Back in the 70s, I used a red bulb with a special plastic tip that did
not melt. They were cheap and did a fair job. Then there was solder
wick. That worked well on PC boards, but not real well on terminal
strips and tube sockets. Plus is was fairly costly.

So, what's the latest in desoldering gadgets?
I need to get something for recapping, and am not sure what to buy. I
see both of the (above) are still sold.

One other thing, I should pick up some pot and switch cleaner. I know
this has greatly changed due to clean air laws. Where do I even begin
getting something that works well, and is not overly priced? (Brand
name)? I hope they have not made useless cleaners, like they have done
with auto products. (I remember when carb cleaner actually cleaned!!! )

Since it appears that most online stores have a rather large minimum
order as well as high shipping fees, I am limited to Radio Shack, unless
there is some smaller online source that sells in small quanties, or
maybe ebay. But buying online I need to know what I am ordering ahead of
time.

I'll be using this almost entirely on 40 to 60 year old tube type
electronics.

On 2/20/2017 6:37 AM, wrote:
So, what's the latest in desoldering gadgets?

One of these.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/381865048840

One other thing, I should pick up some pot and switch
cleaner.

https://www.radioshack.com/products/deoxit-d5s-6-spray-contact-cleaner-and-rejuvenator





--
Jeff-1.0
wa6fwi
http://www.foxsmercantile.com

On Monday, February 20, 2017 at 7:38:10 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Back in the 70s, I used a red bulb with a special plastic tip that did
not melt. They were cheap and did a fair job. Then there was solder
wick. That worked well on PC boards, but not real well on terminal
strips and tube sockets. Plus is was fairly costly.

So, what's the latest in desoldering gadgets?
I need to get something for recapping, and am not sure what to buy. I
see both of the (above) are still sold.

One other thing, I should pick up some pot and switch cleaner. I know
this has greatly changed due to clean air laws. Where do I even begin
getting something that works well, and is not overly priced? (Brand
name)? I hope they have not made useless cleaners, like they have done
with auto products. (I remember when carb cleaner actually cleaned!!! )

Since it appears that most online stores have a rather large minimum
order as well as high shipping fees, I am limited to Radio Shack, unless
there is some smaller online source that sells in small quanties, or
maybe ebay. But buying online I need to know what I am ordering ahead of
time.

I'll be using this almost entirely on 40 to 60 year old tube type
electronics.

For through hole type stuff I love my DP-100. It pays to clean up
the o-ring every now and then.

George H.

On Monday, February 20, 2017 at 7:38:10 AM UTC-5, wrote:

So, what's the latest in desoldering gadgets?
I need to get something for recapping, and am not sure what to buy. I
see both of the (above) are still sold.

Well, you are certainly asking a lot of good questions!

I keep a number of things on the bench - and my wife, entirely unsolicited, purchased a fancy solder & rework station for me with hot air and such. Yes, it is from China, but she even as she is aware of my resistance to things from China, she also a very practical individual, and spending many hundreds vs. less than $80 does appeal. The hot air wand does a great job on boards, and the 'tunable' soldering iron can get hot enough for even 50-50 solder to liquefy.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....wL._SX342_.jpg Is an excellent tool for fine work.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/07...g?v=1431988566 What my wife got me.

A bulb is fine in most cases, but manipulating it can be awkward.

Soldering braid is critical for board work.

Note that for years, I got away with a simple 38-watt pencil, a bulb, dental picks and patience. But when I became more seriously involved with audio and boards, I got fancy.

As to pot and switch cleaner - there are several schools of thought on this - and Jeff is a purist. Rather than start a dead debate all over again, DeOxit in the quantities you will use (with care) is just fine.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

http://www.ohgizmo.com/2006/03/06/th...ofer-ever-made

On 2017/02/20 5:46 AM, Foxs Mercantile wrote:
On 2/20/2017 6:37 AM, wrote:
So, what's the latest in desoldering gadgets?

One of these.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/381865048840

If you are going to recommend a desoldering pump I suggest you stick
with the Solda-Pullet (made in USA). I have used the no-name knockoffs
and they don't last a month in our shop, whereas I have three
Solda-pullets that I bought over ten years ago that see daily duty and
other than replacing the tip from time to time just last and last. We
bought a fourth one recently and it too is running fine.

The knockoffs are just a waste of money.


One other thing, I should pick up some pot and switch
cleaner.

https://www.radioshack.com/products/deoxit-d5s-6-spray-contact-cleaner-and-rejuvenator


De-Oxit is pretty good for what it does I hear.

We use Nu-trol from MG Chemicals and it gives long term repair to pots
and contacts.

John :-#)#

--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
(604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 13:20:55 -0600, oldschool wrote:

http://www.ohgizmo.com/2006/03/06/th...ofer-ever-made

Didn't ElectroVoice sell a 30 inch speaker? It wasn't as big but you
could actually buy one.

--
Jim Mueller

To get my real email address, replace wrongname with dadoheadman.
Then replace nospam with fastmail. Lastly, replace com with us.

On Monday, February 20, 2017 at 4:18:03 PM UTC-5, Jim Mueller wrote:
On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 13:20:55 -0600, oldschool wrote:

http://www.ohgizmo.com/2006/03/06/th...ofer-ever-made

Didn't ElectroVoice sell a 30 inch speaker? It wasn't as big but you
could actually buy one.

