Hi All,

I am new here and have just bought my first house. I wanted to see if
I could get some advice. I am doing some kitchen remodeling and I am
trying to select cabinets. The guys doing the work highly recommends
a fellow who custom makes cabinets. I met him and he seems really
nice. Have not inspected any of his work, but I trust the people
recommending him. The only thing is that the cabinets for 30 linear
feet cost 12K! This is for cherry cabinets (they are not all Cherry
as I guess the insides and shelves are particle board?) and its just
the basics.

I looked at home depot, and KraftMaid is around 5 grand. I was told
the KraftMaid line at home depot is of lower quality and is made just
for home depot. It will cost 1600 for my guys to install the
KraftMaid cabinets (or whatever else I buy).
Thus we are talking about 6600 vs 12,000. Does anyone have thought or
advice on this?????

I would really appreciate it!

Lynn

Kitchen cabinetry is a term that refers to a bunch of shelves, doors and
drawers that are :
(1) designed to hold specific items, efficiently, in the least amount of
space,
(2) impress everyone,
(3) cost a fortune.

"Cheap" Kitchen cabinetry is a violation of rule #2 and #3.
"Standard" Kitchen cabinetry is a violation of rule #1.
"Custom" Kitchen cabinetry is the only solution... and that's why it's
expensive.

If one was not interested in #2 and #3, one could whip up a set of custom
kitchen cabinets for about $150-$200 in plywood (double that if one uses
furniture grade plywood). However, only ex-hippies will find them
interesting. :-)

An intermediate approach would be replace doors, etc, with new doors and
drawers from :
http://www.woodcabinetdoors.com/

HTH

Lynn wrote:
Hi All,

I am new here and have just bought my first house. I wanted to see if
I could get some advice. I am doing some kitchen remodeling and I am
trying to select cabinets. The guys doing the work highly recommends
a fellow who custom makes cabinets. I met him and he seems really
nice. Have not inspected any of his work, but I trust the people
recommending him. The only thing is that the cabinets for 30 linear
feet cost 12K! This is for cherry cabinets (they are not all Cherry
as I guess the insides and shelves are particle board?) and its just
the basics.

I looked at home depot, and KraftMaid is around 5 grand. I was told
the KraftMaid line at home depot is of lower quality and is made just
for home depot. It will cost 1600 for my guys to install the
KraftMaid cabinets (or whatever else I buy).
Thus we are talking about 6600 vs 12,000. Does anyone have thought or
advice on this?????

I would really appreciate it!

Lynn

If you like the KraftMaid cabinets you found at Home Depot, I'd suggest
going with them. However, I've not had any personal experience with
KraftMaid (Home Depot's version or otherwise) so I can't give you a
thumbs-up or thumbs-down. I've also never had any experience with
custom-made cherry cabinets, either. But I imagine I'd be hard-pressed to
find a $5,400 difference between the two.

--Martha



In article ,
(Lynn) wrote:

Hi All,

I am new here and have just bought my first house. I wanted to see if
I could get some advice. I am doing some kitchen remodeling and I am
trying to select cabinets. The guys doing the work highly recommends
a fellow who custom makes cabinets. I met him and he seems really
nice. Have not inspected any of his work, but I trust the people
recommending him. The only thing is that the cabinets for 30 linear
feet cost 12K! This is for cherry cabinets (they are not all Cherry
as I guess the insides and shelves are particle board?) and its just
the basics.

I looked at home depot, and KraftMaid is around 5 grand. I was told
the KraftMaid line at home depot is of lower quality and is made just
for home depot. It will cost 1600 for my guys to install the
KraftMaid cabinets (or whatever else I buy).
Thus we are talking about 6600 vs 12,000. Does anyone have thought or
advice on this?????

I would really appreciate it!

Lynn

On 17 Mar 2004 06:11:06 -0800, someone wrote:

Thus we are talking about 6600 vs 12,000. Does anyone have thought or
advice on this?????

Look in some places OTHER than Home Depot. You have their price as a
lower limit. You have the custom guy's price as an upper limit. Try
some other kitchen suppliers. You can get "standard" cherry cabinets
in a variety of sizes, styles and features. You do not have to go
"custom". Look at some standard ones and see if they would satisfy
you.

