addressed by tucking the
sheet in at the foot of the bed so that cold air can't come in the
bottom. Getting an oversized comforter (e.g. a king sized one on a
queen sized bed) also gives more overhang on the sides which helps with
warmth.

If I were still cold with that, I'd wear socks to bed, but I generally
haven't found that to be an issue.

Before I got the
electric mattress pad I used to go to bed with a hot water bottle for
my feet instead.

Whatever works for you; I've had electric mattress pads and I didn't
like them. The feeling of puffy down on top of me is just much more,
if you'll forgive the pun, comforting.

In article ,
Sandra Loosemore wrote:

"Bob" writes:

"Sandra Loosemore" wrote in message
. I use an electric mattress pad to keep my bed
toasty-oasty warm instead. :-) It draws a whopping 70 watts
maximum.

Even better - Get a thick comforter or even two or 3 thinner
ones. Costs nothing to operate and keeps you just as warm.

Maybe extra blankets keep *you* just as warm, but not me. Guys seem
to generate more body heat of their own than I do. There are times
when my feet just can't get warm no matter how many blankets I pile
on, and I can't sleep when my feet are cold. Before I got the
electric mattress pad I used to go to bed with a hot water bottle for
my feet instead. Not fun if it springs a leak, though.

-Sandra of the frozen flippers

Do you have or been checked for diabetes? Sounds like it could be
neuropathy.

"Bob" writes:

A good comforter will beat a lot of "blankets".

That's not the point -- adding insulation to a cold object won't make
it any warmer. :-) Seriously, the purpose of the electric mattress
pad is to warm the bed itself before I climb in, so that it doesn't
suck away all my body heat and leave me shivering with my feet feeling
like blocks of ice.

-Sandra the cynic

That's not the point -- adding insulation to a cold object won't make
it any warmer. :-) Seriously, the purpose of the electric mattress
pad is to warm the bed itself before I climb in, so that it doesn't
suck away all my body heat and leave me shivering with my feet feeling
like blocks of ice.

So do you normally turn the electric mattress pad OFF
once you get into bed?

Also any advice on best electric mattress pad to buy?

Whatever works for you; I've had electric mattress pads and I didn't
like them. The feeling of puffy down on top of me is just much more,
if you'll forgive the pun, comforting.

Why does it have to be one or the other?

Why cant you use the electric mattress pad BEFORE going
to bed to heat the bed up.

Then turn it off once in bed and sleep under a nice
puffy down comforter?

writes:

So do you normally turn the electric mattress pad OFF
once you get into bed?

If I leave it on all night, I usually do wake up feeling overheated at
some point, so I usually try to turn it off at some point when I'm
feeling comfortably warm but before I put my bedtime book away and go
to sleep.

Also any advice on best electric mattress pad to buy?

I don't know that there's much choice in manufacturers -- it took me a
lot of shopping before I found one in a store. It's made by Westpoint
Stevens. Has adjustable temperature controls and an automatic shut-off
after 10 hours, I think.

-Sandra

On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 18:53:02 -0500, Karl Kingston
wrote:


Keep in mind--if you live somewhere where the temperatures drop below
freezing during the winter, you may have burst pipes.

I've always been told to never let the temperature of the house get
below 55
degrees unless I wanted to risk a burst pipe.


Good rule of thumb assuming you have water pipes running thru any exterior
walls because it is much cooler there. If you KNOW where your pipes run
and nothing is thru above-ground exterior walls then you could go lower,
but who wants to live in a 55% room?

"Bill" writes:

Now I'm using only one 1500 watt space heater heater most of the time. So
say my electric rate is 9 cents per kilowatt hour. 1500 watts times 24
hours would be 36,000 watts or 36 kilowatt hours per day used for one
electric space heater. This is $3.24 per day. Or $97.20 for 30 days.

I don't think I've ever spent more than $100 a month for natural gas to
heat my entire two story house in Minnesota! Is $100 for electricity real
cheaper than heating the whole house?

Now, my house is three years old with all the latest energy saving
techniques. 6" walls, airtight construction, and Andersen windows. I
also have zoned heating so the first floor and basement are kept at 60
degrees at night while the 2nd floor is at 65 degrees for sleeping.
Everything is kept at 60 degrees while I'm at work.

Brian Elfert

I don't think I've ever spent more than $100 a month for natural gas to
heat my entire two story house in Minnesota! Is $100 for electricity real
cheaper than heating the whole house?

Not sure what your point is

On 29 Sep 2004 18:33:01 GMT, someone wrote:


Everything is kept at 60 degrees while I'm at work.

