Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems.

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Default Your car computer-hacker Controlled?

-- https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bqRL4Znh8Xs

(16 minute clip onward)
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Default Your car computer-hacker Controlled?

On Thursday, March 9, 2017 at 7:23:19 AM UTC-5, wrote:
-- https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bqRL4Znh8Xs

(16 minute clip onward)


Not really into videos but I can tell you this. If you got a service like Onstar and your car has ABS and traction control you can be hacked very badly, to the point where it can cause a wreck. I read about this a coupke of years ago, and now that cars are running Windows I am sure it is quite worse..

Get me a 1967 Chevy. I will make sure to watch where I am goig and won't need the steering assistance to stay in my lane nor the automatic braking in case I am headed for a stationary object at 80 MPH. I know not to do that, they taught me when I was about 12.

Stupid mother****ers today, half of them SHOULD be dead.
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Default Your car computer-hacker Controlled?

On Saturday, March 11, 2017 at 3:30:24 AM UTC-5, wrote:


Stupid mother****ers today, half of them SHOULD be dead.


Geeze Jeff, hanging around Phil lately? LOL.

But anyway, I'm not as old school as you but I don't trust computers in general. Years ago all voting machines were mechanical. They could NOT be hacked unless the laws of physics were broken. They lasted many decades with little maintenance and were 100% accurate. Any computer that can be accessed remotely can be hacked, and I can't but help wonder why politicians fought to sunset mechanical voting machines (and I'm NOT a conspiracy theorist by any stretch).

It comes down to money, but automakers could install a simple mechanical switch that would prevent the car's PCM from having any contact with the outside world unless it was activated. Of course, we could remove the microwave antenna from the car but then we would lose our NAV and Sat radio.
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Default Your car computer-hacker Controlled?

On Saturday, March 11, 2017 at 2:53:38 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Saturday, March 11, 2017 at 3:30:24 AM UTC-5, wrote:


Stupid mother****ers today, half of them SHOULD be dead.


Geeze Jeff, hanging around Phil lately? LOL.

But anyway, I'm not as old school as you but I don't trust computers in general. Years ago all voting machines were mechanical. They could NOT be hacked unless the laws of physics were broken. They lasted many decades with little maintenance and were 100% accurate. Any computer that can be accessed remotely can be hacked, and I can't but help wonder why politicians fought to sunset mechanical voting machines (and I'm NOT a conspiracy theorist by any stretch).

It comes down to money, but automakers could install a simple mechanical switch that would prevent the car's PCM from having any contact with the outside world unless it was activated. Of course, we could remove the microwave antenna from the car but then we would lose our NAV and Sat radio.


Actually Phil has been pretty nice lately. I don't know if they got him on meds or if he found a really good pot dealer.

One ting about voting machines, when it comes to federal elections I think the federal goverment should, and actually could require a paper trail. When it comes to governors n ****, mayors, not really because that would come under state and local rights, but when it comes to congress and the President, I believe that "in the public interest" they would, or should have the right to make that requirement.

However that could become quite the argument because in reality, this country is a union of fifty countries.

As far as removing the antenna from your car goes, who cares about the damn radio ? And you don't know where you are going ? When I was young and was stupid enough to run out of gas I would have to walk, perhaps for miles, to get to a gas station where I could borrow a gas can and get some gas. They made me leave my driver's license to give me the damn can. That did not happen alot because I had a good job and did not run out of gas much, but it did happen.

And there were no cellphones. I could have gotten a radiophone but their range is limited. When you drove fifty miles away the thing usually did not work. So I spent the money on food and beer. Couple times I spent a ton of money treating a bunch of people. That was better than having a radiophone. (they could push the car lol)

Maybe some would call me a Luddite, but we really are heading to hell in a handbasket.
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Default Your car computer-hacker Controlled?

On Monday, March 13, 2017 at 3:19:18 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Saturday, March 11, 2017 at 2:53:38 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Saturday, March 11, 2017 at 3:30:24 AM UTC-5, wrote:


Stupid mother****ers today, half of them SHOULD be dead.


Geeze Jeff, hanging around Phil lately? LOL.

But anyway, I'm not as old school as you but I don't trust computers in general. Years ago all voting machines were mechanical. They could NOT be hacked unless the laws of physics were broken. They lasted many decades with little maintenance and were 100% accurate. Any computer that can be accessed remotely can be hacked, and I can't but help wonder why politicians fought to sunset mechanical voting machines (and I'm NOT a conspiracy theorist by any stretch).

It comes down to money, but automakers could install a simple mechanical switch that would prevent the car's PCM from having any contact with the outside world unless it was activated. Of course, we could remove the microwave antenna from the car but then we would lose our NAV and Sat radio.


Actually Phil has been pretty nice lately. I don't know if they got him on meds or if he found a really good pot dealer.

One ting about voting machines, when it comes to federal elections I think the federal goverment should, and actually could require a paper trail. When it comes to governors n ****, mayors, not really because that would come under state and local rights, but when it comes to congress and the President, I believe that "in the public interest" they would, or should have the right to make that requirement.

However that could become quite the argument because in reality, this country is a union of fifty countries.

As far as removing the antenna from your car goes, who cares about the damn radio ? And you don't know where you are going ? When I was young and was stupid enough to run out of gas I would have to walk, perhaps for miles, to get to a gas station where I could borrow a gas can and get some gas. They made me leave my driver's license to give me the damn can. That did not happen alot because I had a good job and did not run out of gas much, but it did happen.

And there were no cellphones. I could have gotten a radiophone but their range is limited. When you drove fifty miles away the thing usually did not work. So I spent the money on food and beer. Couple times I spent a ton of money treating a bunch of people. That was better than having a radiophone.. (they could push the car lol)

Maybe some would call me a Luddite, but we really are heading to hell in a handbasket.