--
Jim Mueller

To get my real email address, replace wrongname with dadoheadman.
Then replace nospam with fastmail. Lastly, replace com with us.

Our church has a pipe organ that uses electronics for the lowest notes as they don't have room for the length required for a pure pipe bass. That sub would be perfect..

On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 06:37:49 -0600, wrote:

Back in the 70s, I used a red bulb with a special plastic tip that did
not melt.

Sigh. That goes way back. I graduated to a pump type desoldering
tool as soon as they were available:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/300771835247
For $1.15/ea, get a pile of them.

Solder wick is useful for some things, but I avoid using it. Details
if you want them later.

Next, I bought and rebuilt a Pace desoldering station:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/pace-desoldering-station.jpg
It worked well for me for many years. I now have several similar
machines.

I then went to a hot air SMT desoldering station. Not this one, but
this is what I would recommend:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/191557453776
However, I would not use it on terminal strips or tube socket. It's
made for PCB's only.

I need to get something for recapping, and am not sure what to buy. I
see both of the (above) are still sold.

For recapping, I use just a soldering iron to heat both leads of the
capacitor alternately and just rock the capacitor out. Or, I cut off
the capacitor and extract the leads one at a time. That leaves the
holes plugged with solder, which I remove with either the hand pump or
the Pace desoldering station. I suggest something like this:
http://www.ebay.com/131493990376



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

wrote:
http://www.ohgizmo.com/2006/03/06/th...ofer-ever-made

https://playingintheworldgame.files..../diatone-2.jpg

On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 13:20:55 -0600, wrote:

http://www.ohgizmo.com/2006/03/06/th...ofer-ever-made


Not even close. The approx 4 story tall horn that NASA built to
reproduce the sound of an Apollo launch will take that honor. The
speaker was used to test sound mitigating techniques. I believe it is
located at Redstone.

John
John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.tnduction.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address

On Tue, 21 Feb 2017 12:33:12 -0500, Neon John wrote:

On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 13:20:55 -0600, wrote:

http://www.ohgizmo.com/2006/03/06/th...ofer-ever-made


Not even close. The approx 4 story tall horn that NASA built to
reproduce the sound of an Apollo launch will take that honor. The
speaker was used to test sound mitigating techniques. I believe it is
located at Redstone.

John
John DeArmond

I did not find that one on the web, but I did find THIS:
http://alex-audio.com/en/prod/world-biggest-speaker/

The Woofers are 80 inches each....
Handle 5000 watts per channel.

Heck, that would involve a power amp with around 200 6L6 or 807 tubes in
Push-Pull Parallel-Parallel-Parallel-Parallel etc... For EACH
channel...... (And an output transformer about 3 foot big, weighing
close to the weight of a Harley motor cycle, and costing 10X the price
for a brand new Harley).....

On 20 Feb 2017 21:18:00 GMT, Jim Mueller wrote:

On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 13:20:55 -0600, oldschool wrote:

http://www.ohgizmo.com/2006/03/06/th...ofer-ever-made

Didn't ElectroVoice sell a 30 inch speaker? It wasn't as big but you
could actually buy one.

I do recall hearing about such a speaker.....

I recall in the early 70's when 15" was the biggest speaker sold, that
some company came out with an 18". Of course I wanted a pair of them
until I saw the price....

On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 06:37:49 -0600, oldschool wrote:

Back in the 70s, I used a red bulb with a special plastic tip that did
not melt. They were cheap and did a fair job.

The red bulb ones don't work very well; the bulb is too small. The ones
with a larger blue bulb are much better. But the main problem with bulb
type solder suckers is cleaning them. You can shake a fair amount of the
old solder out of the bulb but quite a bit remains. You have to be
imaginative and patient to get it out.

--
Jim Mueller

To get my real email address, replace wrongname with dadoheadman.
Then replace nospam with fastmail. Lastly, replace com with us.

On 21 Feb 2017 21:03:51 GMT, Jim Mueller wrote:

On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 06:37:49 -0600, oldschool wrote:

Back in the 70s, I used a red bulb with a special plastic tip that did
not melt. They were cheap and did a fair job.

The red bulb ones don't work very well; the bulb is too small. The ones
with a larger blue bulb are much better. But the main problem with bulb
type solder suckers is cleaning them. You can shake a fair amount of the
old solder out of the bulb but quite a bit remains. You have to be
imaginative and patient to get it out.

I've never seen the blue ones, but I remember having a lot of problems
with the tip getting clogged in the red one.

In article om,
Jim Mueller wrote:

On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 13:20:55 -0600, oldschool wrote:

http://www.ohgizmo.com/2006/03/06/th...ofer-ever-made

Didn't ElectroVoice sell a 30 inch speaker? It wasn't as big but you
could actually buy one.

ElectroVoice did briefly offer a 30" woofer. It didn't sound very good
and didn't last very long on the market.

Here's the backstory:

Paul Klipsch (father of the Klipschorn) had cut a deal with EV where EV
provided 15" woofers with special characteristics to Paul to use in the
'Horns, and in exchange Klipsch licensed EV to produce both kits and
ready-built versions of a modified K-Horn. (It was the EV "Georgian" in
case you're interested).

The mods EV had made offended Klipsch, so he was already ****ed at them
(picky, he was), and then when the woofers they were sending started
showing up with cracked magnets Paul cancelled the agreement and found
another source for his woofers.

