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Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems. |
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#1
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How long does it take a microwave oven to warm up?
How long does it take a microwave oven to warm up?
I often cook things that take maybe 7 or 8 seconds. Maybe if they're really small they take 5 but it's hard to know in advance and I really dislike most overcooked things. Undercooked, one can just cook it some more but is two 5-second zappings the same as one 10-second zap? Or does it take a second (or 2 or 3 or more) to get the waves churning, so two 5-seconds is more like 9 seconds (or 8 or 6)? I need to know so that eventually I'll know the proper time for a particular food, without stopping and checking**. Has anyone read about this? Or other oscillators? **This actually raises another question. I'm pretty darn good at predicting how much time I need to microwave something, and once in a while I can even remember from experience. (Cocoa from refrigerated milk is 2 minutes. An eggroll of a given size is 2 minutes 40 seconds, even though wrapper says 4 minutes.) But what if part of something much bigger than 10-second food is cooked enough and I take it to the table and start eating and when I get to another part, find that it is not cooked enough. By this time all of it has cooled some. In that case, it's not the microwave warm-up time that would matter, but am I right that there is still food warm-up time? If the food is 70^, it might not even start cooking until the part that cooks reaches, what, let's assume 110. (Or maybe someone has a real number for a given food) So if one is eating for 15 minutes, the 120 degree food will have cooled off to 80 degrees, and if I put it back in, it still has to get back up to 110 again, before it even starts cooking again, is that right? That could take 20 or 30 seconds or more, depending on how much food there is and other details. I dont' mind the extra time, but I would like it if someone could provide real-life numbers so I could better estimate how long the 2nd part of the cooking will take. |
#2
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How long does it take a microwave oven to warm up?
micky explained on 11/30/2016 :
How long does it take a microwave oven to warm up? The energy transfer is nearly immediate. The oven only warms up because of the food warming up. Some items which I microwave would end up having cold or cool spots, so I used to cook say a three minute item by cooking for two minutes and then allowing the heat to spread for a couple of minutes, and then zap for another minute or so. I now have a new microwave oven with a turntable (the other had a reflector) to help avoid the spottiness. The ovens power output is also an important factor to consider. |
#3
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How long does it take a microwave oven to warm up?
When you get down to thing that only take a few seconds, the fact that it takes about two seconds for the magnetron filament to warm comes into play.
Usually you can hear the fan slow down once the microwaves are really being produced. |
#4
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How long does it take a microwave oven to warm up?
micky wrote:
How long does it take a microwave oven to warm up? The heater in the magnetron tube takes a couple seconds to warm to the point where it will emit electrons. You can hear it easily on the old transformer microwaves, the fan starts and it begins to hum, then a couple seconds later the hum gets much louder. That louder hum is when the magnetron tube starts conducting. Newer microwaves with switching power supplies may delay turning on the HV until the heater has warmed up, and they may not have that transformer hum, so it may be harder to tell when the RF comes on. Jon |
#5
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How long does it take a microwave oven to warm up?
On 11/30/2016 5:45 PM, FromTheRafters wrote:
micky explained on 11/30/2016 : How long does it take a microwave oven to warm up? The energy transfer is nearly immediate. The oven only warms up because of the food warming up. Some items which I microwave would end up having cold or cool spots, so I used to cook say a three minute item by cooking for two minutes and then allowing the heat to spread for a couple of minutes, and then zap for another minute or so. I now have a new microwave oven with a turntable (the other had a reflector) to help avoid the spottiness. The ovens power output is also an important factor to consider. I find it easier to microwave for longer periods of time at a lower setting to get even heat. |
#6
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How long does it take a microwave oven to warm up?