I don't use the sat radio in my car, but lots of people do. If I spent more time in the car I would pay for the subscription. But I do LOVE the nav, particularly the built in variety. If car hacking comes to be reality, I'll disable the microwave antenna and put my old Garmin back in service.


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Default Your car computer-hacker Controlled?

"I don't use the sat radio in my car, but lots of people do. If I spent more time in the car I would pay for the subscription. But I do LOVE the nav, particularly the built in variety. If car hacking comes to be reality, I'll disable the microwave antenna and put my old Garmin back in service. "

Far as I can glean, the radio is not the problem. It is the problem detector, like if you get in a wreck. They hack in through that and can control your brakes and acceleration but ONLY if you have traction control and a few other things. What I read is that it happened through an ONSTAR system.

If I remember correctly it did not happen to a regular person, it was the company that had kids try to hack into it. It was not done to the average Joe on the street.

But it could. Unless they did some serious software modifications it certainly could. Newer cars can be different but the fact that a bunch of them run Windows is not really reassuring.

YOu might say they should be runnning Linux but the reason Linux is not hacked as much is because of its smaller market share it is simply not as big a target. It is open source, which means if someone wanted to take the time they could hack the **** out of it easier than Windows.

The MAC OS, well that is a possibility. They are not impervious to hacking but it can be done. If all the cars in the country ran it, it would become a target and gain the reputation of Windows in a very short time. These kids are good.

The only real solution is to keep the car offline. Just like some people still have old 98SE PCs running offline and burn CDs of the files they generate for transfer, when they are good and ready, to a modern PC. Only contact anythimg by choice. I would almost recommend the Garmin instead but only if you want them to know where you are. If you have a mistress or whatever, or like to party with some people of less than pristine character (by "their" standards) you might want to shut even that thing off.

People are getting used to being watched all the time, and I do not see that as a good thing.
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Default Your car computer-hacker Controlled?

On Thursday, March 16, 2017 at 7:53:56 PM UTC-4, wrote:
"I don't use the sat radio in my car, but lots of people do. If I spent more time in the car I would pay for the subscription. But I do LOVE the nav, particularly the built in variety. If car hacking comes to be reality, I'll disable the microwave antenna and put my old Garmin back in service. "


Far as I can glean, the radio is not the problem. It is the problem detector, like if you get in a wreck. They hack in through that and can control your brakes and acceleration but ONLY if you have traction control and a few other things. What I read is that it happened through an ONSTAR system.

snip


My wife's car has ABS, traction and stability control as well as built in nav and sat radio (unsubscribed), but any system control influence the car can possibly have from the outside world would be through the nav/sat link. Removing the microwave antenna will take the car off line, assuming it can be remotely addressed at all (Ford Edge). It has no On Star (which I believe is cellular based?).

I would almost recommend the Garmin instead but only if you want them to know where you are. If you have a mistress or whatever, or like to party with some people of less than pristine character (by "their" standards) you might want to shut even that thing off.



Not worried about that.. I have no problems with surveillance cameras out of doors or any public place for that matter. In fact, since I'm one of those people who commit no crimes, I feel safer with them about. As far as the Garmin leaving a bread crumb trail in it's memory, that doesn't bother me in the least (and even those can be erased).


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Default Your car computer-hacker Controlled?

"In fact, since I'm one of those people who commit no crimes, I feel safer with them about. "

Remember the old saying - when seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

Nonetheless, I have no problems with cameras. Even though I am pretty much lawless I have respect for other people and would never rob anyone or anything like that. The only thing I do lately is smoke pot, and they do seem to be lax on that these days, though I heard this particular town likes to get tough on it. If you got cameras that can see into my garage then more power to ya, and you can house me and feed me for as long as you like because you ain't getting any money. Plus I have a ****load of maladies that need looked at by a doctor.

The cameras won't save you. There is a guy sitting there monitoring maybe fifty of them or whatever and he has to catch what is happening and then to stop a crime has to get Scotty to transport some cops to the scene, otherwise they are dispatched in a car from who know how far away.

But if you do get mugged or something at least there is a record and they might be more able to catch the perp and put him away. It is a two edged sword. You lose privacy, but really if you think about it, you are in public. When they go snooping around on people's property, that bothers me.

Cars also now have a "black box" that'll tell about what went on right before an accident. I am not really against that because if someone is driving like an asshole they need to be, well whatever. You can't do what we used to do in the 1970s, like go 100 MPH. (there is one place in Cleveland where you can get away with that, well a couple actually)

There was some talk of disabling cellphones if moving more than 20 MPH or something, but what of the passengers ? They say driving while talking on the phone is as bad as drunk driving. Many cities have laws against it now but they are hard to enforce. Plus none of these laws take into account the person driving. Some people can drink a fifth of vodka and drive just fine, I have known such people. Others can't drive after two beers, I have known such people.

One of the things I am against is electric power steering. I know electronics. I can envision a transistor shorting out and taking the wheel all the way right or left. It is a bad thing, give me the old hydraulic system. So now they got cars that can steer if you veer out of your lane, that is ridiculous.

They got new table saws now that will stop the blade immediately if it detects flesh, somehow. Now let's teach the kids on one of these and one day they have to work with a saw without this feature and cut their hands off.

Like cars, we had no airbags. When we hit something the steering wheel pounded into our chest, OUCH. That'll learnya. Next time look where you are going !

The removal of all consequences of one's actions is not a good thing. People will not learn by their mistakes. When I was young, a (very) few times I ran out of gas and had to walk miles to get some. I learned to put gas in the car. Now people just call AAA on their cellphone and a truck comes out with gas.

Two edged sword this technology.
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