EV, no longer able to offer an enclosure with the bottom end provided by
a horn woofer, tried to replace it with that 30" behemoth in a more
"standard" enclosure. Didn't work out.

Later, EV tried a scaled-up version of the horn, using an 18" woofer
(the "Patrician IV"). Paul told them that wouldn't sound right but they
didn't listen. As usual, he was right.

Isaac

wrote:

On Tue, 21 Feb 2017 12:33:12 -0500, Neon John wrote:



The Woofers are 80 inches each....
Handle 5000 watts per channel.

Heck, that would involve a power amp with around 200 6L6 or 807 tubes in
Push-Pull Parallel-Parallel-Parallel-Parallel etc... For EACH
channel...... (And an output transformer about 3 foot big, weighing
close to the weight of a Harley motor cycle, and costing 10X the price
for a brand new Harley).....
No, certainly not! You use the modulator from an old AM broadcast
transmitter. I was at a Grateful Dead concert in 1969 and they wheeled out
this THING on the stage with big glass globes, and when they lit up I
realized they were TUBES (valves to the British)! Not sure of the type, but
at least several thousand Watts. I borrowed a set of ear muffs and sat back
for a show!

Jon

On Fri, 24 Feb 2017 16:11:20 -0600, Jon Elson wrote:

wrote:

On Tue, 21 Feb 2017 12:33:12 -0500, Neon John wrote:



The Woofers are 80 inches each....
Handle 5000 watts per channel.

Heck, that would involve a power amp with around 200 6L6 or 807 tubes in
Push-Pull Parallel-Parallel-Parallel-Parallel etc... For EACH
channel...... (And an output transformer about 3 foot big, weighing
close to the weight of a Harley motor cycle, and costing 10X the price
for a brand new Harley).....

No, certainly not! You use the modulator from an old AM broadcast
transmitter. I was at a Grateful Dead concert in 1969 and they wheeled out
this THING on the stage with big glass globes, and when they lit up I
realized they were TUBES (valves to the British)! Not sure of the type, but
at least several thousand Watts. I borrowed a set of ear muffs and sat back
for a show!

Jon

I was at several Grateful Dead concerts in the late 60's and afterwards.
I never saw any such thing. Are you sure you were not "tripping"? That
may have just been a common 6L6 tube in a guitar amp, and your
hallucinations made it look really BIG....

Who ever heard of wearing earmuffs at a Grateful Dead concert.....

And since you mentioned it. What the hell is wrong with them British?
Valves are plumbing parts. Tubes are electronic parts!!!

Seriously, I have heard of using AM transmitter tubes for audio amps. I
dont know what those tubes are numbered, or how much power they output,
but I know that many AM radio stations have power output in the
thousands of watts range. But to use that kind of tube would require
custom output transformers that would likely mimic the pole transformers
used to feed our homes....

And just for historic value, the original 1969 Woodstock concert ran
Somewhere between 3500 watts to 12,000 watts, using Mcintosh mi350
monoblock tube amps for their PA system. The article below seems to
conflict whether it was 3,500W or 12,000W.
Either way, that PA system had to cover a very large area, and
apparently it did the job.

http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100811

These Mcintosh MC3500 power amps have EIGHT power output tubes
6LQ6/6JE6B. These amps had an output of 350W. (mono).

On Sat, 25 Feb 2017, wrote:

On Fri, 24 Feb 2017 16:11:20 -0600, Jon Elson wrote:

wrote:

On Tue, 21 Feb 2017 12:33:12 -0500, Neon John wrote:



The Woofers are 80 inches each....
Handle 5000 watts per channel.

Heck, that would involve a power amp with around 200 6L6 or 807 tubes in
Push-Pull Parallel-Parallel-Parallel-Parallel etc... For EACH
channel...... (And an output transformer about 3 foot big, weighing
close to the weight of a Harley motor cycle, and costing 10X the price
for a brand new Harley).....

No, certainly not! You use the modulator from an old AM broadcast
transmitter. I was at a Grateful Dead concert in 1969 and they wheeled out
this THING on the stage with big glass globes, and when they lit up I
realized they were TUBES (valves to the British)! Not sure of the type, but
at least several thousand Watts. I borrowed a set of ear muffs and sat back
for a show!

Jon

I was at several Grateful Dead concerts in the late 60's and afterwards.
I never saw any such thing. Are you sure you were not "tripping"? That
may have just been a common 6L6 tube in a guitar amp, and your
hallucinations made it look really BIG....

They went through various iterations, and sound people. SOmeone got
hooked in at one point, maybe it was Bob Heil but maybe it was the
soundman for Quicksilver Messenger Service (who was also a ham), there was
s story of someone having an Electrovoice "Voice of the Theatre" or
whatever it was adapting that. Owsley was involved, leading to the Wall
of SOund, which almost as soon as they finally got it going right, they
abandoned. They were using McIntosh amplifiers for a while, there's a
story, maybe about Woodstock, where they blew them out and had to hurry to
find replacements, finding a "close" dealership and getting them to open
up on a Sunday or something.

Things were evolving, and bands like the Dead helped that developemnt. So
they went to that Wall of SOund to adapt to the much bigger venues, then
dropped it because it was too much trouble to move, but I thought the work
helped other things to develop. So they may have been using just about
anything at some point, including home built equipment.

