Home Ownership (misc.consumers.house)

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1   Report Post  
Zhixin Tang
 
Posts: n/a
Default HELP: vertical foundation crack in new construction

Hi, I found out there is a vertical crack on the foundation wall
(poured concrete) all the way from ceiling to floor. It is on the 40'
foundation wall, in the middle of garage, close to steel pieces in the
concrete, about 1/8" wide. The foundation is only 2 months old and the
house is close to completion.

I think one wall is settling down more to cause the crack. I am afraid
that the crack will become bigger when settling continues. Is not rare
for a 2-month foundation has such a long and wide crack? I am
currently requesting the builder to hire a structural engineer to
assess the problem.

Since the house has been closed, I may have to option to walk away if
it is a serious foundation problem.

Folks, I would appreciate your advice on this problem. Also if I do
accept the home, I have to disclose the problem when I sell the house
in the future?

Thanks.

Tom
  #2   Report Post  
james w lazenby
 
Posts: n/a
Default vertical foundation crack in new construction


"Zhixin Tang" wrote in message
om...
Hi, I found out there is a vertical crack on the

foundation wall
(poured concrete) all the way from ceiling to floor. It is

on the 40'
foundation wall, in the middle of garage, close to steel

pieces in the
concrete, about 1/8" wide. The foundation is only 2 months

old and the
house is close to completion.

I think one wall is settling down more to cause the crack.

I am afraid
that the crack will become bigger when settling continues.

Is not rare
for a 2-month foundation has such a long and wide crack?


Not "rare," but certainly not routine or normal.

I am
currently requesting the builder to hire a structural

engineer to
assess the problem.


Have the builder propose his solution and timetable for
effecting it, in writing preferably. That way, any
competent authority can assess the damage, potential and
proposed solution in one effort. More effective, efficient
and also more equitable method to you and to the builder.

If you must retain a structural engineer, you should have an
agreement sufficient for the closing on your purchase
stating that you will retain and pay the engineer at your
expense. If, however, the builder disputes the hiring and
there is faulty construction, the builder shall reimburse
your expense.

Although you have not closed on the purchase, you do have an
equitable interest in the purchase and the property
sufficient to enforce the contractor's work and reasonable
performance. The contractor, however, must be given
opportunity to correct and/or complete his work without
penalty. How and when there is reimbursement of expense of
the engineer is the likely hang-up on enforcing any
agreement. If you are willing to chance that expense
without reimbursement, then go for it. If you are not,
proceed a bit more cautiously and give the builder adequate
opportunity.

Do go on record, written, with copies to everyone concerned
(seller, builder if different, title company, mortgage
company, etc.) as to the original complaint and request
(stay polite at this point . . . leave the "demands" to the
attornies) for correction suitable to you. Don't just say
suitable to an engineer. Say suitable to you. Of course,
it won't be suitable to you if it isn't suitable to the
engineer. However, what an engineer may deem technically
adequate may not be the workmanship either you or the
builder would prefer. (Remember, builders want to do good
work. They appreciate reasonable, patient buyers and will
usually work their butts off for a good buyer.)

But, CYA.

Good luck,
Jim

Since the house has been closed, I may have to option to

walk away if
it is a serious foundation problem.

Folks, I would appreciate your advice on this problem.

Also if I do
accept the home, I have to disclose the problem when I

sell the house
in the future?

Thanks.

Tom



  #3   Report Post  
indago
 
Posts: n/a
Default HELP: vertical foundation crack in new construction

031004 1047 - Zhixin Tang wrote:

Hi, I found out there is a vertical crack on the foundation wall
(poured concrete) all the way from ceiling to floor. It is on the 40'
foundation wall, in the middle of garage, close to steel pieces in the
concrete, about 1/8" wide. The foundation is only 2 months old and the
house is close to completion.

I think one wall is settling down more to cause the crack. I am afraid
that the crack will become bigger when settling continues. Is not rare
for a 2-month foundation has such a long and wide crack? I am
currently requesting the builder to hire a structural engineer to
assess the problem.

Since the house has been closed, I may have to option to walk away if
it is a serious foundation problem.

Folks, I would appreciate your advice on this problem. Also if I do
accept the home, I have to disclose the problem when I sell the house
in the future?

Thanks.

Tom



My brother had a house built on a cliff overlooking a lake. He had a deck
built overlooking this view. He was in the process of finishing the
basement area when he noticed a crack in the concrete basement foundation
wall near the cliff edge. He contacted the builder and had the crack
patched. A few months later the crack widened. He was about to have some
paneling done to that wall. The builder had to come back and repatch the
crack. My brother then paneled the wall and carpeted the floor and did
other and sundry finishing projects in the basement area, and a few months
later noticed that the paneling over where the crack area was separating
from the wall. He removed the paneling and saw the crack was ever widening.
He recontacted the builder, who did an investigation of the history of the
area, and found that the house was built on a fault line. A new basement
had to be dug out, and the house was "dragged" about 20 feet back from the
cliff area and over the new basement.

