alright, i think 2 months in this new house is enough time to "wait
and see what happens":

i have been getting this white powder (and little crushable white
rocks) coming out of my hot water taps in the whole house - to the
degree that they clog the aerators on the taps.

it's a new house - barely 3 months old - and has a new GE water
softener installed on a pre-plumb in the garage...

i've even drained the hot water heater twice, and some small,
nickle-sized white crystals came out of it, but that was it.

is there any way hard water deposits can persist in a home with a soft
water system?

this doesn't make sense - they only other explanation i have is that
Salt Pellets are making their way into the hot water tank?!?

....but that would indicate a broken water softener - and this one is
babied and brand-new...

can someone help here?

i have been getting this white powder (and little crushable white
rocks) coming out of my hot water taps in the whole house - to the
degree that they clog the aerators on the taps.

How old is your water heater?

A bunch of water heaters were manufactured during the 1990's with
a defective component called a "dip tube" that is made of plastic.
As it falls apart, it leaves bits of white grunk in the hot water.

The solution is to replace the dip tube.

--
Andrew Koenig,

(Andrew Koenig) wrote in
:

The solution is to replace the dip tube.

And clean out the water heater and the hot water supply lines and all
the faucets.

Even then, you'll probably have little bits of plastic in the sytem
for a long time.

--
Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN |

some last-minute discoveries:

1) the white powder does not fizz in vinegar - but it IS further
crushable to a fine white dust...

2) it does NOT taste like salt.

3) it has a dirty white appearance in the vinegar - like a white/brown

i should also point out that i live over an aquifer-fed water supply
in South Central Texas - the Edwards Aquifer.

historically, we have had heavy limestone deposits in our water
supply, but i've seen and drank the hard water, and this is NOTHING
like that...

my suspicions still lie with the plastic dip tube, except that large
white SOLID marble-sized pieces came out of the water heater when i
drained it 2 weeks ago - they looked like crystalline
formations...like "jacks" of yore...

wrote in message
om...
some last-minute discoveries:

1) the white powder does not fizz in vinegar - but it IS further
crushable to a fine white dust...

2) it does NOT taste like salt.

3) it has a dirty white appearance in the vinegar - like a white/brown

i should also point out that i live over an aquifer-fed water supply
in South Central Texas - the Edwards Aquifer.

historically, we have had heavy limestone deposits in our water
supply, but i've seen and drank the hard water, and this is NOTHING
like that...

my suspicions still lie with the plastic dip tube, except that large
white SOLID marble-sized pieces came out of the water heater when i
drained it 2 weeks ago - they looked like crystalline
formations...like "jacks" of yore...

Hmmm. Your new information changes things. If the problem is a
deteriorated dip tube, the bits will be somewhat soft. The chips that I
found in my faucet screens mushed into a white, somewhat pasty, mass.

Since it's a relatively new tank, I wonder if some kind of cleaner or other
material could have been left in the tank during manufacture. Maybe it's
time find out what that stuff is. Take some to a local lab or even to the
local chemistry teacher and run a few basic tests. You probably don't
drink the water from the hot water tap, but there's always the chance of a
harmful chemical.

TKM

wrote
wow - the fact that several people have suggested the same cause makes
me wonder about the "dip tube" in the hot water heater...

if it helps any, the hot water will eventually stain the bathroom sink
a light "blue" - same goes for the bathtub...it can be removed with a
bleach-based cleaner...

my guess is it's the chemical reaction of the powder in the copper
piping, but it could also be the white powder coming from the taps, as
it's not always just plain "white" powder - sometimes white with blue
specks...

this is certainly more than i bargained for in a new home, and will be
diligently cleaning out aerators and watching the hot water flow for
some time until i can figure out EXACTLY what the cause is.

(could it REALLY be the dip tube in the hot water heater?!? i mean,
it's less than 2 months old! and for what it's worth, it's a
gas-heater, and can be turned WAY up in heat)

Dip tube material will burn, it's plastic, so try burning some of the
stuff and see what happens. Vinegar doesn't always cause hard water
scale to fizz... I do not believe you'd get a bad dip tube in a new
water heater within the last few months or year. Sulfates, chlorides and
high alkalinity or TDS could be the cause of the particles so get a
water analysis done. Do you have any hot water recirculation system?