If you paralleled enough tubes, the output impedance would go down, so no
matching transformer for 8ohm speakers. I'm not sure if that was ever
done with audio, but I have seen it done with radio amplifiers, a bunch of
tubes in parallel so the output impedance is 50 ohms to match the coax.

Michael

On Sat, 25 Feb 2017 12:12:56 -0500, Michael Black wrote:

On Sat, 25 Feb 2017, wrote:

On Fri, 24 Feb 2017 16:11:20 -0600, Jon Elson wrote:

wrote:



No, certainly not! You use the modulator from an old AM broadcast
transmitter. I was at a Grateful Dead concert in 1969 and they wheeled out
this THING on the stage with big glass globes, and when they lit up I
realized they were TUBES (valves to the British)! Not sure of the type, but
at least several thousand Watts. I borrowed a set of ear muffs and sat back
for a show!

Jon

I was at several Grateful Dead concerts in the late 60's and afterwards.
I never saw any such thing. Are you sure you were not "tripping"? That
may have just been a common 6L6 tube in a guitar amp, and your
hallucinations made it look really BIG....

They went through various iterations, and sound people. SOmeone got
hooked in at one point, maybe it was Bob Heil but maybe it was the
soundman for Quicksilver Messenger Service (who was also a ham), there was
s story of someone having an Electrovoice "Voice of the Theatre" or
whatever it was adapting that. Owsley was involved, leading to the Wall
of SOund, which almost as soon as they finally got it going right, they
abandoned. They were using McIntosh amplifiers for a while, there's a
story, maybe about Woodstock, where they blew them out and had to hurry to
find replacements, finding a "close" dealership and getting them to open
up on a Sunday or something.

Things were evolving, and bands like the Dead helped that developemnt. So
they went to that Wall of SOund to adapt to the much bigger venues, then
dropped it because it was too much trouble to move, but I thought the work
helped other things to develop. So they may have been using just about
anything at some point, including home built equipment.

If you paralleled enough tubes, the output impedance would go down, so no
matching transformer for 8ohm speakers. I'm not sure if that was ever
done with audio, but I have seen it done with radio amplifiers, a bunch of
tubes in parallel so the output impedance is 50 ohms to match the coax.

Michael


This is a good article about the "Wall of Sound".
It was (and probably still is) the greatest sound system ever built, but
it nearly bankrupt the Dead, and moving all that equipmnt from show to
show does seem very impractical. Those mcintosh MC3500 amps are still
the best anps ever built. More powerful solid state amps have been
built, but none can match that tube sound.

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/a...-wall-of-sound

I dont doubt that there were fried amps, blown speakers and so on at
those concerts. Everything was being run at Max power and much of this
was still in development stages.

Paralleled tubes like you said, dont seem real practical for audio amps.
Having that high DC voltage on the speaker leads seems very dangerous.

wrote:

Seriously, I have heard of using AM transmitter tubes for audio amps.
I don't know what those tubes are numbered, or how much power they output,
but I know that many AM radio stations have power output in the
thousands of watts range. But to use that kind of tube would require
custom output transformers that would likely mimic the pole transformers
used to feed our homes....


A pole pig would wave been useless, since they weren't designed to
pass DC, and they aren't center tapped on the primary. On top of that,
they would have a horrible frequency response, because they were
designed to operate at 60Hz.

A 25KW, plate modulated AM transmitter would produce 12.5 KW of
audio but you would have needed to a hundred amps of three phase 480VAC
to power it. Something I doubt that was available on that farm, or from
portable generators. You could move the modulator from a 5KW AM
transmitter, but the modulation transformer weighed over a ton. We had
to abandon one from a Gates transmitter that was bought from WQBQ for
spate parts. Sadly, it was only a couple years old, and one of the
premium replacements from Peter Dahl.


And just for historic value, the original 1969 Woodstock concert ran
Somewhere between 3500 watts to 12,000 watts, using Mcintosh mi350
monoblock tube amps for their PA system. The article below seems to
conflict whether it was 3,500W or 12,000W.
Either way, that PA system had to cover a very large area, and
apparently it did the job.


Those Mcintosh amps were not designed for that type of service.



http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100811

These Mcintosh MC3500 power amps have EIGHT power output tubes
6LQ6/6JE6B. These amps had an output of 350W. (mono).

The RCA TTU-1/TTU-25 UHF TV transmitters used 16 6146 tubes in
parallel for a video amp with a response from DC to over five MHz. It
was a 'Distributed Amplifier'.


--
Never **** off an Engineer!

They don't get mad.

They don't get even.

They go for over unity! ;-)

wrote:

Seriously, I have heard of using AM transmitter tubes for audio amps.
I don't know what those tubes are numbered, or how much power they output,
but I know that many AM radio stations have power output in the
thousands of watts range. But to use that kind of tube would require
custom output transformers that would likely mimic the pole transformers
used to feed our homes....


A pole pig would wave been useless, since they weren't designed to
pass DC, and they aren't center tapped on the primary. On top of that,
they would have a horrible frequency response, because they were
designed to operate at 60Hz.