I would not allow any particle board shelves inside a custom cherry
cabinet. They don't have to be cherry but at least let them be
furniture grade plywood. If they are indeed "custom" you can have
what you want, not particle board with a question mark.

-v.

"Lynn" wrote in message
om...
Hi All,

I am new here and have just bought my first house. I wanted to see if
I could get some advice. I am doing some kitchen remodeling and I am

snip
I looked at home depot, and KraftMaid is around 5 grand. I was told
the KraftMaid line at home depot is of lower quality and is made just
for home depot. It will cost 1600 for my guys to install the
KraftMaid cabinets (or whatever else I buy).
Thus we are talking about 6600 vs 12,000. Does anyone have thought or
advice on this?????

I would really appreciate it!

Lynn

Custom cabinets are fine when made by a good cabinet maker, but they are
really necessary only if you have special sizing requirements. For example,
cabinets made my Kraftmaid and other standard suppliers come only in 3"
width increments. If you need, say, a 22" wide cabinet, then custom
cabinets are your only choice. Otherwise, you'll probably find "assembly
line" cabinets to be a better use of your money.

I have Kraftmaid cabinets purchased from Home Depot. There are approxmately
30 feet each of base and wall cabinets. The were delivered exactly exactly
as ordered, on time. The only problem that I encountered was that one
cabinet door had a small crack in it. I called Kraftmaid and they promptly
manufactured and shipped a new door. The cabinets are now 5 years old and
they look and work like new.

As far as I can tell, the Kraftmaid cabinets that Home Depot sells are
exactly the same as the Kraftmaid cabinets from anywhere else. You just
have to specify exactly the same features to be able to compare the prices.
For example, the Kraftmaid cabinets are available with either particle board
or plywood sides and back. The plywood costs extra (20% extra, if I
remember right), and many of the Home Depot people don't mention this
upgrade. In my case, my carpenter recommended the upgrade, and I decided to
go with his recommendation.

If you have a real contractor doing the installation, though, he should be
able to get a better price from his supplier. A contractor that I used
recently to do some home improvements (not the same one who did my kitchen)
told me that he gets 40% to 60% off of list price for Kraftmaid and other
major brands from his supplier, then marks them up from the supplier price
by 20% to 40%, and the customer still comes out better than if the customer
purchased the cabinets from Home Depot. If you are using a very small
contractor, he might not be able to get these types of "wholesale" prices,
though.

Home Depot and Lowe's both sell Kraftmaid. HD's own line is called Mills
Pride. The Kraftmaid cabinets are considered better quality. HD also carries
some by Thomasville Furniture which are more expensive. Also you can check on
the thermofoil kind...think there is a web site called www.Landmark.com. They
usually make the cabinet doors and drawer fronts and sell them to local cabinet
makers. They are less expensive than wood - but they are 3/4 In. plywood
covered in something and baked on.

I bought cabinets last year and ended up getting a local cabinet maker to do
the job. He used 3/4 in.plywood for the cabinets instead of particle board.
His prices were quite reasonable.

I know people who have bought from HD and they were satisfied with everything.

Dorothy

Comments inserted

"You Asked" wrote in message
Custom cabinets are fine when made by a good cabinet maker, but they are
really necessary only if you have special sizing requirements. For
example,
cabinets made my Kraftmaid and other standard suppliers come only in 3"
width increments. If you need, say, a 22" wide cabinet, then custom
cabinets are your only choice. Otherwise, you'll probably find "assembly
line" cabinets to be a better use of your money.

Even when building custom cabinets, filler strips are used. Increments of
3" is standard even with custom cabinets. I've never seen the need for a
22" cabinet or other odd size not of standard increment.


As far as I can tell, the Kraftmaid cabinets that Home Depot sells are
exactly the same as the Kraftmaid cabinets from anywhere else. You just
have to specify exactly the same features to be able to compare the
prices.
For example, the Kraftmaid cabinets are available with either particle
board
or plywood sides and back. The plywood costs extra (20% extra, if I
remember right), and many of the Home Depot people don't mention this
upgrade. In my case, my carpenter recommended the upgrade, and I decided
to
go with his recommendation.