  #4   Report Post  
JJ
 
Posts: n/a
Default vertical foundation crack in new construction

I had a similar crack in my foundation, in the basement. I noticed it about
a month after we moved in (new construction).

The builder had the foundation subcontractor come back and they inserted
several metal rods horizontally up and down the crack, injected some sort of
expanding material into the crack (I can see that it went all the way
through the wall to the outside), then spread cement over the whole thing.
I haven't noticed any other cracks since then (5 years) and there is no
leaking.

Ask the builder about it - if the builder subcontracted the foundation work,
he'll just have the foundation guy come back. I really didn't even have to
insist on it. I showed him the crack and he had the foundation guy back the
next day (since that happened so quickly, I am assuming it didn't cost the
builder anything and the subcontractor expects to have to fix the occasional
crack).

If the builder doesn't want to have it fixed, then ask the building
inspector or hire a home inspector to do an inspection before closing and
see what he thinks.


"Zhixin Tang" wrote in message
om...
Hi, I found out there is a vertical crack on the foundation wall
(poured concrete) all the way from ceiling to floor. It is on the 40'
foundation wall, in the middle of garage, close to steel pieces in the
concrete, about 1/8" wide. The foundation is only 2 months old and the
house is close to completion.

I think one wall is settling down more to cause the crack. I am afraid
that the crack will become bigger when settling continues. Is not rare
for a 2-month foundation has such a long and wide crack? I am
currently requesting the builder to hire a structural engineer to
assess the problem.

Since the house has been closed, I may have to option to walk away if
it is a serious foundation problem.

Folks, I would appreciate your advice on this problem. Also if I do
accept the home, I have to disclose the problem when I sell the house
in the future?

Thanks.

Tom



  #6   Report Post  
MCG
 
Posts: n/a
Default vertical foundation crack in new construction

If you can get out of the deal, do so as fast as you can. It is not worth
taking the chance that you will have enormous, expensive problems with this
house down the road.
Get out NOW and DON'T LOOK BACK!

Peter



  #7   Report Post  
Nehmo Sergheyev
 
Posts: n/a
Default HELP: vertical foundation crack in new construction

- indago -
...He removed the paneling and saw the crack was ever widening.
He recontacted the builder, who did an investigation of the history of

the
area, and found that the house was built on a fault line. A new

basement
had to be dug out, and the house was "dragged" about 20 feet back from

the
cliff area and over the new basement.


- Nehmo -
Can there be earth movement about a fault line without there being an
earthquake?





--
*******************
* Nehmo Sergheyev *
*******************



  #8   Report Post  
Art Begun
 
Posts: n/a
Default vertical foundation crack in new construction

Look in the Yellow pages under Engineers and call a few to get one out
to look at it.



"Zhixin Tang" wrote in message
om...
Hi, I found out there is a vertical crack on the foundation wall
(poured concrete) all the way from ceiling to floor. It is on the

40'
foundation wall, in the middle of garage, close to steel pieces in

the
concrete, about 1/8" wide. The foundation is only 2 months old and

the
house is close to completion.

I think one wall is settling down more to cause the crack. I am

afraid
that the crack will become bigger when settling continues. Is not

rare
for a 2-month foundation has such a long and wide crack? I am
currently requesting the builder to hire a structural engineer to
assess the problem.

Since the house has been closed, I may have to option to walk away

if
it is a serious foundation problem.

Folks, I would appreciate your advice on this problem. Also if I do
accept the home, I have to disclose the problem when I sell the

house
in the future?

Thanks.

Tom



  #10   Report Post  
Dan Hartung
 
Posts: n/a
Default HELP: vertical foundation crack in new construction

Can there be earth movement about a fault line without there being an
earthquake?


Yes. An earthquake is what happens when a fault is prevented from its
natural movement by rock friction: eventually the pressure builds up and
it snaps violently.



  #11   Report Post  
v
 
Posts: n/a
Default vertical foundation crack in new construction

On Sat, 4 Oct 2003 16:32:34 -0700, someone wrote:


Get out NOW and DON'T LOOK BACK!

Peter


What kind of house do you live in?

Are there really NO cracks of any kind in your concrete work?

That is very hard to believe.

Residential work often has cracks. The questions are, is it moving,
is it even, how big is it. The often heard panic remarks, "it goes
all the way through" and "it goes all the way up" are pretty
meaningless. Of course it will, why would it stop half way. That is
not the Q.

Get someone knowledgeable to come out and see it in real life.

-v.
  #12   Report Post  
Zhixin Tang
 
Posts: n/a
Default HELP: vertical foundation crack in new construction

I'd like to thank all of you who responded. Here are some new
information:

The engineer hired by the builder had a visual inspection. He thinks
it is differential foundation settling that caused the crack. The
differential setting is estimated to be 1/8" and he said this kind of
difference is covered by the design and is normal(?). He said because
of elastic nature of soil initial load caused the crack and the crack
should diminish over time with the current load. When the load changes
(e.g. furniture, snow) it is expected that the crack should be
proportional to load. The foundation is structural sound to support
vertical weight

What are your opinions?
  #13   Report Post  
Dan G
 
Posts: n/a
Default HELP: vertical foundation crack in new construction



Concrete gets hard and cracks. It is almost the exception to the rule
for there to be absolutely no cracks. There are many causes and most
conscientious builders do their best to prevent them because they cause
reactions just like yours.