On Wednesday, November 30, 2016 at 3:41:20 PM UTC-8, Frank wrote:
On 11/30/2016 5:45 PM, FromTheRafters wrote: micky explained on 11/30/2016 : How long does it take a microwave oven to warm up? I now have a new microwave oven with a turntable (the other had a reflector) to help avoid the spottiness. The ovens power output is also an important factor to consider. I find it easier to microwave for longer periods of time at a lower setting to get even heat. It takes a few seconds to heat the filament of the vacuum tube. So, it's advisable to use longer times, but NOT lower setting (which just adds multiple ON/OFF switching to the problem). To get something a 5 second zap, you might be well advised to put a cup of water in next to your nibble, and give the pair ten seconds. The water load will slow the nibble heating, and the longer time means the turnon variability is less important. It also gives your turntable a chance to do a full revolution under full magntron power (better hotspot control) |
#7
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How long does it take a microwave oven to warm up?
"Jon Elson" wrote in message ... micky wrote: How long does it take a microwave oven to warm up? The heater in the magnetron tube takes a couple seconds to warm to the point where it will emit electrons. You can hear it easily on the old transformer microwaves, the fan starts and it begins to hum, then a couple seconds later the hum gets much louder. That louder hum is when the magnetron tube starts conducting. Newer microwaves with switching power supplies may delay turning on the HV until the heater has warmed up, and they may not have that transformer hum, so it may be harder to tell when the RF comes on. Jon Stick an old CD in the MW and you can see exactly when the RF power starts. |
#8
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How long does it take a microwave oven to warm up?
Frank formulated the question :
On 11/30/2016 5:45 PM, FromTheRafters wrote: micky explained on 11/30/2016 : How long does it take a microwave oven to warm up? The energy transfer is nearly immediate. The oven only warms up because of the food warming up. Some items which I microwave would end up having cold or cool spots, so I used to cook say a three minute item by cooking for two minutes and then allowing the heat to spread for a couple of minutes, and then zap for another minute or so. I now have a new microwave oven with a turntable (the other had a reflector) to help avoid the spottiness. The ovens power output is also an important factor to consider. I find it easier to microwave for longer periods of time at a lower setting to get even heat. Yes, the new MW oven has programmable settings for power level and rest periods and such for better results. The old one only had a single knob with minute marks on it and a bell that softly, almost inaudibly, went 'click' when the time expired. The old one is 26 years old, but it still works. |
#9
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How long does it take a microwave oven to warm up?
"I find it easier to microwave for longer periods of time at a lower
setting to get even heat. " Yeah but they generally only turn it on and off. The duty cycle controls the power level. I have only see one microwave in my life that actually had separate taps on the transformer for lower power. |
#10
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How long does it take a microwave oven to warm up?
"Stick an old CD in the MW and you can see exactly when the RF power starts. "
Really. Never thought of that. |
#11
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How long does it take a microwave oven to warm up?
On Wed, 30 Nov 2016 17:16:05 -0600, Jon Elson wrote:
The heater in the magnetron tube takes a couple seconds to warm to the point where it will emit electrons. You can hear it easily on the old transformer microwaves, the fan starts and it begins to hum, then a couple seconds later the hum gets much louder. That louder hum is when the magnetron tube starts conducting. Newer microwaves with switching power supplies may delay turning on the HV until the heater has warmed up, and they may not have that transformer hum, so it may be harder to tell when the RF comes on. +1, You are the only one who did not lambast the OP for using the term 'warm up' to mean 'cause the ambient MW intensity to reach its operational range'. When I am judging time for extremely small loads (like softening butter without liquifying it), I allow 4 seconds for my oven. I find that the hum does not get louder though. Instead, I notice that the fan speed lowers a bit, presumably because the supply voltage for the fan is then being loaded down by the power consumption by the magnetron. |
#12
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How long does it take a microwave oven to warm up?