Kraftmaid may be close to specifications of other retail outlets compared to
HD, but are not of comparable quality bought through a wholesaler. In fact,
Kraftmaid will not sell HD the same quality they sell to wholesalers. For
instance, face frames through a wholesaler are a true 3/4" solid wood, check
yours and I would be willing to bet they are either 5/8" or 11/16". The
hanging rails on wall units are true 1/2" wood when purchased through
wholesaler, I do believe they are composite through HD. On base cabinets
they are a true 3/4" wood through a wholesaler. The doors are thicker bought
through a wholesaler. The floor of the wall cabinets are a true 1/2"
Natural Birch compared to 3/8". The drawers are true wood being 3/4"
w/dovetailed sides with a 3/16" plywood floor. These are a few differences
off the top of my head.

Of course the upgrades through a wholesaler are almost endless. Upgrade to
all plywood construction, furniture grade end panels and shelving. Roll out
shelving, full depth drawers, you can configure the drawers to single or
double. Inverted frames (drawer on btm vs. top drawer). Increase depth of
wall cabinets to 15". Glass door inserts w/safety or tempered with about 1/2
dozen different styles. Custom arched feet for the bases with about 1/2
dozen styles to choose from. Voiding the center stile on double door base
cabinets. Finger pull routing. Spice racks on interior of doors. Double door
peninsula's (doors on both sides for the island applications). Another nice
thing about ordering through wholesaler, you can purchase quarts of exact
matching stain that was used to stain your cabinets for use on additonal
woodwork like baseboards/crown and custom work you build. Anyways, you get
the picture, there is a huge difference.

If you have a real contractor doing the installation, though, he should be
able to get a better price from his supplier. A contractor that I used
recently to do some home improvements (not the same one who did my
kitchen)
told me that he gets 40% to 60% off of list price for Kraftmaid and other
major brands from his supplier, then marks them up from the supplier price
by 20% to 40%, and the customer still comes out better than if the
customer
purchased the cabinets from Home Depot. If you are using a very small
contractor, he might not be able to get these types of "wholesale" prices,
though.

The norm around here is a multiplier of .3 or 70% off retail. It's well
worth puchasing from a wholesaler over the retailer, definately more bang
for your buck. But never expect a contractor to give you his full discount,
he has to charge for taking on responsibility of ordering etc. This is
where they cover some of their overhead.

Kraftmaid may be close to specifications of other retail outlets compared
to
HD, but are not of comparable quality bought through a wholesaler. In
fact,
Kraftmaid will not sell HD the same quality they sell to wholesalers. For
instance, face frames through a wholesaler are a true 3/4" solid wood,
check
yours and I would be willing to bet they are either 5/8" or 11/16". The
hanging rails on wall units are true 1/2" wood when purchased through
wholesaler, I do believe they are composite through HD. On base cabinets
they are a true 3/4" wood through a wholesaler. The doors are thicker
bought
through a wholesaler. The floor of the wall cabinets are a true 1/2"
Natural Birch compared to 3/8". The drawers are true wood being 3/4"
w/dovetailed sides with a 3/16" plywood floor. These are a few
differences
off the top of my head.

What crap. Where do these myths come from? I bought Kraftmaid cabinets
from HD, and they have full 3/4 face frames, solid wood "hanging rails",
etc., etc., blah, blah, blah. Before I bought, I shopped several
custom/wholesale places; the quality was similar, but HD was cheaper.

"Steve L" wrote in message

What crap. Where do these myths come from? I bought Kraftmaid cabinets
from HD, and they have full 3/4 face frames, solid wood "hanging rails",
etc., etc., blah, blah, blah. Before I bought, I shopped several
custom/wholesale places; the quality was similar, but HD was cheaper.

You sir have no clue. I could ramble off a bunch of #'s for you to check,
and I guarantee HD or any other retail outlet can't get _any_ of them. The
fact remains the quality isn't similar.