Your are paying top dollar for an expected result. Any deficiencies
cause concern, apprehension, and even distrust; feelings which are not
conducive to good or positive relationships.

No one on this newsgroup can make you feel better or worse about your
particular situation. Can you trust your contractor or accept his
advice? If your answer is NO, perhaps you should change your present
situation. If the man has been up front and honest with you, what else
can he do?

Your biggest issue is what can be done to remedy the crack issue. You
have the advice of the builder's engineer. I assume the builder is
paying for that inspection. I would be concerned about the exterior
waterproofing over the crack. I would also ask advice about using epoxy
injection to stabilize and repair the crack. If you hire your own
engineer, you may get the same or similar answer, but you may be more
willing to accept the answer. It is your decision, for long term peace
of mind hire an independent 3rd party; split the cost with the builder
if he is amenable or pay for it on your own so you can sleep at night.

####################
Keep the whole world singing. . .
Dan G
(remove the 7)


"Zhixin Tang" wrote in message
m...
I'd like to thank all of you who responded. Here are some new
information:

The engineer hired by the builder had a visual inspection. He thinks
it is differential foundation settling that caused the crack. The
differential setting is estimated to be 1/8" and he said this kind of
difference is covered by the design and is normal(?). He said because
of elastic nature of soil initial load caused the crack and the crack
should diminish over time with the current load. When the load changes
(e.g. furniture, snow) it is expected that the crack should be
proportional to load. The foundation is structural sound to support
vertical weight

What are your opinions?



  #14   Report Post  
Peter Shepherd
 
Posts: n/a
Default HELP: vertical foundation crack in new construction

A very rough rule of thumb is adding up all the cracks in the wall, and if
they're over 1/4" total, then you have significant settlement. Within this
rule the engineer has given a plausible description.

Vertical & diagonal are usually safer than horizontal cracks; the latter
could indicate a possible wall failure & collapse.

Did the builder perform soil testing on various points of the site,
especially if that neighbourhood is prone to unstable soil conditions.
What is the experience of other owners in that area?

Are the footings adequate for that soil?
Is there adequate rebar in both footings & foundation?

If so, how did the 1/8" crack happen so soon?
I've never heard of 1/8" differential settlement crack being an accepted
part of a "design". Whose design is he referring to? (Mangle-Wood
Construction?) Adequate perfomance on an older structure, yes, but I'd like
to see the passage in an engineering text that says it's normal for a new
foundation. While I haven't been around a lot of recently-constructed
foundations, it seems a little odd to me.

Was the foundation backfilled too soon, with heavy equipment mechanically
damaging the foundation before it cured?

Expansive soil can add typically 10% more pressure than non-expansive soil.
This may have buckled the footing & foundations slightly before they cured.
Is it very wet there, or did it rain much? A high water-table can increase
hydrostatic pressure also.


Good luck with it.


Peter Shepherd
63 Pauline Ave
Toronto


"Zhixin Tang" wrote in message
m...
I'd like to thank all of you who responded. Here are some new
information:

The engineer hired by the builder had a visual inspection. He thinks
it is differential foundation settling that caused the crack. The
differential setting is estimated to be 1/8" and he said this kind of
difference is covered by the design and is normal(?). He said because
of elastic nature of soil initial load caused the crack and the crack
should diminish over time with the current load. When the load changes
(e.g. furniture, snow) it is expected that the crack should be
proportional to load. The foundation is structural sound to support
vertical weight

What are your opinions?



  #15   Report Post  
frankg
 
Posts: n/a
Default HELP: vertical foundation crack in new construction

On 4 Oct 2003 07:47:40 -0700, (Zhixin Tang) wrote:

Hi, I found out there is a vertical crack on the foundation wall
(poured concrete) all the way from ceiling to floor. It is on the 40'
foundation wall, in the middle of garage, close to steel pieces in the
concrete, about 1/8" wide. The foundation is only 2 months old and the
house is close to completion.

I think one wall is settling down more to cause the crack. I am afraid
that the crack will become bigger when settling continues. Is not rare
for a 2-month foundation has such a long and wide crack? I am
currently requesting the builder to hire a structural engineer to
assess the problem.

Since the house has been closed, I may have to option to walk away if
it is a serious foundation problem.

Folks, I would appreciate your advice on this problem. Also if I do
accept the home, I have to disclose the problem when I sell the house
in the future?

Thanks.

Tom


In my opinion, 1/8 inch settlement in 2 months is too much too soon.
I suggest for peace of mind, hire your own structural engineer (your
cost) to inspect it independent from the first report to see if the
results are similar or not.