In sci.electronics.repair, on Wed, 30 Nov 2016 19:33:00 -0500,
FromTheRafters wrote: Frank formulated the question : On 11/30/2016 5:45 PM, FromTheRafters wrote: micky explained on 11/30/2016 : How long does it take a microwave oven to warm up? The energy transfer is nearly immediate. The oven only warms up because of the food warming up. Some items which I microwave would end up having cold or cool spots, so I used to cook say a three minute item by cooking for two minutes and then allowing the heat to spread for a couple of minutes, and then zap for another minute or so. I now have a new microwave oven with a turntable (the other had a reflector) to help avoid the spottiness. The ovens power output is also an important factor to consider. I find it easier to microwave for longer periods of time at a lower setting to get even heat. Yes, the new MW oven has programmable settings for power level and rest periods and such for better results. The old one only had a single knob with minute marks on it and a bell that softly, almost inaudibly, went 'click' when the time expired. The old one is 26 years old, but it still works. I had an Amana Model 2, that looked just like the drawings of microwaves that were used for decades. It lasted many years. I got it used around 1975 and met its earthly demise around 2000. . Although the insulation on the diodes had failed** and it sparked, so I covered the open parts with GE silicon sealant, and something else I fixed, and eventually the power transformer broke, I think it was. They wanted 300 dollars for it and my pointing out that they should take 80 since I coudl buy a new one for 80 didn't help. They lowered the price to the repairmans price of 200 roughly. **Amanda didn't want to send me a schematic. I had to beg, and promise I knew what I was doing and wouldn't kill myself. She relented. |
#13
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How long does it take a microwave oven to warm up?
In sci.electronics.repair, on Wed, 30 Nov 2016 18:57:51 -0500, "tom"
wrote: "Jon Elson" wrote in message ... micky wrote: How long does it take a microwave oven to warm up? The heater in the magnetron tube takes a couple seconds to warm to the point where it will emit electrons. You can hear it easily on the old transformer microwaves, the fan starts and it begins to hum, then a couple seconds later the hum gets much louder. That louder hum is when the magnetron tube starts conducting. Newer microwaves with switching power supplies may delay turning on the HV until the heater has warmed up, and they may not have that transformer hum, so it may be harder to tell when the RF comes on. I'll go with "a couple". Thanks. Jon Stick an old CD in the MW and you can see exactly when the RF power starts. That sounds like it might work |
#14
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How long does it take a microwave oven to warm up?
In sci.electronics.repair, on Wed, 30 Nov 2016 15:09:58 -0800 (PST),
wrote: When you get down to thing that only take a few seconds, the fact that it takes about two seconds for the magnetron filament to warm comes into play. Sure. That's what I had in mind. Usually you can hear the fan slow down once the microwaves are really being produced. I'll pay more attention. Thanks and thanks all. |
#15
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How long does it take a microwave oven to warm up?
On Wed, 30 Nov 2016 18:57:51 -0500, "tom"
wrote: Stick an old CD in the MW and you can see exactly when the RF power starts. Good idea. Another way would be to cram a wad of paper between the door and the oven, and use a microwave leakage detector to measure the resultant leakage. It there's a slow rise in output, you'll see it on the meter, which you won't see on the CD. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#16
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How long does it take a microwave oven to warm up?
Micky,
Heating improves the physical "eatability" of products and also beats the crap out of bacteria. If you cook for under the prescribed time to suit your tastes then you need to understand about the bacteria.. Don't poison yourself. Sorry, can't help you with cooking times. Dave M. |
#17
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How long does it take a microwave oven to warm up?
On Wednesday, November 30, 2016 at 5:23:50 PM UTC-5, micky wrote:
How long does it take a microwave oven to warm up? YIKES!! This is a single question with two separate answers. a) Less than 4 seconds for the magnetron tube to reach full output. There will be a sequence as others have noted: Fan-Start, relay click, magnetron start. b) Then, it depends. We have a 1,100 watt Panasonic that is very fast-cooking to the point that we are very careful of the setting as even 10 seconds makes a difference. A 500-watt device will provide an entirely different experience. So, it is a combination of the onset time and the actual power of your microwave that will give you the answer. But what is obvious is that 2 @ 5 seconds is NOT 1 @ 10 seconds. The reality is that a 5-second setting will give ~1~2 seconds of actual full-output heat. 10 seconds will give ~6~9 seconds.. Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA |
#18
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How long does it take a microwave oven to warm up?
On 11/30/2016 4:23 PM, micky wrote:
An eggroll of a given size is 2 minutes 40 seconds, even though wrapper says 4 minutes.) Pan fry your egg rolls, roll so four sides get crispy. Microwaved egg rolls just aren't worth eating. IMHO Mikek |
#19
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How long does it take a microwave oven to warm up?