"Steve L" wrote in message
What crap. Where do these myths come from? I bought Kraftmaid cabinets
from HD, and they have full 3/4 face frames, solid wood "hanging rails",
etc., etc., blah, blah, blah. Before I bought, I shopped several
custom/wholesale places; the quality was similar, but HD was cheaper.

You needn't get out the tape measure. Simply open a drawer, notice your's
are glued and stapled. Through a wholesaler they come standard dovetailed
and a true 3/4" solid wood for the drawer, not the heavy 5/8" like you have.

It's no secret how retail outlets can't order the same as specialty such as
wholesalers. I'm sitting here with books from Kraftmaid, Pergo, Bruce and a
couple others. The books are clearly marked with HD and Lowes, you can not
order the same material/item/specification as you can from the wholesaler.
Try to buy or even look at Pergo Tiles at a retailer, they don't have them
and can't get them, same goes for the Pergo Select.

Gunner wrote:
"Steve L" wrote in message
What crap. Where do these myths come from? I bought Kraftmaid
cabinets from HD, and they have full 3/4 face frames, solid wood
"hanging rails", etc., etc., blah, blah, blah. Before I bought, I
shopped several custom/wholesale places; the quality was similar,
but HD was cheaper.

You needn't get out the tape measure. Simply open a drawer, notice
your's are glued and stapled. Through a wholesaler they come
standard dovetailed and a true 3/4" solid wood for the drawer, not
the heavy 5/8" like you have.

It's no secret how retail outlets can't order the same as specialty
such as wholesalers. I'm sitting here with books from Kraftmaid,
Pergo, Bruce and a couple others. The books are clearly marked with
HD and Lowes, you can not order the same material/item/specification
as you can from the wholesaler.

You say you have a Lowes Kraftmaid catalog, huh? Then look on pages 110-111.
Hmmm...solid, 3/4" face frames. Hanging rails: solid wood (1/2" for wall;
3/4" for base units). Drawers: 3/4" hardwood w/ 4-sided dovetail
construction. Etc., etc., etc.

Two catalogs- one from Kraftmaid, one from Lowes. Construction methods are
identical in both.

Oh, I forgot. The Kraftmaid catalog is dated 11/03; the Lowes one is 12/03.

"Retiredff" wrote in message

You say you have a Lowes Kraftmaid catalog, huh? Then look on pages
110-111.
Hmmm...solid, 3/4" face frames. Hanging rails: solid wood (1/2" for wall;
3/4" for base units). Drawers: 3/4" hardwood w/ 4-sided dovetail
construction. Etc., etc., etc.

Two catalogs- one from Kraftmaid, one from Lowes. Construction methods are
identical in both.

Oh, I forgot. The Kraftmaid catalog is dated 11/03; the Lowes one is
12/03.

Hmmmm. I just looked in the 12/03 Idea Book from Lowes. I'll have to eat
my words as far as they go for the construction, it has changed. They still
can't get the Traditional/Specialty line which wholesalers carry, they must
carry their own line built to their specs. Wholesalers can't sell Lowe's
line either. Also, at 40% above wholesale costs, no doubt I wouldn't
consider their product even though the specifications has been brought up.

Wrong again, "sir"; I have lots of clues. Dovetails, solid wood "hanging
rails", etc. I know what I know, and the quality is similar. I've
installed (and built) many cabinets.

Again, why the myth that HD and others can't get certain products from the
manufacturer? Why would they NOT sell to HD & Lowe's? Huge volume
there....



"Gunner" wrote in message
...

"Steve L" wrote in message

What crap. Where do these myths come from? I bought Kraftmaid
cabinets
from HD, and they have full 3/4 face frames, solid wood "hanging rails",
etc., etc., blah, blah, blah. Before I bought, I shopped several
custom/wholesale places; the quality was similar, but HD was cheaper.

You sir have no clue. I could ramble off a bunch of #'s for you to
check,
and I guarantee HD or any other retail outlet can't get _any_ of them.
The
fact remains the quality isn't similar.

And what do you mean, "5//8" like you have"? How would you know what my
kitchen drawers look like? Do I need to post a pic with a freakin ruler?
Good grief; get over yourself. I can only assume that you have a connection
with these "wholeslaers" of whom you speak.