A 25KW, plate modulated AM transmitter would produce 12.5 KW of
audio but you would have needed to a hundred amps of three phase 480VAC
to power it. Something I doubt that was available on that farm, or from
portable generators. You could move the modulator from a 5KW AM
transmitter, but the modulation transformer weighed over a ton. We had
to abandon one from a Gates transmitter that was bought from WQBQ for
spate parts. Sadly, it was only a couple years old, and one of the
premium replacements from Peter Dahl.


And just for historic value, the original 1969 Woodstock concert ran
Somewhere between 3500 watts to 12,000 watts, using Mcintosh mi350
monoblock tube amps for their PA system. The article below seems to
conflict whether it was 3,500W or 12,000W.
Either way, that PA system had to cover a very large area, and
apparently it did the job.


Those Mcintosh amps were not designed for that type of service.



http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100811

These Mcintosh MC3500 power amps have EIGHT power output tubes
6LQ6/6JE6B. These amps had an output of 350W. (mono).

The RCA TTU-1/TTU-25 UHF TV transmitters used 16 6146 tubes in
parallel for a video amp with a response from DC to over five MHz. It
was a 'Distributed Amplifier'.


--
Never **** off an Engineer!

They don't get mad.

They don't get even.

They go for over unity! ;-)

On Sun, 26 Feb 2017 22:17:57 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

wrote:

Seriously, I have heard of using AM transmitter tubes for audio amps.
I don't know what those tubes are numbered, or how much power they output,
but I know that many AM radio stations have power output in the
thousands of watts range. But to use that kind of tube would require
custom output transformers that would likely mimic the pole transformers
used to feed our homes....


A pole pig would wave been useless, since they weren't designed to
pass DC, and they aren't center tapped on the primary. On top of that,
they would have a horrible frequency response, because they were
designed to operate at 60Hz.

Thats right, no center tap.... Back to the drawing board


A 25KW, plate modulated AM transmitter would produce 12.5 KW of
audio but you would have needed to a hundred amps of three phase 480VAC
to power it. Something I doubt that was available on that farm, or from
portable generators. You could move the modulator from a 5KW AM
transmitter, but the modulation transformer weighed over a ton. We had
to abandon one from a Gates transmitter that was bought from WQBQ for
spate parts. Sadly, it was only a couple years old, and one of the
premium replacements from Peter Dahl.

Too bad you abandoned that transformer. You should have rented a skid
loader or farm tractor with a loader. My 1959 farm tractor, which is
small compared to modern ones, lifts round bales of hay all the time.
They weight anywhere from 650 lbs to 1800 lbs. It struggles on those
1800 lb ones, but a larger tractor could easily handle a ton or more. (I
dont buy or make bales larger than 1500 lbs).


And just for historic value, the original 1969 Woodstock concert ran
Somewhere between 3500 watts to 12,000 watts, using Mcintosh mi350
monoblock tube amps for their PA system. The article below seems to
conflict whether it was 3,500W or 12,000W.
Either way, that PA system had to cover a very large area, and
apparently it did the job.


Those Mcintosh amps were not designed for that type of service.

I thought that same thing, but they apparently can and did handle that
abuse, The Greatful Dead,"Wall of Sound". Was entirely run from Mcintosh
MC3500, Tube amps, and the MC2300 solid state amps, having a total of
around 28,000 watts. Not the intended use, but they held up....



http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100811

These Mcintosh MC3500 power amps have EIGHT power output tubes
6LQ6/6JE6B. These amps had an output of 350W. (mono).

The RCA TTU-1/TTU-25 UHF TV transmitters used 16 6146 tubes in
parallel for a video amp with a response from DC to over five MHz. It
was a 'Distributed Amplifier'.

Im not real familiar with transmitters, but I know that tube is used in
Ham transmitters and is similar to a 6L6 (or am I thinking 6LQ6?).

On Sun, 26 Feb 2017 22:17:57 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

wrote:

Seriously, I have heard of using AM transmitter tubes for audio amps.
I don't know what those tubes are numbered, or how much power they output,
but I know that many AM radio stations have power output in the
thousands of watts range. But to use that kind of tube would require
custom output transformers that would likely mimic the pole transformers
used to feed our homes....


A pole pig would wave been useless, since they weren't designed to
pass DC, and they aren't center tapped on the primary. On top of that,
they would have a horrible frequency response, because they were
designed to operate at 60Hz.

Thats right, no center tap.... Back to the drawing board


A 25KW, plate modulated AM transmitter would produce 12.5 KW of
audio but you would have needed to a hundred amps of three phase 480VAC
to power it. Something I doubt that was available on that farm, or from
portable generators. You could move the modulator from a 5KW AM
transmitter, but the modulation transformer weighed over a ton. We had
to abandon one from a Gates transmitter that was bought from WQBQ for
spate parts. Sadly, it was only a couple years old, and one of the
premium replacements from Peter Dahl.

Too bad you abandoned that transformer. You should have rented a skid
loader or farm tractor with a loader. My 1959 farm tractor, which is
small compared to modern ones, lifts round bales of hay all the time.
They weight anywhere from 650 lbs to 1800 lbs. It struggles on those
1800 lb ones, but a larger tractor could easily handle a ton or more. (I
dont buy or make bales larger than 1500 lbs).


And just for historic value, the original 1969 Woodstock concert ran
Somewhere between 3500 watts to 12,000 watts, using Mcintosh mi350
monoblock tube amps for their PA system. The article below seems to
conflict whether it was 3,500W or 12,000W.
Either way, that PA system had to cover a very large area, and
apparently it did the job.