On 11/30/2016 04:23 PM, micky wrote:
[snip] **This actually raises another question. I'm pretty darn good at predicting how much time I need to microwave something, and once in a while I can even remember from experience. (Cocoa from refrigerated milk is 2 minutes. An eggroll of a given size is 2 minutes 40 seconds, even though wrapper says 4 minutes.) I have an older microwave, that has only 700W. Most directions are for higher power. I find most things are OK if I add 25% to the cooking time. For example, if it says 3 minutes I use 3:45. BTW, some people have said that if I got a new microwave, it would probably fail before the old one. [snip] -- 24 days until the winter celebration (Sunday December 25, 2016 12:00:00 AM for 1 day). Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.us/ "If fascism ever comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." -- Upton Sinclair, Huey P. Long, and others. |
#20
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How long does it take a microwave oven to warm up?
On 11/30/2016 06:33 PM, FromTheRafters wrote:
[snip] The old one is 26 years old, but it still works. I have a 30 year old JCPenney microwave (from the time they sold a lot of things rather than just clothes and related stuff). -- 24 days until the winter celebration (Sunday December 25, 2016 12:00:00 AM for 1 day). Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.us/ "If fascism ever comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." -- Upton Sinclair, Huey P. Long, and others. |
#21
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How long does it take a microwave oven to warm up?
On 12/01/2016 09:15 AM, amdx wrote:
On 11/30/2016 4:23 PM, micky wrote: An eggroll of a given size is 2 minutes 40 seconds, even though wrapper says 4 minutes.) Pan fry your egg rolls, roll so four sides get crispy. Microwaved egg rolls just aren't worth eating. IMHO Mikek Mostly I use the microwave for heating already-cooked food. One exception is bacon. -- 24 days until the winter celebration (Sunday December 25, 2016 12:00:00 AM for 1 day). Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.us/ "If fascism ever comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." -- Upton Sinclair, Huey P. Long, and others. |
#22
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How long does it take a microwave oven to warm up?
On 12/1/2016 11:35 AM, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 11/30/2016 04:23 PM, micky wrote: [snip] **This actually raises another question. I'm pretty darn good at predicting how much time I need to microwave something, and once in a while I can even remember from experience. (Cocoa from refrigerated milk is 2 minutes. An eggroll of a given size is 2 minutes 40 seconds, even though wrapper says 4 minutes.) I have an older microwave, that has only 700W. Most directions are for higher power. I find most things are OK if I add 25% to the cooking time. For example, if it says 3 minutes I use 3:45. BTW, some people have said that if I got a new microwave, it would probably fail before the old one. Maybe, we have one that was manufactured in 1983, still works fine, but we have two, and this one is not used as much. Mikek |
#23
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How long does it take a microwave oven to warm up?
In sci.electronics.repair, on Wed, 30 Nov 2016 23:20:17 -0500, Mike
Duffy wrote: On Wed, 30 Nov 2016 17:16:05 -0600, Jon Elson wrote: The heater in the magnetron tube takes a couple seconds to warm to the point where it will emit electrons. You can hear it easily on the old transformer microwaves, the fan starts and it begins to hum, then a couple seconds later the hum gets much louder. That louder hum is when the magnetron tube starts conducting. Newer microwaves with switching power supplies may delay turning on the HV until the heater has warmed up, and they may not have that transformer hum, so it may be harder to tell when the RF comes on. +1, You are the only one who did not lambast the OP for using the term 'warm up' to mean 'cause the ambient MW intensity to reach its operational range'. Just for the record, I consciously used the phrase, because it reminds me of simpler times, harmed only by the extra time it took to turn on the radio or tv. (In the movies, sometimes they would turn something on and it woudl start immediately. I did stay at a hotel once 8 years ago that was also operating in the 30's and it still had the remote speaker/channel selector for the central radio it used then. Each room had one and the patron could swtich between two or three stations, and adjust the volume, so when you turned it on, it went on immediately. Unfortunately, the hotel finally closed.) When I am judging time for extremely small loads (like softening butter without liquifying it), I allow 4 seconds for my oven. I'm pretty sure mine is less tnan 4 seconds becuase I really have used 7 seconds and found noticeable heating, more than I think 3 seconds would have done, based on the prior 10 seconds. BTW, if you get one of those slabs of chocolate chip cookies, precut, they say to cook them in a hot oven of course, but 37 seconds per square does a good job. Not like baked, but like a differen4 recipe. Another reason to know the startup time is if I make two of them, it only has to start-up once, so it needs less than twice the time, but the instructions already say less than twice the time, and their differential is greater than 4 seconds. I think there is some reason for that other than start-up, warm-up time. I find that the hum does not get louder though. Instead, I notice that the fan speed lowers a bit, presumably because the supply voltage for the fan is then being loaded down by the power consumption by the magnetron. |
#24
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How long does it take a microwave oven to warm up?