Or if you just don't feel comfortable with this project, don't buy it.
Hopefully you won't lose any money but if you do, it may be a lot less
than if you make the purchase and have to either repair the damage at
your cost or sell a house with a foundation problem at a probable loss
in value.


  #16   Report Post  
Zhixin Tang
 
Posts: n/a
Default HELP: vertical foundation crack in new construction

Is there a construction industry performance standard that defines if
1/8" settling crack in 2 months (too soon, too much)is normal or
abnormal? I know concrete hairline shrinkage crack is normal but a
settling crack of such a width so soon is normal? I doubt it. I like
to have references if anyone knows.

Thanks.

"Peter Shepherd" wrote in message ...
A very rough rule of thumb is adding up all the cracks in the wall, and if
they're over 1/4" total, then you have significant settlement. Within this
rule the engineer has given a plausible description.

Vertical & diagonal are usually safer than horizontal cracks; the latter
could indicate a possible wall failure & collapse.

Did the builder perform soil testing on various points of the site,
especially if that neighbourhood is prone to unstable soil conditions.
What is the experience of other owners in that area?

Are the footings adequate for that soil?
Is there adequate rebar in both footings & foundation?

If so, how did the 1/8" crack happen so soon?
I've never heard of 1/8" differential settlement crack being an accepted
part of a "design". Whose design is he referring to? (Mangle-Wood
Construction?) Adequate perfomance on an older structure, yes, but I'd like
to see the passage in an engineering text that says it's normal for a new
foundation. While I haven't been around a lot of recently-constructed
foundations, it seems a little odd to me.

Was the foundation backfilled too soon, with heavy equipment mechanically
damaging the foundation before it cured?

Expansive soil can add typically 10% more pressure than non-expansive soil.
This may have buckled the footing & foundations slightly before they cured.
Is it very wet there, or did it rain much? A high water-table can increase
hydrostatic pressure also.


Good luck with it.


Peter Shepherd
63 Pauline Ave
Toronto

  #17   Report Post  
Freezeman
 
Posts: n/a
Default HELP: vertical foundation crack in new construction

Hello, I have a similar problem with my new house under construction
and would like advice on how something like this is "fixed."

The preliminary:
The footer in the house is something like 18" deep and about 12-15"
wide. After that hardened, the builder placed hollow, concrete cinder
blocks (this is common practice in this area - about 8-9" x 12-14") to
form the walls. In between each row of block is a long piece of some
metal grid or rebar-like material placed in the mortar running
horizontally. These walls are about 2 ft (2 blocks) tall in the front
and 6-9 feet tall in the rear corners. About 3/8-1/2" rebar was placed
vertically in the walls about every 2 feet all the way around with
each rebar extending about 2-3 feet above the top of the wall. These
cinder blocks were then poured solid with concrete.

Now the problem:
The concrete-filled walls sat about a week. Lots of rain on and off
while many loads of dirt were brought to the site. Over the course of
two days, the dirt was backfilled into the structure. No problem at
first, but at the end of day while the track-hoe was smoothing the top
and packing the dirt a vertical crack developed in the corner of the
wall running perfectly vertical (not following the seams of the
blocks). The track-hoe was only a couple of feet from the corner when
this occurred. The crack begins actually on the side of the structure
but at the rear corner about 1 block width from the rear corner. It is
about 1/2-5/8" at the top and gets smaller at the bottom. It doesn't
totally reach the bottom and tapers to a hair-line fracture at the 2nd
block from the bottom. It does appear to go all the way through the
wall.

The builder is not playing it off. He is upset and consulted an
engineer (?) who hasn't looked at the foundation, but told the builder
it should be fine. The idea is that with the rebar in the walls bent
over and tieing the walls into the soon-to-be poured floor and the
metal grid-work running horizontally in between each row of block, it
should be ok. I am assuming some type of "filler" will be used as well
to seal the crack. Further, the builder intends to drill 6 holes 16"
deep and 5/8" in diameter through the rear corner into the side wall
and drive some bars into the holes with a steel plate against the rear
corner wall.

The outer surface will be ultimately finished with brick. My concern
is that over time this could continue to separate. There isn't a bulge
anywhere currently but there is separation on the wall at this time.

Any recommendations? If you had to "fix" this, what would you do?

Thanks in advance. Sorry to hijack the thread and with a long post to
boot.

Robert



frankg wrote in message . ..
On 4 Oct 2003 07:47:40 -0700, (Zhixin Tang) wrote:


Hi, I found out there is a vertical crack on the foundation wall
(poured concrete) all the way from ceiling to floor. It is on the 40'
foundation wall, in the middle of garage, close to steel pieces in the
concrete, about 1/8" wide. The foundation is only 2 months old and the
house is close to completion.

I think one wall is settling down more to cause the crack. I am afraid
that the crack will become bigger when settling continues. Is not rare
for a 2-month foundation has such a long and wide crack? I am
currently requesting the builder to hire a structural engineer to
assess the problem.