Those Mcintosh amps were not designed for that type of service.

I thought that same thing, but they apparently can and did handle that
abuse, The Greatful Dead,"Wall of Sound". Was entirely run from Mcintosh
MC3500, Tube amps, and the MC2300 solid state amps, having a total of
around 28,000 watts. Not the intended use, but they held up....



http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100811

These Mcintosh MC3500 power amps have EIGHT power output tubes
6LQ6/6JE6B. These amps had an output of 350W. (mono).

The RCA TTU-1/TTU-25 UHF TV transmitters used 16 6146 tubes in
parallel for a video amp with a response from DC to over five MHz. It
was a 'Distributed Amplifier'.

Im not real familiar with transmitters, but I know that tube is used in
Ham transmitters and is similar to a 6L6 (or am I thinking 6LQ6?).

On Mon, 27 Feb 2017, wrote:

On Sun, 26 Feb 2017 22:17:57 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

wrote:

Seriously, I have heard of using AM transmitter tubes for audio amps.
I don't know what those tubes are numbered, or how much power they output,
but I know that many AM radio stations have power output in the
thousands of watts range. But to use that kind of tube would require
custom output transformers that would likely mimic the pole transformers
used to feed our homes....


A pole pig would wave been useless, since they weren't designed to
pass DC, and they aren't center tapped on the primary. On top of that,
they would have a horrible frequency response, because they were
designed to operate at 60Hz.

Thats right, no center tap.... Back to the drawing board


A 25KW, plate modulated AM transmitter would produce 12.5 KW of
audio but you would have needed to a hundred amps of three phase 480VAC
to power it. Something I doubt that was available on that farm, or from
portable generators. You could move the modulator from a 5KW AM
transmitter, but the modulation transformer weighed over a ton. We had
to abandon one from a Gates transmitter that was bought from WQBQ for
spate parts. Sadly, it was only a couple years old, and one of the
premium replacements from Peter Dahl.

Too bad you abandoned that transformer. You should have rented a skid
loader or farm tractor with a loader. My 1959 farm tractor, which is
small compared to modern ones, lifts round bales of hay all the time.
They weight anywhere from 650 lbs to 1800 lbs. It struggles on those
1800 lb ones, but a larger tractor could easily handle a ton or more. (I
dont buy or make bales larger than 1500 lbs).


And just for historic value, the original 1969 Woodstock concert ran
Somewhere between 3500 watts to 12,000 watts, using Mcintosh mi350
monoblock tube amps for their PA system. The article below seems to
conflict whether it was 3,500W or 12,000W.
Either way, that PA system had to cover a very large area, and
apparently it did the job.


Those Mcintosh amps were not designed for that type of service.

I thought that same thing, but they apparently can and did handle that
abuse, The Greatful Dead,"Wall of Sound". Was entirely run from Mcintosh
MC3500, Tube amps, and the MC2300 solid state amps, having a total of
around 28,000 watts. Not the intended use, but they held up....



http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100811

These Mcintosh MC3500 power amps have EIGHT power output tubes
6LQ6/6JE6B. These amps had an output of 350W. (mono).

The RCA TTU-1/TTU-25 UHF TV transmitters used 16 6146 tubes in
parallel for a video amp with a response from DC to over five MHz. It
was a 'Distributed Amplifier'.

Im not real familiar with transmitters, but I know that tube is used in
Ham transmitters and is similar to a 6L6 (or am I thinking 6LQ6?).

The 6L6 was seen in ham transmitters quite a bit.

But I think you're thinking of the 807 (and there was also the 1629, I
think I got that number right) which was similar, and there was a long
supply of them in the surplus market well after WWII.

Michael

In article le.org,
says...

On Mon, 27 Feb 2017, wrote:

On Sun, 26 Feb 2017 22:17:57 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

wrote:

Seriously, I have heard of using AM transmitter tubes for audio amps.
I don't know what those tubes are numbered, or how much power they output,
but I know that many AM radio stations have power output in the
thousands of watts range. But to use that kind of tube would require
custom output transformers that would likely mimic the pole transformers
used to feed our homes....


A pole pig would wave been useless, since they weren't designed to
pass DC, and they aren't center tapped on the primary. On top of that,
they would have a horrible frequency response, because they were
designed to operate at 60Hz.

Thats right, no center tap.... Back to the drawing board


A 25KW, plate modulated AM transmitter would produce 12.5 KW of
audio but you would have needed to a hundred amps of three phase 480VAC
to power it. Something I doubt that was available on that farm, or from
portable generators. You could move the modulator from a 5KW AM
transmitter, but the modulation transformer weighed over a ton. We had
to abandon one from a Gates transmitter that was bought from WQBQ for
spate parts. Sadly, it was only a couple years old, and one of the
premium replacements from Peter Dahl.

Too bad you abandoned that transformer. You should have rented a skid
loader or farm tractor with a loader. My 1959 farm tractor, which is
small compared to modern ones, lifts round bales of hay all the time.
They weight anywhere from 650 lbs to 1800 lbs. It struggles on those
1800 lb ones, but a larger tractor could easily handle a ton or more. (I
dont buy or make bales larger than 1500 lbs).