Do you live alone? At one time I had a large old house with just me
and my sone, and we had a great (low) heat bill because we left
together in the morning, returned together in the evening, and were
often gone all weekend. While we were out we set the heat way way
down.

Not everybody has that option. Its easy to have a low heating bill,
when you are not heating most of the house much of the time.

-v.

My house is 70 years old and mostly without insulation. (Am working on
installing it...)

"Brian Elfert" wrote in message
"Bill" writes:

Now I'm using only one 1500 watt space heater heater most of the time.
So
say my electric rate is 9 cents per kilowatt hour. 1500 watts times 24
hours would be 36,000 watts or 36 kilowatt hours per day used for one
electric space heater. This is $3.24 per day. Or $97.20 for 30 days.

I don't think I've ever spent more than $100 a month for natural gas to
heat my entire two story house in Minnesota! Is $100 for electricity
real
cheaper than heating the whole house?

Now, my house is three years old with all the latest energy saving
techniques. 6" walls, airtight construction, and Andersen windows. I
also have zoned heating so the first floor and basement are kept at 60
degrees at night while the 2nd floor is at 65 degrees for sleeping.
Everything is kept at 60 degrees while I'm at work.

Brian Elfert

On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 23:23:51 -0700, someone wrote:

My house is 70 years old and mostly without insulation. (Am working on
installing it...)

Shoulda been done long ago - but better late than never!


I don't think I've ever spent more than $100 a month for natural gas to
heat my entire two story house in Minnesota! Is $100 for electricity
real cheaper than heating the whole house? cut

Brian Elfert

Well Brian, my house is also new 2x6 construction with good windows,
and it has 4 heating zones on the main oil-fired boiler, plus there is
electric heat in a separate 2-room office suit that is only used
intermittantly. I suppose we could have run the main heat into there
also, but we were having a lot of zones as it was - there are also 2
other zones for indirect fired domesic hot water tanks. Besides, I
kinda liked having a separate heat in part of the house in case the
main unit went down (but if the power is out, none of them work).

My electric bill is usually slightly under $100/mo. in summer, and 2x
that in winter. But then we have an electric kitchen, outside lot
lighting, electric heat in the whirlpool tub, and various booster heat
and fans in the bathrooms. We come and go at various times during the
day, and when home don't like to be confined to one area of the house,
so we don't turn the heat up and down on a part-day basis.

Anyway, just the other end of the range for comparison, when I had
different living circumstances, my utility bills were like yours but
not everybody is in a position to do that, and it doesn't necessarily
mean there is anything wrong with their house.

-v

"GaryRW" wrote in message
newspseujzmnyzqpvr1@athlon04...
On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 18:53:02 -0500, Karl Kingston
wrote:


Keep in mind--if you live somewhere where the temperatures drop below
freezing during the winter, you may have burst pipes.

I've always been told to never let the temperature of the house get
below 55
degrees unless I wanted to risk a burst pipe.


Good rule of thumb assuming you have water pipes running thru any exterior
walls because it is much cooler there. If you KNOW where your pipes run
and nothing is thru above-ground exterior walls then you could go lower,
but who wants to live in a 55% room?

You can't "live in" all the rooms at one time unless you have 2-4 rooms,
perhaps, but there is a level of comfort which in my opinion shouldn't go
under 60 even if you aren't living in them (IOW -- sitting around vs.
walking around in your house). This level of comfort should be for the
person, and if anyone has a damp house this will keep all goods from
molding, hopefully. I've heard the 55 degrees is an insurance number that
one should probably abide by if one leaves the house in winter in order to
collect on broken pipes.

"Brian Elfert" wrote in message
...
"Bill" writes:

Now I'm using only one 1500 watt space heater heater most of the time. So
say my electric rate is 9 cents per kilowatt hour. 1500 watts times 24
hours would be 36,000 watts or 36 kilowatt hours per day used for one
electric space heater. This is $3.24 per day. Or $97.20 for 30 days.

I don't think I've ever spent more than $100 a month for natural gas to
heat my entire two story house in Minnesota! Is $100 for electricity real
cheaper than heating the whole house?

Now, my house is three years old with all the latest energy saving
techniques. 6" walls, airtight construction, and Andersen windows. I
also have zoned heating so the first floor and basement are kept at 60
degrees at night while the 2nd floor is at 65 degrees for sleeping.
Everything is kept at 60 degrees while I'm at work.

Think I'll move to Minnesota -- sounds like a deal to me!
Dee
From Virginia.