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Replumbing one-pipe diverter tee system



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 9th 07, 10:06 PM posted to misc.consumers.house
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Posts: 18
Default Replumbing one-pipe diverter tee system

Our house, built in 1950, has a one-pipe diverter tee system with
radiators (not cast iron, aluminum fin on copper, but they're not
baseboard) for our first floor heat (they used copper for the second
floor, but did it more like a two-pipe system). For some reason, it was
plumbed with a combination of cast iron and steel pipe rather than
copper. The steel pipes are now starting to rust and leak, and I need
to redo the system.

I'm going to use the same pipe sizes - 1" for the main loop and 1/2"
for the radiators. The existing system is hung from pipe hanger
material (that perforated flexible steel that comes in a roll) about 4"
from the bottom of the basement joists. I'd like to set up the new pipe
so it's against the joists, in fact, I'd like to notch the joists
slightly so I don't even need all of the 1 1/8 inch of clearance, since
I am refinishing the basement at the same time.

My concern is that I assume that the reason it was originally plumbed
hanging down instead of against the wood was to allow for
expansion/contraction and to prevent creaking. So how much leeway do I
have? Can I notch the joists and then use loosely connected pipe
hangers to snug it up close so I can still install my ceiling without
having to lose the additional space?

Also, any other suggestions regarding this system are appreciated. Even
though this is not the first house I've owned with this type of system,
it's the first time I've needed to do any major work on one.

Please respond in the newsgroups, please, this email address is a spam
target.

Thanks,

Steve

Ads
  #2  
Old January 10th 07, 01:38 AM posted to misc.consumers.house
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Posts: 747
Default Replumbing one-pipe diverter tee system

Steve wrote:

Our house, built in 1950, has a one-pipe diverter tee system with
radiators (not cast iron, aluminum fin on copper, but they're not
baseboard) for our first floor heat (they used copper for the second
floor, but did it more like a two-pipe system). For some reason, it was
plumbed with a combination of cast iron and steel pipe rather than
copper. The steel pipes are now starting to rust and leak, and I need
to redo the system.

I'm going to use the same pipe sizes - 1" for the main loop and 1/2"
for the radiators. The existing system is hung from pipe hanger
material (that perforated flexible steel that comes in a roll) about 4"
from the bottom of the basement joists. I'd like to set up the new pipe
so it's against the joists, in fact, I'd like to notch the joists
slightly so I don't even need all of the 1 1/8 inch of clearance, since
I am refinishing the basement at the same time.

My concern is that I assume that the reason it was originally plumbed
hanging down instead of against the wood was to allow for
expansion/contraction and to prevent creaking. So how much leeway do I
have? Can I notch the joists and then use loosely connected pipe
hangers to snug it up close so I can still install my ceiling without
having to lose the additional space?

Also, any other suggestions regarding this system are appreciated. Even
though this is not the first house I've owned with this type of system,
it's the first time I've needed to do any major work on one.

Please respond in the newsgroups, please, this email address is a spam
target.

Thanks,

Steve



Hmmmmm I won't belabor the point about weakening the joists
by notching...

Get a feel for the expansion he
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/th...pes-d_931.html
It can be quite large.
Make provision for the branches to move horizontally with the trunk.


I would consider sleeving the tubing in the notches with
silicone rubber sheets to allow movement. There may be better
commercial materials for just this application.

You might post over at alt.home.repair if you haven't.

Jim
  #3  
Old January 10th 07, 06:34 PM posted to misc.consumers.house
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Posts: 182
Default Replumbing one-pipe diverter tee system

I have heard stories about people changing things with *steam* heating
systems (to make piping look better or whatever), then the system will no
longer work. Seems things were the way they were for a reason.

Sounds like you have a hot water system and not a steam system. But I would
check to see if the pipes are level or rise up slowly. The system may work
best the way it is for some reason?

Maybe the pipes are installed in a way which allows air to be bled out at a
certain point?

Anyway I would be darn sure it will still work OK, before making any changes
to the original design.

Might want to find installation instructions for a similar new system to
learn what you can and can't do with the piping.


"Steve" wrote in message
Our house, built in 1950, has a one-pipe diverter tee system with
radiators (not cast iron, aluminum fin on copper, but they're not
baseboard) for our first floor heat (they used copper for the second
floor, but did it more like a two-pipe system). For some reason, it was
plumbed with a combination of cast iron and steel pipe rather than
copper. The steel pipes are now starting to rust and leak, and I need
to redo the system.

I'm going to use the same pipe sizes - 1" for the main loop and 1/2"
for the radiators. The existing system is hung from pipe hanger
material (that perforated flexible steel that comes in a roll) about 4"
from the bottom of the basement joists. I'd like to set up the new pipe
so it's against the joists, in fact, I'd like to notch the joists
slightly so I don't even need all of the 1 1/8 inch of clearance, since
I am refinishing the basement at the same time.