And just for historic value, the original 1969 Woodstock concert ran
Somewhere between 3500 watts to 12,000 watts, using Mcintosh mi350
monoblock tube amps for their PA system. The article below seems to
conflict whether it was 3,500W or 12,000W.
Either way, that PA system had to cover a very large area, and
apparently it did the job.


Those Mcintosh amps were not designed for that type of service.

I thought that same thing, but they apparently can and did handle that
abuse, The Greatful Dead,"Wall of Sound". Was entirely run from Mcintosh
MC3500, Tube amps, and the MC2300 solid state amps, having a total of
around 28,000 watts. Not the intended use, but they held up....



http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100811

These Mcintosh MC3500 power amps have EIGHT power output tubes
6LQ6/6JE6B. These amps had an output of 350W. (mono).

The RCA TTU-1/TTU-25 UHF TV transmitters used 16 6146 tubes in
parallel for a video amp with a response from DC to over five MHz. It
was a 'Distributed Amplifier'.

Im not real familiar with transmitters, but I know that tube is used in
Ham transmitters and is similar to a 6L6 (or am I thinking 6LQ6?).

The 6L6 was seen in ham transmitters quite a bit.

But I think you're thinking of the 807 (and there was also the 1629, I
think I got that number right) which was similar, and there was a long
supply of them in the surplus market well after WWII.

The 807 and 1625 were very similar. The 807 had a 6.3 volt filiment
and the 1625 had a 12.6. They were cheap on the war suplus market after
WW2. Still plenty of then around up to atleast 1975 or so. Many home
built ham transmitters used them. They were also used in some high power
audio equipment.

Many of the commercial built transmitters of ham and public service
started using the 6146 series of tubes as they were not that expensive
and would go to about 200 MHz with no big problem.

When color TV sets started using the 6LQ6, 6JE6 and a few other sweep
tubes they were very inexpensive compaired to other power tubes and
could put out a lot of power for the cost in SSB usage that was
becomming popular on the ham bands.

During that time many ham transceivers put out about 100 watts and it
took a pair of the 6146 or 6xx6 series of tubes. As the TV sets started
going all solid state and the 6xx6 series quit being made in large
quanties the price started going up. About that time transistors that
could put out the same power were comming down and would work off 12
volts DC were comming down in price. That killed off the market for
those tubes in new equipment.

Now transistors and othe solid state devices that can handle 500 and
1000 watts at RF are comming out, it is starting to kill off the market
for tubes in that power range. Very few tubes are being made in the US
now,and lots of replacements for the older tubes are comming from
Russia, and China.

wrote:
On Sun, 26 Feb 2017 22:17:57 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

wrote:

Seriously, I have heard of using AM transmitter tubes for audio amps.
I don't know what those tubes are numbered, or how much power they output,
but I know that many AM radio stations have power output in the
thousands of watts range. But to use that kind of tube would require
custom output transformers that would likely mimic the pole transformers
used to feed our homes....


A pole pig would wave been useless, since they weren't designed to
pass DC, and they aren't center tapped on the primary. On top of that,
they would have a horrible frequency response, because they were
designed to operate at 60Hz.

Thats right, no center tap.... Back to the drawing board


A 25KW, plate modulated AM transmitter would produce 12.5 KW of
audio but you would have needed to a hundred amps of three phase 480VAC
to power it. Something I doubt that was available on that farm, or from
portable generators. You could move the modulator from a 5KW AM
transmitter, but the modulation transformer weighed over a ton. We had
to abandon one from a Gates transmitter that was bought from WQBQ for
spate parts. Sadly, it was only a couple years old, and one of the
premium replacements from Peter Dahl.

Too bad you abandoned that transformer. You should have rented a skid
loader or farm tractor with a loader. My 1959 farm tractor, which is
small compared to modern ones, lifts round bales of hay all the time.
They weight anywhere from 650 lbs to 1800 lbs. It struggles on those
1800 lb ones, but a larger tractor could easily handle a ton or more.
(I dont buy or make bales larger than 1500 lbs).


We would have needed a crane to remove it from the pad. The people I
moved it for were convinced that it had PCB based oil in it, even though
it was built after that was NLA. They paid me to move the transmitter
for another local station, for parts for the same model. They paid $150
for the old transmitter. That transformer was worth over $5,000, used.


And just for historic value, the original 1969 Woodstock concert ran
Somewhere between 3500 watts to 12,000 watts, using Mcintosh mi350
monoblock tube amps for their PA system. The article below seems to
conflict whether it was 3,500W or 12,000W.
Either way, that PA system had to cover a very large area, and
apparently it did the job.


Those Mcintosh amps were not designed for that type of service.

I thought that same thing, but they apparently can and did handle that
abuse, The Greatful Dead,"Wall of Sound". Was entirely run from
Mcintosh MC3500, Tube amps, and the MC2300 solid state amps, having a
total ofaround 28,000 watts. Not the intended use, but they held
up....

Not if they tried to run them at full output.


http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100811

These Mcintosh MC3500 power amps have EIGHT power output tubes
6LQ6/6JE6B. These amps had an output of 350W. (mono).

The RCA TTU-1/TTU-25 UHF TV transmitters used 16 6146 tubes in
parallel for a video amp with a response from DC to over five MHz. It
was a 'Distributed Amplifier'.