FromTheRafters posted for all of us...
The ovens power output is also an important factor to consider. Get a Binford 6150 MMMMM More power. -- Tekkie |
#25
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How long does it take a microwave oven to warm up?
On 11/30/2016 03:16 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
micky wrote: How long does it take a microwave oven to warm up? The heater in the magnetron tube takes a couple seconds to warm to the point where it will emit electrons. You can hear it easily on the old transformer microwaves, the fan starts and it begins to hum, then a couple seconds later the hum gets much louder. That louder hum is when the magnetron tube starts conducting. Newer microwaves with switching power supplies may delay turning on the HV until the heater has warmed up, and they may not have that transformer hum, so it may be harder to tell when the RF comes on. Jon Heh, you could put a flashbulb in there, no missing that indicator...one of the "urban legends" of the day, when I was working on military radar systems was that you could take out all the flashbulbs in the base exchange store if you forgot to blank the output as it rotated by that direction...no idea if it's true or not, but 5MW could fry most anything if you wanted to bad enough. |
#26
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How long does it take a microwave oven to warm up?
In sci.electronics.repair, on Fri, 2 Dec 2016 20:25:14 -0800, Bill
Martin wrote: On 11/30/2016 03:16 PM, Jon Elson wrote: micky wrote: How long does it take a microwave oven to warm up? The heater in the magnetron tube takes a couple seconds to warm to the point where it will emit electrons. You can hear it easily on the old transformer microwaves, the fan starts and it begins to hum, then a couple seconds later the hum gets much louder. That louder hum is when the magnetron tube starts conducting. Newer microwaves with switching power supplies may delay turning on the HV until the heater has warmed up, and they may not have that transformer hum, so it may be harder to tell when the RF comes on. Jon Heh, you could put a flashbulb in there, no missing that indicator...one of the "urban legends" of the day, when I was working on military radar systems was that you could take out all the flashbulbs in the base exchange store if you forgot to blank the output as it rotated by that direction...no idea if it's true or not, but 5MW could fry most anything if you wanted to bad enough. 30 years ago I saved a couple flashbulbs for the expected shortage, but I don't know where they are now. |
#27
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How long does it take a microwave oven to warm up?
In sci.electronics.repair, on Thu, 1 Dec 2016 09:15:49 -0600, amdx
wrote: On 11/30/2016 4:23 PM, micky wrote: An eggroll of a given size is 2 minutes 40 seconds, even though wrapper says 4 minutes.) Pan fry your egg rolls, roll so four sides get crispy. I may take your suggestion if I can find the pan. If I can find the oil. Microwaved egg rolls just aren't worth eating. IMHO Mikek It's a different taste sensation. Next I should try them with chocolate syrup! |
#28
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How long does it take a microwave oven to warm up?