My concern is that I assume that the reason it was originally plumbed
hanging down instead of against the wood was to allow for
expansion/contraction and to prevent creaking. So how much leeway do I
have? Can I notch the joists and then use loosely connected pipe
hangers to snug it up close so I can still install my ceiling without
having to lose the additional space?

Also, any other suggestions regarding this system are appreciated. Even
though this is not the first house I've owned with this type of system,
it's the first time I've needed to do any major work on one.

Please respond in the newsgroups, please, this email address is a spam
target.

Thanks,

Steve



  #4  
Old January 13th 07, 01:06 AM posted to misc.consumers.house
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18
Default Replumbing one-pipe diverter tee system

Hmm, interesting points, thanks for the responses. I believe that the
pipes are level throughout the entire basement.

Kind of tough to determine if it's going to work without actually doing
it, I think most people who have implemented this type of system have
retired by now...I will ask at the plumbing supply store, though.

One other question, in case anyone knows:

This is the third house I've owned, and they all had single pipe heat
(although the other two used copper). All of them implemented them with
the diverter's output on top, and then attached a 90 degree elbow to
run the pipes horizontal to the branches. I can't figure out why they
didn't just run the output out the side and then attach the branch
tubing directly to the tee. Any ideas? Is it to let the air rise to the
radiators instead of getting trapped in the trunk?

Thanks,

Steve

Bill wrote:
I have heard stories about people changing things with *steam* heating
systems (to make piping look better or whatever), then the system will no
longer work. Seems things were the way they were for a reason.

Sounds like you have a hot water system and not a steam system. But I would
check to see if the pipes are level or rise up slowly. The system may work
best the way it is for some reason?

Maybe the pipes are installed in a way which allows air to be bled out at a
certain point?

Anyway I would be darn sure it will still work OK, before making any changes
to the original design.

Might want to find installation instructions for a similar new system to
learn what you can and can't do with the piping.


"Steve" wrote in message
Our house, built in 1950, has a one-pipe diverter tee system with
radiators (not cast iron, aluminum fin on copper, but they're not
baseboard) for our first floor heat (they used copper for the second
floor, but did it more like a two-pipe system). For some reason, it was
plumbed with a combination of cast iron and steel pipe rather than
copper. The steel pipes are now starting to rust and leak, and I need
to redo the system.

I'm going to use the same pipe sizes - 1" for the main loop and 1/2"
for the radiators. The existing system is hung from pipe hanger
material (that perforated flexible steel that comes in a roll) about 4"
from the bottom of the basement joists. I'd like to set up the new pipe
so it's against the joists, in fact, I'd like to notch the joists
slightly so I don't even need all of the 1 1/8 inch of clearance, since
I am refinishing the basement at the same time.

My concern is that I assume that the reason it was originally plumbed
hanging down instead of against the wood was to allow for
expansion/contraction and to prevent creaking. So how much leeway do I
have? Can I notch the joists and then use loosely connected pipe
hangers to snug it up close so I can still install my ceiling without
having to lose the additional space?

Also, any other suggestions regarding this system are appreciated. Even
though this is not the first house I've owned with this type of system,
it's the first time I've needed to do any major work on one.

Please respond in the newsgroups, please, this email address is a spam
target.

Thanks,

Steve


  #5  
Old January 13th 07, 03:12 PM posted to misc.consumers.house
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,380
Default Replumbing one-pipe diverter tee system

This is the third house I've owned, and they all had single pipe heat
(although the other two used copper). All of them implemented them with
the diverter's output on top, and then attached a 90 degree elbow to
run the pipes horizontal to the branches. I can't figure out why they
didn't just run the output out the side and then attach the branch
tubing directly to the tee. Any ideas? Is it to let the air rise to the
radiators instead of getting trapped in the trunk?


That's one possibility, sure. Another is that they were originally designed
for, and installed as, convective (gravity) circulation, and later converted
to pumped circulation.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
  #6  
Old January 15th 07, 03:16 AM posted to misc.consumers.house
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 140
Default Replumbing one-pipe diverter tee system


Steve wrote:
Our house, built in 1950, has a one-pipe diverter tee system with
radiators (not cast iron, aluminum fin on copper, but they're not
baseboard) for our first floor heat (they used copper for the second
floor, but did it more like a two-pipe system). For some reason, it was
plumbed with a combination of cast iron and steel pipe rather than
copper. The steel pipes are now starting to rust and leak, and I need
to redo the system.



If I understand you correctly, the plumbing is a combination of copper
and steel components.

This is a classic way of having corrosion, because of the dissimilar
metals being in contact. There are special connectors that prevent the
two metals from coming in contact, but this would be practical only for
a few connections.

You may want to consider picking a single metal and being consistent.

 




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