Since the house has been closed, I may have to option to walk away if
it is a serious foundation problem.

Folks, I would appreciate your advice on this problem. Also if I do
accept the home, I have to disclose the problem when I sell the house
in the future?

Thanks.

Tom


In my opinion, 1/8 inch settlement in 2 months is too much too soon.
I suggest for peace of mind, hire your own structural engineer (your
cost) to inspect it independent from the first report to see if the
results are similar or not.

Or if you just don't feel comfortable with this project, don't buy it.
Hopefully you won't lose any money but if you do, it may be a lot less
than if you make the purchase and have to either repair the damage at
your cost or sell a house with a foundation problem at a probable loss
in value.

  #18   Report Post  
3D Peruna
 
Posts: n/a
Default HELP: vertical foundation crack in new construction

snip

The builder is not playing it off. He is upset and consulted an
engineer (?) who hasn't looked at the foundation, but told the builder
it should be fine.


I think the above is the key...the builder isn't happy with it and is
willing to solve the problem. If he consults an engineer for the solution,
then you should be in good shape. Of course, you're free to hire your own
engineer...but realize that the builder is acting in very good faith to
resolve the problem. I might ask for the opinion of the engineer, in
writing (and possibly sealed) to have in my files for the house, just in
case, though.

P


  #19   Report Post  
Dan G
 
Posts: n/a
Default HELP: vertical foundation crack in new construction

A vertical crack in a masonry wall sounds more serious than a crack in
a concrete wall Is the wall bowed in at the top? It sounds like too
much pressure during the backfilling operation either from equipment or
from excess moisture in the soil.

The big issues IMHO are structural integrity and water/damp proof of the
wall. Epoxy injection won't do much for the CMU wall the way it would
with a concrete wall. What remedies does your builder suggest?


####################
Keep the whole world singing. . .
Dan G
(remove the 7)



Freezeman wrote:
Hello, I have a similar problem with my new house under construction
and would like advice on how something like this is "fixed."

The preliminary:
The footer in the house is something like 18" deep and about 12-15"
wide. After that hardened, the builder placed hollow, concrete cinder
blocks (this is common practice in this area - about 8-9" x 12-14") to
form the walls. In between each row of block is a long piece of some
metal grid or rebar-like material placed in the mortar running
horizontally. These walls are about 2 ft (2 blocks) tall in the front
and 6-9 feet tall in the rear corners. About 3/8-1/2" rebar was placed
vertically in the walls about every 2 feet all the way around with
each rebar extending about 2-3 feet above the top of the wall. These
cinder blocks were then poured solid with concrete.

Now the problem:
The concrete-filled walls sat about a week. Lots of rain on and off
while many loads of dirt were brought to the site. Over the course of
two days, the dirt was backfilled into the structure. No problem at
first, but at the end of day while the track-hoe was smoothing the top
and packing the dirt a vertical crack developed in the corner of the
wall running perfectly vertical (not following the seams of the
blocks). The track-hoe was only a couple of feet from the corner when
this occurred. The crack begins actually on the side of the structure
but at the rear corner about 1 block width from the rear corner. It is
about 1/2-5/8" at the top and gets smaller at the bottom. It doesn't
totally reach the bottom and tapers to a hair-line fracture at the 2nd
block from the bottom. It does appear to go all the way through the
wall.

The builder is not playing it off. He is upset and consulted an
engineer (?) who hasn't looked at the foundation, but told the builder
it should be fine. The idea is that with the rebar in the walls bent
over and tieing the walls into the soon-to-be poured floor and the
metal grid-work running horizontally in between each row of block, it
should be ok. I am assuming some type of "filler" will be used as well
to seal the crack. Further, the builder intends to drill 6 holes 16"
deep and 5/8" in diameter through the rear corner into the side wall
and drive some bars into the holes with a steel plate against the rear
corner wall.

The outer surface will be ultimately finished with brick. My concern
is that over time this could continue to separate. There isn't a bulge
anywhere currently but there is separation on the wall at this time.

Any recommendations? If you had to "fix" this, what would you do?

Thanks in advance. Sorry to hijack the thread and with a long post to
boot.

Robert



frankg wrote in message
. ..
On 4 Oct 2003 07:47:40 -0700, (Zhixin Tang)
wrote:


Hi, I found out there is a vertical crack on the foundation wall
(poured concrete) all the way from ceiling to floor. It is on the
40'
foundation wall, in the middle of garage, close to steel pieces in
the
concrete, about 1/8" wide. The foundation is only 2 months old and
the
house is close to completion.

I think one wall is settling down more to cause the crack. I am
afraid
that the crack will become bigger when settling continues. Is not
rare
for a 2-month foundation has such a long and wide crack? I am
currently requesting the builder to hire a structural engineer to
assess the problem.

Since the house has been closed, I may have to option to walk away
if
it is a serious foundation problem.

Folks, I would appreciate your advice on this problem. Also if I do
accept the home, I have to disclose the problem when I sell the
house
in the future?