On Wednesday, November 30, 2016 at 6:57:50 PM UTC-5, tom wrote:
"Jon Elson" wrote in message ... micky wrote: How long does it take a microwave oven to warm up? The heater in the magnetron tube takes a couple seconds to warm to the point where it will emit electrons. You can hear it easily on the old transformer microwaves, the fan starts and it begins to hum, then a couple seconds later the hum gets much louder. That louder hum is when the magnetron tube starts conducting. Newer microwaves with switching power supplies may delay turning on the HV until the heater has warmed up, and they may not have that transformer hum, so it may be harder to tell when the RF comes on. Jon Stick an old CD in the MW and you can see exactly when the RF power starts. I tried that with one of my wife's Kenny G CDs. A few seconds in the MW improved it immensely. |
#29
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How long does it take a microwave oven to warm up?
In sci.electronics.repair, on Wed, 30 Nov 2016 23:25:52 -0800, Jeff
Liebermann wrote: On Wed, 30 Nov 2016 18:57:51 -0500, "tom" wrote: Stick an old CD in the MW and you can see exactly when the RF power starts. Good idea. Another way would be to cram a wad of paper between the door and the oven, and use a microwave leakage detector to measure the You can really do that? I did do that with Amana model 2, that had no door latches, only springs. To check if the microwave detector was working, and it was. And to check if the oven was leaking and it wasn't. BTW, Radio Shack stopped selling its cheap detector years ago. I suppose it was sold by someone else but I haven't seen it. resultant leakage. It there's a slow rise in output, you'll see it on the meter, which you won't see on the CD. |
#30
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How long does it take a microwave oven to warm up?
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#31
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How long does it take a microwave oven to warm up?
In sci.electronics.repair, on Fri, 2 Dec 2016 16:22:34 -0500, Tekkie®
wrote: FromTheRafters posted for all of us... The ovens power output is also an important factor to consider. Get a Binford 6150 MMMMM More power. All my power tools are Binford. |
#32
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How long does it take a microwave oven to warm up?
On Sat, 03 Dec 2016 16:11:12 -0500, micky
wrote: In sci.electronics.repair, on Wed, 30 Nov 2016 23:25:52 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Wed, 30 Nov 2016 18:57:51 -0500, "tom" wrote: Stick an old CD in the MW and you can see exactly when the RF power starts. Good idea. Another way would be to cram a wad of paper between the door and the oven, and use a microwave leakage detector to measure the resultant leakage. It there's a slow rise in output, you'll see it on the meter, which you won't see on the CD. You can really do that? I did do that with Amana model 2, that had no door latches, only springs. To check if the microwave detector was working, and it was. And to check if the oven was leaking and it wasn't. Yep, although the choke joint does a good job of blocking RF even with a gap. I just crammed a few layers of paper into the door of my Panasonic Sensor 1300U microwave oven. For a leakage detector, I used an MD-2000 detector. https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=md-2000+microwave and a Micronta (Radio Shock) 22-2001: http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/radio_shac_micronta_microwave_leaka.html With about 1/32" wad of paper, and with me shoving my weight against the door hold it closed, I got about a 5mw/cm^2 indication. There was also a cup of water inside the oven. The first time I ran it, it too about 5 seconds for the power to level off. Repeated tests took less, down to about 2 seconds. Note that the Panasonic oven uses "inverter technology" which might have different characteristics than a conventional microwave oven: http://www.sears.com/articles/appliances/microwaves/what-is-inverter-technology.html The Micronta 22-2001 meter isn't calibrated, but I assume that mid-scale is 5mw/cm^2, which is considered the danger level. I had to play with the orientation for maximum indication, but it read about 2/3 of way up the green part of the scale, and did not go into the red. Timing was about the same as the MD-2000 at about 3-5 seconds to reach full power. The first time I did the wad of paper in the door test was many years ago on a different microwave oven. The reading was much higher and the door had a machanical latch. How much higher, I don't recall. There are plenty of more modern leakage detectors available. https://www.google.com/search?q=microwave+oven+leakage+meter&tbm=isch I suspect I could get some RF to leak out of the oven by taking a length of coaxial cable, strip off 1/4 wavelength (31.3mm) from both ends, stuff one end in the oven, and measure whatever is re-radiated from the other end. BTW, Radio Shack stopped selling its cheap detector years ago. I suppose it was sold by someone else but I haven't seen it. No loss. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
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