"Gunner" wrote in message
...

"Steve L" wrote in message
What crap. Where do these myths come from? I bought Kraftmaid
cabinets
from HD, and they have full 3/4 face frames, solid wood "hanging rails",
etc., etc., blah, blah, blah. Before I bought, I shopped several
custom/wholesale places; the quality was similar, but HD was cheaper.

You needn't get out the tape measure. Simply open a drawer, notice your's
are glued and stapled. Through a wholesaler they come standard dovetailed
and a true 3/4" solid wood for the drawer, not the heavy 5/8" like you
have.

It's no secret how retail outlets can't order the same as specialty such
as
wholesalers. I'm sitting here with books from Kraftmaid, Pergo, Bruce and
a
couple others. The books are clearly marked with HD and Lowes, you can
not
order the same material/item/specification as you can from the wholesaler.
Try to buy or even look at Pergo Tiles at a retailer, they don't have them
and can't get them, same goes for the Pergo Select.

WOW, looks like you touched a nerve here. The best thing you can do is shop
around, see what your wallet can handle, decide what your taste for quality
is and end up somewhere in the middle. Stay away from stapled together
cabinets and look for tight well made units. Good Luck!!!

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Babbling Brook Photography
Quality Framed Photography of
the Great Outdoors.
30 Day Money Back Guarantee!
http://www.babblingbrookphotography.com
Email

"Lynn" wrote in message
om...
Hi All,

I am new here and have just bought my first house. I wanted to see if
I could get some advice. I am doing some kitchen remodeling and I am
trying to select cabinets. The guys doing the work highly recommends
a fellow who custom makes cabinets. I met him and he seems really
nice. Have not inspected any of his work, but I trust the people
recommending him. The only thing is that the cabinets for 30 linear
feet cost 12K! This is for cherry cabinets (they are not all Cherry
as I guess the insides and shelves are particle board?) and its just
the basics.

I looked at home depot, and KraftMaid is around 5 grand. I was told
the KraftMaid line at home depot is of lower quality and is made just
for home depot. It will cost 1600 for my guys to install the
KraftMaid cabinets (or whatever else I buy).
Thus we are talking about 6600 vs 12,000. Does anyone have thought or
advice on this?????

I would really appreciate it!

Lynn

Steve L wrote:

Why would they NOT sell to HD & Lowe's? Huge volume
there....

I have no idea which (if either) of you guys is "right" but it is quite
often the case that manufacturers make exclusive deals with certain
retailers.

Some manufacturers make special models specifically for what we could
call "deep discounters". In fact they may be (almost) identical to the
models that are available elsewhere, but the model numbers are different
so that one can't get the local hardware store that claims to do price
matching to match Lowe's or HD's prices.

I can give a more specific example from the world of office machines:
the HP "all-in-one" machines (printer/scanner/FAX/copier) sold by Costco
and Sam's Club apparently are identical (at least I have never heard
that anybody has discovered a difference) to the ones sold by Staples,
OfficeMax, etc., except for the model no.

Manufacturers *may* (for all I know) also make special "el cheapo"
versions (less durable or with fewer features) for large customers (such
as Lowe's and HD) to sell at a particularly attractive price.

MB


On 03/21/04 05:18 pm Steve L put fingers to keyboard and launched the
following message into cyberspace:br
Wrong again, "sir"; I have lots of clues. Dovetails, solid wood "hanging
rails", etc. I know what I know, and the quality is similar. I've
installed (and built) many cabinets.

Again, why the myth that HD and others can't get certain products from the
manufacturer? Why would they NOT sell to HD & Lowe's? Huge volume
there....



"Gunner" wrote in message
...

"Steve L" wrote in message


What crap. Where do these myths come from? I bought Kraftmaid

cabinets

from HD, and they have full 3/4 face frames, solid wood "hanging rails",
etc., etc., blah, blah, blah. Before I bought, I shopped several
custom/wholesale places; the quality was similar, but HD was cheaper.

You sir have no clue. I could ramble off a bunch of #'s for you to

check,

and I guarantee HD or any other retail outlet can't get _any_ of them.

The

fact remains the quality isn't similar.