Thanks.

Tom


In my opinion, 1/8 inch settlement in 2 months is too much too soon.
I suggest for peace of mind, hire your own structural engineer (your
cost) to inspect it independent from the first report to see if the
results are similar or not.

Or if you just don't feel comfortable with this project, don't buy
it.
Hopefully you won't lose any money but if you do, it may be a lot
less
than if you make the purchase and have to either repair the damage at
your cost or sell a house with a foundation problem at a probable
loss
in value.



  #20   Report Post  
Freezeman
 
Posts: n/a
Default HELP: vertical foundation crack in new construction

Dan,

The crack is in a corner of the concrete wall along the side and about
8 inches from the rear wall. He is suggesting drilling about 6 holes
from the rear wall through the corner and into the side all. The holes
are 16inches deep and 5/8inches in diameter. Then some type of anchors
are driven into the holes with a steel plate up against the rear wall.
Will something like this do anything to support the structure? That
was my reason for posting was to get suggestions about a possible fix.
The builder also thinks that the rebar used in the vertical wall that
is extending about 2feet above the wall will help tie the wall the
slab when it is bent over and the slab is poured. Any ideas?

Robert




"Dan G" wrote in message .. .
A vertical crack in a masonry wall sounds more serious than a crack in
a concrete wall Is the wall bowed in at the top? It sounds like too
much pressure during the backfilling operation either from equipment or
from excess moisture in the soil.

The big issues IMHO are structural integrity and water/damp proof of the
wall. Epoxy injection won't do much for the CMU wall the way it would
with a concrete wall. What remedies does your builder suggest?


####################
Keep the whole world singing. . .
Dan G
(remove the 7)






  #21   Report Post  
Dan G
 
Posts: n/a
Default HELP: vertical foundation crack in new construction

I believe you said you have a block foundation as opposed to a cast in
place concrete wall. Jargon in the trade would call yours a block or
CMU (Concrete/cementitious Masonry Units) as opposed to CIP concrete
wall.

I am not in a position to tell you what will work, especially as I have
not seen it. I can offer some ideas to consider. I gather that the top
of the wall is still accessible. Did the footing break and go down
leaving a wider crack at the top than at the bottom? or did the wall get
pushed in causing a bigger crack at the top? If it was pushed in, has
it been pushed back out? If the footing has been broken, I would
suggest tearing the corner down, reinforce the footing, and relay the
corner. If the wall moved slightly from backfilling pressure, I would
excavate the corner to push the wall back into line. I must say it
sounds unusual to me for the wall to fail close to the corner, rather
than out at mid wall. I would take a hammer drill with a very small
bit (1/4") and test vertical cells to verify which ones are filled. You
will need to test at least high, medium, low in every vertical line of
cells near the failure. If there are any with voids in the filling of
the cells, I would make sure to have them at least grout injected,
preferably vibrated full of 3/8ths chip mix real concrete. I think the
dowels that are being proposed should maybe be longer to get from the
good corner well past the break into a portion of the side wall that did
not move or fail. I would expect the pins to be epoxied. I agree that
a poured floor holding the tops of the walls will strengthen the
situation substantially.

The damp proofing will need to be reapplied. I would ask for some form
of guaranty based on continued failure, crack increasing, etc for a set
term, perhaps 2 years, with a healthy clause about excavation and
remedy. It sounds as if your builder wants to work with you. I think
both of you should split the cost of having a structural engineer assess
and recommend the repair method for each other's protection and
continued ability to work together.


####################
Keep the whole world singing. . .
Dan G
(remove the 7)


"Freezeman" wrote in message
om...
Dan,

The crack is in a corner of the concrete wall along the side and about
8 inches from the rear wall. He is suggesting drilling about 6 holes
from the rear wall through the corner and into the side all. The holes
are 16inches deep and 5/8inches in diameter. Then some type of anchors
are driven into the holes with a steel plate up against the rear wall.
Will something like this do anything to support the structure? That
was my reason for posting was to get suggestions about a possible fix.
The builder also thinks that the rebar used in the vertical wall that
is extending about 2feet above the wall will help tie the wall the
slab when it is bent over and the slab is poured. Any ideas?

Robert




"Dan G" wrote in message

.. .
A vertical crack in a masonry wall sounds more serious than a crack

in
a concrete wall Is the wall bowed in at the top? It sounds like

too
much pressure during the backfilling operation either from equipment

or
from excess moisture in the soil.

The big issues IMHO are structural integrity and water/damp proof of

the
wall. Epoxy injection won't do much for the CMU wall the way it

would
with a concrete wall. What remedies does your builder suggest?