The blue is copper. It could be caused by low pH water, high TDS,
soldering flux (a good possibility) or simply the newness of the tubing
allowing the copper to form its normal patina; which actually is
corrosion but it is normal. The softener will prevent any scale
formation to 'protect' the new tubing from the water and the patina will
take longer to form.

I don't recall if you have your own well or city water but if it's city
water, the water companies sometimes add chemicals that precipitate out
of solution when the water is heated, that could be the cause of the
"rocks".

Gary
Quality Water Associates

"TKM" wrote in message ...

Hmmm. Your new information changes things. If the problem is a
deteriorated dip tube, the bits will be somewhat soft. The chips that I
found in my faucet screens mushed into a white, somewhat pasty, mass.

Since it's a relatively new tank, I wonder if some kind of cleaner or other
material could have been left in the tank during manufacture. Maybe it's
time find out what that stuff is. Take some to a local lab or even to the
local chemistry teacher and run a few basic tests. You probably don't
drink the water from the hot water tap, but there's always the chance of a
harmful chemical.

TKM


yes - i'm inclined to believe it's hard water deposits in the
pipes/heater.

slowly, VERY slowly, it has reduced in quantity.

i can now run the hot water tap on the bathtub for about 4 minutes
before it slows a little - the first month, it was about 4 SECONDS!

something happened in between when the water was turned on and i moved
in, and i'm probably seeing the results of that mystery event.

i have a friend who has access to a lab and might ask him to check out
the powder, but for now i'm just going to live with it.

wrote in message . com...
"TKM" wrote in message ...

Hmmm. Your new information changes things. If the problem is a
deteriorated dip tube, the bits will be somewhat soft. The chips that I
found in my faucet screens mushed into a white, somewhat pasty, mass.



it's the salt.

it's making it through the softener - i just cleaned out the hot water
lead to the washer and it was CAKED with the stuff.

i turn down the "salt level" on the GE Water Softener and the stuff
decreases.

i am at a total loss now - i've consulted with the plumber twice and
he recommended i leave the salt level low and just live with it...

ridiculous - it's down to 5 now, from 26, 16, 13, 12, 10, 9

wrote
wrote
"TKM" wrote

Hmmm. Your new information changes things. If the problem is a
deteriorated dip tube, the bits will be somewhat soft. The chips
that I
found in my faucet screens mushed into a white, somewhat pasty,
mass.



it's the salt.

it's making it through the softener - i just cleaned out the hot water
lead to the washer and it was CAKED with the stuff.

i turn down the "salt level" on the GE Water Softener and the stuff
decreases.

i am at a total loss now - i've consulted with the plumber twice and
he recommended i leave the salt level low and just live with it...

ridiculous - it's down to 5 now, from 26, 16, 13, 12, 10, 9

Have you read my posts? If they didn't show up here, go to
www.google.com and search this Group.

The vast majority of plumbers don't normally know softeners or how to
trouble shoot problems with them. Who set the salt so high? And how much
resin, capacity etc. does the softener have? Nine may still be too high
and the only way to know is with a sodium test. The salt may be a
problem with the control valve not providing proper rinses. Or the drain
line being kinked etc.. You need a water treatment dealer to check out
your softener for proper setup and operation. Plus the other things that
may be in your water and causing this white stuff problem.

Gary
Quality Water Associates

"Gary Slusser" wrote in message

The vast majority of plumbers don't normally know softeners or how to
trouble shoot problems with them. Who set the salt so high? And how much
resin, capacity etc. does the softener have? Nine may still be too high
and the only way to know is with a sodium test. The salt may be a
problem with the control valve not providing proper rinses. Or the drain
line being kinked etc.. You need a water treatment dealer to check out
your softener for proper setup and operation. Plus the other things that
may be in your water and causing this white stuff problem.

Gary
Quality Water Associates

hey Gary.

i'm going to drop the thing to 0 (or 1) and throw the bypass valve.

we'll see what happens after several days of "hard" water.

one thing still mystified - why does the salt show up in the HOT water
tap and not the COLD water tap???

wrote
"Gary Slusser" wrote

The vast majority of plumbers don't normally know softeners or how
to
trouble shoot problems with them. Who set the salt so high? And how
much
resin, capacity etc. does the softener have? Nine may still be too
high
and the only way to know is with a sodium test. The salt may be a
problem with the control valve not providing proper rinses. Or the
drain
line being kinked etc.. You need a water treatment dealer to check
out
your softener for proper setup and operation. Plus the other things
that
may be in your water and causing this white stuff problem.