Im not real familiar with transmitters, but I know that tube is used in
Ham transmitters and is similar to a 6L6 (or am I thinking 6LQ6?).



The 6L6 was a metal cased audio tube that was a slightly higher
powered version of the 6V6.

http://www.r-type.org/pdfs/6l6.pdf
--
Never **** off an Engineer!

They don't get mad.

They don't get even.

They go for over unity! ;-)

wrote:

On Fri, 24 Feb 2017 16:11:20 -0600, Jon Elson wrote:


No, certainly not! You use the modulator from an old AM broadcast
transmitter. I was at a Grateful Dead concert in 1969 and they wheeled
out this THING on the stage with big glass globes, and when they lit up I
realized they were TUBES (valves to the British)! Not sure of the type,
but
at least several thousand Watts. I borrowed a set of ear muffs and sat
back for a show!

Jon

I was at several Grateful Dead concerts in the late 60's and afterwards.
I never saw any such thing. Are you sure you were not "tripping"? That
may have just been a common 6L6 tube in a guitar amp, and your
hallucinations made it look really BIG....

Nope, this was at the Fox Theater in St. Louis. Yes, there were certainly
some people tripping on various substances, but I was not. I can't prove it
was an AM broadcast modulator, but I can't imagine any other package that
would look like that and be available as a unit. There was even an article
in the local paper about that event, and how the band had all their
equipment confiscated for non-payment, and had to scramble for gear the day
of the show. I seem to recall Bob Heil came to the rescue and loaned them
this equipment.


Who ever heard of wearing earmuffs at a Grateful Dead concert.....

Only, me, I assure you! I protect my hearing, that's why I still have most
of it.
And since you mentioned it. What the hell is wrong with them British?
Valves are plumbing parts. Tubes are electronic parts!!!

yeah, they have funny names for EVERYTHING that was invented since 1776.
side curtains (side windows)
bonnet (hood)
accumulator (car battery)
boot (trunk)
gear change (gear shift)
and there are plenty more...

Seriously, I have heard of using AM transmitter tubes for audio amps. I
dont know what those tubes are numbered, or how much power they output,
but I know that many AM radio stations have power output in the
thousands of watts range. But to use that kind of tube would require
custom output transformers that would likely mimic the pole transformers
used to feed our homes....

Well, I'm no expert, but apparently the modulation transformer does a pretty
fair job of being an audio output transformer. I'm guessing there may be
some change to the output winding to lower the output impedance, or else you
just wire a bunch of speakers in series. And, don't ANYBODY touch that rig
while it is running, it could be lethal!

Jon

On Tue, 7 Mar 2017, Jon Elson wrote:

wrote:

On Fri, 24 Feb 2017 16:11:20 -0600, Jon Elson wrote:


No, certainly not! You use the modulator from an old AM broadcast
transmitter. I was at a Grateful Dead concert in 1969 and they wheeled
out this THING on the stage with big glass globes, and when they lit up I
realized they were TUBES (valves to the British)! Not sure of the type,
but
at least several thousand Watts. I borrowed a set of ear muffs and sat
back for a show!

Jon

I was at several Grateful Dead concerts in the late 60's and afterwards.
I never saw any such thing. Are you sure you were not "tripping"? That
may have just been a common 6L6 tube in a guitar amp, and your
hallucinations made it look really BIG....

Nope, this was at the Fox Theater in St. Louis. Yes, there were certainly
some people tripping on various substances, but I was not. I can't prove it
was an AM broadcast modulator, but I can't imagine any other package that
would look like that and be available as a unit. There was even an article
in the local paper about that event, and how the band had all their
equipment confiscated for non-payment, and had to scramble for gear the day
of the show. I seem to recall Bob Heil came to the rescue and loaned them
this equipment.

THere is an incident like that. SOmething happened to the equipment, I
can't remember what, but since Bob Heil was local, he fixed things up for
them. Maybe that's the time with the Electrovoice VOice of the Theatre
speaker I think I mentioned. I've definitely read this story somewhere,
and I think it was how he got connected to the band.

Michael

On Tue, 07 Mar 2017 18:01:40 -0600, Jon Elson wrote:

And since you mentioned it. What the hell is wrong with them British?
Valves are plumbing parts. Tubes are electronic parts!!!

yeah, they have funny names for EVERYTHING that was invented since 1776.
side curtains (side windows)
bonnet (hood)
accumulator (car battery)
boot (trunk)
gear change (gear shift)
and there are plenty more...

This one gets me.

What we call a Horse Trailer, (or livestock trailer), they call them a
FLOAT. That's just plain weird....

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 07 Mar 2017 18:01:40 -0600, Jon Elson wrote:

And since you mentioned it. What the hell is wrong with them British?
Valves are plumbing parts. Tubes are electronic parts!!!

yeah, they have funny names for EVERYTHING that was invented since 1776.
side curtains (side windows)
bonnet (hood)
accumulator (car battery)
boot (trunk)
gear change (gear shift)
and there are plenty more...

This one gets me.

What we call a Horse Trailer, (or livestock trailer), they call them a
FLOAT. That's just plain weird....

At work there was an engineer from England. He wanted a torch in an
area that was hard to get to. Two mechanics spent about an hour
dragging an acelene and oxygen torch to the area. He asked what that
was for and they said it was what he wanted. Found out he really
wanted a flashlight. That is called a torch where he came from.