####################
Keep the whole world singing. . .
Dan G
(remove the 7)






  #22   Report Post  
Freezeman
 
Posts: n/a
Default HELP: vertical foundation crack in new construction

Dan,

The crack is about 8 inches from a corner. It is on the side of the
structure and 8 inches from the rear wall corner - the thickness of
the rear wall. It is as if the rear wall pushed out and took with it
the corner. It is a clean break along the side wall. The builder
consulted various people who all told him they would leave it as is
with the confidence that the poured slab and rebar would hold it in
place. However, he said he would feel better doing something with it.
So he excavated the dirt away from the corner and part of the rear
wall and drilled 5 holes about 18" apart up and down and about 12"
from the corner all the way through the concrete filled CMU's - on
both sides of the wall. I was there helping and can testify that each
of the 10 holes was in a solid concrete area - they took about 5-10
minutes each to drill through with a masonry drill and bit and lots of
pressure. We then took a 1/4" thick piece of sheet steel that had bent
into a 90 degree angle and placed it against the corner on the
outside. It extended from top to bottom of the 8' walls and about 18
inches around the corner on each side. Matching holes had been drilled
in the steel and we bolted this steel and some matching steel to the
inside of the wall using 10" grade 8 bolts and nuts. The steel had
been primed and painted to reduce rusting. We then put some extra
primer on the outside and inside pieces of exposed steel. He plans on
filling the dirt back into the hole today and pouring the slab next
week. The inside area will be prone to rust over time especially being
in soil. The outside area will be covered in brick.

I realize I am not an engineer, but I think this should at least help
in holding it together. I personally felt like the crack developed
because someone who didn't know better was operating a 22,000lb track
hoe about 1' from the wall on top of the dirt trying to pack it down
as he backfilled. It didn't expand any further over 2 days just
sitting there. And no, the footer didn't crack on the inside or the
outside of the wall. I am hoping this is sufficient. A couple of
people recommended pushing the wall back in place (about 3/4" at the
top down to 0" about 2 feet from the base). My thoughts were that
doing so would put extra pressure on the bolts and steel after the
dirt was placed back against the inside of the wall.

Robert




"Dan G" wrote in message ...
I believe you said you have a block foundation as opposed to a cast in
place concrete wall. Jargon in the trade would call yours a block or
CMU (Concrete/cementitious Masonry Units) as opposed to CIP concrete
wall.

I am not in a position to tell you what will work, especially as I have
not seen it. I can offer some ideas to consider. I gather that the top
of the wall is still accessible. Did the footing break and go down
leaving a wider crack at the top than at the bottom? or did the wall get
pushed in causing a bigger crack at the top? If it was pushed in, has
it been pushed back out? If the footing has been broken, I would
suggest tearing the corner down, reinforce the footing, and relay the
corner. If the wall moved slightly from backfilling pressure, I would
excavate the corner to push the wall back into line. I must say it
sounds unusual to me for the wall to fail close to the corner, rather
than out at mid wall. I would take a hammer drill with a very small
bit (1/4") and test vertical cells to verify which ones are filled. You
will need to test at least high, medium, low in every vertical line of
cells near the failure. If there are any with voids in the filling of
the cells, I would make sure to have them at least grout injected,
preferably vibrated full of 3/8ths chip mix real concrete. I think the
dowels that are being proposed should maybe be longer to get from the
good corner well past the break into a portion of the side wall that did
not move or fail. I would expect the pins to be epoxied. I agree that
a poured floor holding the tops of the walls will strengthen the
situation substantially.

The damp proofing will need to be reapplied. I would ask for some form
of guaranty based on continued failure, crack increasing, etc for a set
term, perhaps 2 years, with a healthy clause about excavation and
remedy. It sounds as if your builder wants to work with you. I think
both of you should split the cost of having a structural engineer assess
and recommend the repair method for each other's protection and
continued ability to work together.


####################
Keep the whole world singing. . .
Dan G
(remove the 7)


"Freezeman" wrote in message
om...
Dan,

The crack is in a corner of the concrete wall along the side and about
8 inches from the rear wall. He is suggesting drilling about 6 holes
from the rear wall through the corner and into the side all. The holes
are 16inches deep and 5/8inches in diameter. Then some type of anchors
are driven into the holes with a steel plate up against the rear wall.
Will something like this do anything to support the structure? That
was my reason for posting was to get suggestions about a possible fix.
The builder also thinks that the rebar used in the vertical wall that
is extending about 2feet above the wall will help tie the wall the
slab when it is bent over and the slab is poured. Any ideas?

Robert




"Dan G" wrote in message

.. .
A vertical crack in a masonry wall sounds more serious than a crack

in
a concrete wall Is the wall bowed in at the top? It sounds like

too
much pressure during the backfilling operation either from equipment

or
from excess moisture in the soil.

The big issues IMHO are structural integrity and water/damp proof of

the
wall. Epoxy injection won't do much for the CMU wall the way it

would
with a concrete wall. What remedies does your builder suggest?