Gary
Quality Water Associates

hey Gary.

i'm going to drop the thing to 0 (or 1) and throw the bypass valve.

we'll see what happens after several days of "hard" water.

one thing still mystified - why does the salt show up in the HOT water
tap and not the COLD water tap???

I don't think it's salt that is causing the residue, although it may be.
It might be more chlorides than sodium though and coming out of solution
only in the water heater and hot side plumbing.

You need to learn how to calculate your salt dose and set up the unit
properly for your water usage. And have some of that stuff analyzed so
you know what you're dealing with. It could be something in your water
like sulfates, chlorides, excessive TDS etc, that a softener doesn't
treat and isn't good for a softeners operation.

Gary
Quality Water Associates

"Gary Slusser" wrote

The vast majority of plumbers don't normally know softeners or how
to
trouble shoot problems with them. Who set the salt so high? And how
much
resin, capacity etc. does the softener have? Nine may still be too
high
and the only way to know is with a sodium test. The salt may be a
problem with the control valve not providing proper rinses. Or the
drain
line being kinked etc.. You need a water treatment dealer to check
out
your softener for proper setup and operation. Plus the other things
that
may be in your water and causing this white stuff problem.

Gary
Quality Water Associates


thanks for the suggestions Gary.

the plumber and I did a thorough checking of the water loop and the
softener yesterday (checking for solder plugs, directional flow of
water, etc) - everything was fine.

i returned the GE 27,000 grain softener to Lowe's and got a
replacement - BUT - even though the replacement was the same model, it
appeared to have a different interface and additional options...

as for the calculations, a good friend of mine is a NEPA specialist
(environment specialist) in Killeen TX and he helped me originally
arrive at 17 for the GE Softener.

turning the setting randomly up and down was only to prove whether
more salt or less salt ended up in the line.

i had a hard water shower late last night (with no salt!)

i suspect my problems are over, but we shall see...

(another thing - while not trying to make a blanket accusation, i've
noticed some manufacturers will suddenly issue "rebates" on certain
models of equipment that have been known to have sporadic problems -
my "old" GE softener had a $40 rebate that went from July 2003 to
about September 2003, and looked distinctly different from the newer,
but same model, that i picked up last night...)

hey Gary.

one thing still mystified - why does the salt show up in the HOT water
tap and not the COLD water tap???

I don't think it's salt that is causing the residue, although it may be.
It might be more chlorides than sodium though and coming out of solution
only in the water heater and hot side plumbing.

I don't know whom originally posted this or what the complaint was but if
the problem is only in the hot water lines, chances are good that the
problem is caused by a deteriorating 'drip tube' in the hot water heater.
Several manufacturers have had service programs because of this and it would
even cover cleaning all the hot water fittings which would be affected by
such a failure.

The OP should contact the manufacturer of the hot water heater to see if it
is effected by this particular failure. You can read a bit about it at the
following link:

http://www.thehomeinspector.com/Clients/DipTube.html

Dan O.
-
Appliance411.com
http://ng.Appliance411.com/?ref411=water+heaters

=Ð~~~~~~

"Dan O." wrote in message

I don't think it's salt that is causing the residue, although it may be.
It might be more chlorides than sodium though and coming out of solution
only in the water heater and hot side plumbing.

I don't know whom originally posted this or what the complaint was but if
the problem is only in the hot water lines, chances are good that the
problem is caused by a deteriorating 'drip tube' in the hot water heater.
Several manufacturers have had service programs because of this and it would
even cover cleaning all the hot water fittings which would be affected by
such a failure.


the plumber swears it is not the drip tube, which seems supported by
the fact that i have a LONG supply of hot water.

the way i understood it, once the drip tube deteriorates, you have a
very short supply of hot water due to the top of the tank being cycled
and not the ENTIRE tank.

plus, the little rocks would look more like plastic chips.

i'm on the second day of a brand new water softener and things appear
to be slowing down - little to no salt left in the hot water line.