Is there a safe way to hook up the drain from a water softener into a houses
main PVC drain in the basement? The installation manual directs that an air
gap be maintained so that the water softener will not be able to draw from
the drain source. The problem I have is that the main PVC drain is not
accessible to be able to move it around, since it is mostly concealed behind
finished basement walls. Only about three feet is exposed where it exits
the basement. Is there a sort of fitting that can be installed into the
main PVC drain that does not require the drain to be moved (like a section
of it can be cut out, then the new fitting installed)?

Any suggestions appreciated.

Location : Pennsylvania
3" dia. pvc

Steve

S R wrote:

Is there a safe way to hook up the drain from a water softener into a houses
main PVC drain in the basement? The installation manual directs that an air
gap be maintained so that the water softener will not be able to draw from
the drain source. The problem I have is that the main PVC drain is not
accessible to be able to move it around, since it is mostly concealed behind
finished basement walls. Only about three feet is exposed where it exits
the basement. Is there a sort of fitting that can be installed into the
main PVC drain that does not require the drain to be moved (like a section
of it can be cut out, then the new fitting installed)?

Any suggestions appreciated.

Location : Pennsylvania
3" dia. pvc

Steve

The problems associated with what you are trying to do are
far, far more serious than how to cut into the pipe.

The reason the mfr is so explicit is that there is the
*real* potential for contaminating your drinking water
with sewage.

Yes, the pipe can be cut and then rubber couplings (Fernco) used
to connect a fitting in between. But then this connection
must have a P-trap and further a venting arrangement.
Then an air gap between the trap and waste connection from
softener.

Is there a laundry tub somewhere that could receive the waste?
The discharge could be above the tub rim to provide an air gap.
Even if you have to install a small sump pump to handle it,
this would be better than a jury-rigged hookup to the sewer.
Or a floor drain?

Jim

Thank you for the reply.

The exact problem is my friend's basement was finished (to the painted
drywall and carpet stage) before purchasing the softener. So there is no
convenient way to run the discharge without going overhead somewhere. Also,
his sump pump is not hooked up yet. That would be the natural place to run
to.

I appreciate the info. on the venting. That I had not considered. I was
aware of needing the P trap. I still have a reservation of recommending the
p trap, however, since my water softener's discharge is quite fast. My
discharge goes right into the basement sump pump. His softener is the exact
same model.

I believe his reservation for installing it might have been a high install
estimate. I have not been told this. I think with what you have said, it
is best to have a pro install it.

Thanks,

Steve




"Speedy Jim" wrote in message ...
S R wrote:

Is there a safe way to hook up the drain from a water softener into a
houses
main PVC drain in the basement? The installation manual directs that an
air
gap be maintained so that the water softener will not be able to draw
from
the drain source. The problem I have is that the main PVC drain is not
accessible to be able to move it around, since it is mostly concealed
behind
finished basement walls. Only about three feet is exposed where it
exits
the basement. Is there a sort of fitting that can be installed into the
main PVC drain that does not require the drain to be moved (like a
section
of it can be cut out, then the new fitting installed)?

Any suggestions appreciated.

Location : Pennsylvania
3" dia. pvc

Steve

The problems associated with what you are trying to do are
far, far more serious than how to cut into the pipe.

The reason the mfr is so explicit is that there is the
*real* potential for contaminating your drinking water
with sewage.

Yes, the pipe can be cut and then rubber couplings (Fernco) used
to connect a fitting in between. But then this connection
must have a P-trap and further a venting arrangement.
Then an air gap between the trap and waste connection from
softener.

Is there a laundry tub somewhere that could receive the waste?
The discharge could be above the tub rim to provide an air gap.
Even if you have to install a small sump pump to handle it,
this would be better than a jury-rigged hookup to the sewer.
Or a floor drain?

Jim

"S R" no email @ no spam.com wrote:

Also, his sump pump is not hooked up yet. That would be the natural place to run to.

Be careful - sump pumps tend to drain out to a yard as most communities do not
allow them to be tied into the sanitary sewer system. Discharge water from a
softener is salty and will kill vegetation.

Thanks for the reply. I will check into where our sump pump is drained.

My friend's basement is bone dry. I was told their sump pump has not run in
the three years they have been there. So even if we could have run the
softener discharge to the sump pump, then we would have to finish hooking up
the sump pump.


Stephen R.


"Clark W. Griswold, Jr." 73115 dot 1041 at compuserve dot com wrote in
message ...
"S R" no email @ no spam.com wrote:

Also, his sump pump is not hooked up yet. That would be the natural
place to run to.

Be careful - sump pumps tend to drain out to a yard as most communities do
not
allow them to be tied into the sanitary sewer system. Discharge water from
a
softener is salty and will kill vegetation.

"Speedy Jim" wrote in message ...
S R wrote:

Is there a safe way to hook up the drain from a water softener into a
houses
main PVC drain in the basement? The installation manual directs that an
air
gap be maintained so that the water softener will not be able to draw
from
the drain source. The problem I have is that the main PVC drain is not
accessible to be able to move it around, since it is mostly concealed
behind
finished basement walls. Only about three feet is exposed where it
exits
the basement. Is there a sort of fitting that can be installed into the
main PVC drain that does not require the drain to be moved (like a
section
of it can be cut out, then the new fitting installed)?

Any suggestions appreciated.

Location : Pennsylvania
3" dia. pvc

Steve

The problems associated with what you are trying to do are
far, far more serious than how to cut into the pipe.

The reason the mfr is so explicit is that there is the
*real* potential for contaminating your drinking water
with sewage.

Yes, the pipe can be cut and then rubber couplings (Fernco) used
to connect a fitting in between. But then this connection
must have a P-trap and further a venting arrangement.
Then an air gap between the trap and waste connection from
softener.

Is there a laundry tub somewhere that could receive the waste?
The discharge could be above the tub rim to provide an air gap.
Even if you have to install a small sump pump to handle it,
this would be better than a jury-rigged hookup to the sewer.
Or a floor drain?

Jim

Jim, a vent on a water filter or softener drain line connection! Really.
I've installed a couple thousand drain lines to sewer/septic and other
assorted household drain lines and never needed a vent! There is no code
stating such is there? I've never seen any type of vent or mention of one
anywhere; and I do more than a fair amount of reading.

The flow rate for all POE (point of entry) automatic or manual backwashed
and/or regenerated residential equipment is flow controlled. The average 1
cuft softener will flow at no more than 2.5 gpm and most will 1.5-2.0. The
largest say 4 cuft softener 5 gpm. A large filter 5-7 gpm. Those figures are
for backwash and rinse cycles only, the rest of the time the flow is much
less. he time of the flow is also controlled and usually 12 minutes is the
longest. The ID of all of those drain lines is not larger than 1/2" ID and
they flow into a larger pipe with 3/4" being the minimum if an air gap is
constructed, otherwise although it is wrong, some are plumbed (plumbers are
the biggest offenders in my experience) direct to the larger pipe and that
is a no no/a definite cross connection between potable and sewage waters.

For connection to3-4" main sewer lines there are a number of saddle tees
available, any average plumbing supply or hardware store (here in PA) has
them. Build a trap of 3/4" sch 40 PVC and maintain a 1-2" air gap between
the end of the softener drain line and the 3/4" stand pipe. Any water
treatment dealer can get you an approved air gap of at least 2-3 different
types for different sizes of stand pipe or even an inline air gap (installs
in the 1/2" ID drain line). Check them out at www.airgap.com.

Gary
Quality Water Associates
www.qualitywaterassociates.com
Bulletin Board www.qualitywaterassociates.com/phpBB2