####################
Keep the whole world singing. . .
Dan G
(remove the 7)




  #23   Report Post  
Jeff Smith
 
Posts: n/a
Default HELP: vertical foundation crack in new construction

I don't know the significance of that crack, but realize that concrete
pretty much WILL crack, that's why they use seams or expansion material.
Find me a foundation that doesn't have a crack in it, I'd be surprised if
you could. 1/8" is medium sized for a concrete crack, but unless there is
vertical displacement, I usually wouldn't pay attention to a crack that big.
If the concrete wasn't cured correctly, or if it was just cured poorly it
will crack early on. You should be asking the question, will this crack
enlarge and cause a structural problem. Only an engineer can tell you that.
If at any time it shows up as a problem and you're made aware of it, you
MUST disclose it when you sell. If you don't the significance of a crack in
the concrete, you may not have to disclose it, however if a court could
prove that you should have known it was a problem, then you could be held
responsible. Those kinds of lawsuits are VERY nasty. I would definitely
disclose anything I knew to even potientally be a problem to a buyer, it's
just too risky not to.

-Jeff


"frankg" wrote in message
...
On 4 Oct 2003 07:47:40 -0700, (Zhixin Tang) wrote:


Hi, I found out there is a vertical crack on the foundation wall
(poured concrete) all the way from ceiling to floor. It is on the 40'
foundation wall, in the middle of garage, close to steel pieces in the
concrete, about 1/8" wide. The foundation is only 2 months old and the
house is close to completion.

I think one wall is settling down more to cause the crack. I am afraid
that the crack will become bigger when settling continues. Is not rare
for a 2-month foundation has such a long and wide crack? I am
currently requesting the builder to hire a structural engineer to
assess the problem.

Since the house has been closed, I may have to option to walk away if
it is a serious foundation problem.

Folks, I would appreciate your advice on this problem. Also if I do
accept the home, I have to disclose the problem when I sell the house
in the future?

Thanks.

Tom


In my opinion, 1/8 inch settlement in 2 months is too much too soon.
I suggest for peace of mind, hire your own structural engineer (your
cost) to inspect it independent from the first report to see if the
results are similar or not.

Or if you just don't feel comfortable with this project, don't buy it.
Hopefully you won't lose any money but if you do, it may be a lot less
than if you make the purchase and have to either repair the damage at
your cost or sell a house with a foundation problem at a probable loss
in value.



  #24   Report Post  
v
 
Posts: n/a
Default HELP: vertical foundation crack in new construction

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 17:25:59 -0400, someone wrote:


Did the builder perform soil testing on various points of the site,


That is pretty rare for residential construction, at least around
here.

-v.
  #25   Report Post  
Patch
 
Posts: n/a
Default vertical foundation crack in new construction


"Zhixin Tang" wrote in message
om...
Hi, I found out there is a vertical crack on the foundation wall
(poured concrete) all the way from ceiling to floor. It is on the 40'
foundation wall, in the middle of garage, close to steel pieces in the
concrete, about 1/8" wide. The foundation is only 2 months old and the
house is close to completion.

I think one wall is settling down more to cause the crack. I am afraid
that the crack will become bigger when settling continues. Is not rare
for a 2-month foundation has such a long and wide crack? I am
currently requesting the builder to hire a structural engineer to
assess the problem.

Since the house has been closed, I may have to option to walk away if
it is a serious foundation problem.

By "the house has been closed", do you mean you have already had your
closing, before the house was finished? If so, I hope you had a Lawyer
involved with the process.




  #26   Report Post  
Mike Dobony
 
Posts: n/a
Default vertical foundation crack in new construction


"Patch" wrote in message
news:1kWlb.15807$B_2.3916@okepread02...

"Zhixin Tang" wrote in message
om...
Hi, I found out there is a vertical crack on the foundation wall
(poured concrete) all the way from ceiling to floor. It is on the 40'
foundation wall, in the middle of garage, close to steel pieces in the
concrete, about 1/8" wide. The foundation is only 2 months old and the
house is close to completion.

I think one wall is settling down more to cause the crack. I am afraid
that the crack will become bigger when settling continues. Is not rare
for a 2-month foundation has such a long and wide crack? I am
currently requesting the builder to hire a structural engineer to
assess the problem.

Since the house has been closed, I may have to option to walk away if
it is a serious foundation problem.

By "the house has been closed", do you mean you have already had your
closing, before the house was finished? If so, I hope you had a Lawyer
involved with the process.



This is a SERIOUS problem as you noted that it will get more serious as time
goes by. It sounds like the footing was NOT done properly or the concrete
was sub-grade, or there was insufficient reinforcement, and will require a
complete removal and replacement to prevent this from getting worse.


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.530 / Virus Database: 325 - Release Date: 10/22/2003


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Foundation Cracks Bob W. Home Repair 3 December 22nd 03 06:39 PM
HELP: vertical foundation crack in new construction Zhixin Tang Home Repair 46 October 26th 03 02:53 PM
Zienth Vertical Squish (How do I find and test the Capacitor?) Kevin Cornwell Electronics Repair 8 September 15th 03 03:17 PM
Crack in Foundation Tillio Home Repair 7 September 6th 03 07:09 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:16 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 DIYbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about DIY & home improvement"