Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems.

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  #1   Report Post  
Accidents HAPPEN
 
Posts: n/a
Default I dropped the tv ( Sony circa December 1985)

It fell face down from about 2 feet off the floor. No pieces fell off
of it but now the picture's lower left hand corner is Red-ish and the
right hand corner is Green-ish. Fiddling with the buttons hasnt helped
change this situation. I would love to fix this. Advice would be
appreciated.

I dropped it when I was sliding it around the NEW tv cart I got for it
because I figured a sturdy cart was cheaper than getting a newer,
lightweight tv. Now I have to wait for someone to come home to grab the
other side's HANDLE so we can lift this back on the cart.
  #2   Report Post  
john
 
Posts: n/a
Default I dropped the tv ( Sony circa December 1985)

CRT is now No Good go buy a new set.

kip

--
"Watch the return E-Mail addy its false"
"Accidents HAPPEN" wrote in message
...
It fell face down from about 2 feet off the floor. No pieces fell off
of it but now the picture's lower left hand corner is Red-ish and the
right hand corner is Green-ish. Fiddling with the buttons hasnt helped
change this situation. I would love to fix this. Advice would be
appreciated.

I dropped it when I was sliding it around the NEW tv cart I got for it
because I figured a sturdy cart was cheaper than getting a newer,
lightweight tv. Now I have to wait for someone to come home to grab the
other side's HANDLE so we can lift this back on the cart.



  #3   Report Post  
Accidents HAPPEN
 
Posts: n/a
Default TRINITRON KV-2781R I dropped the tv ( Sony circa December 1985)

Accidents HAPPEN wrote:

It fell face down from about 2 feet off the floor. No pieces fell off
of it but now the picture's lower left hand corner is Red-ish and the
right hand corner is Green-ish. Fiddling with the buttons hasnt helped
change this situation. I would love to fix this. Advice would be
appreciated.

I dropped it when I was sliding it around the NEW tv cart I got for it
because I figured a sturdy cart was cheaper than getting a newer,
lightweight tv. Now I have to wait for someone to come home to grab the
other side's HANDLE so we can lift this back on the cart.

  #4   Report Post  
Ricky Eck
 
Posts: n/a
Default I dropped the tv ( Sony circa December 1985)

Humm, just shooting out an idea, see if it may work. Maybe if they took it
to a shop, and have them shoot the Tube?
Rick

"john" wrote in message
.. .
CRT is now No Good go buy a new set.

kip

--
"Watch the return E-Mail addy its false"
"Accidents HAPPEN" wrote in message
...
It fell face down from about 2 feet off the floor. No pieces fell off
of it but now the picture's lower left hand corner is Red-ish and the
right hand corner is Green-ish. Fiddling with the buttons hasnt helped
change this situation. I would love to fix this. Advice would be
appreciated.

I dropped it when I was sliding it around the NEW tv cart I got for it
because I figured a sturdy cart was cheaper than getting a newer,
lightweight tv. Now I have to wait for someone to come home to grab the
other side's HANDLE so we can lift this back on the cart.





  #5   Report Post  
Accidents HAPPEN
 
Posts: n/a
Default I dropped the tv ( Sony circa December 1985)

Ricky Eck wrote:

Humm, just shooting out an idea, see if it may work. Maybe if they took it
to a shop, and have them shoot the Tube?
Rick



Thanks. What would be a fair price for that type of work? I'm in NYC
where everyone seems to have the latest models.

"john" wrote in message
.. .

CRT is now No Good go buy a new set.

kip

--
"Watch the return E-Mail addy its false"
"Accidents HAPPEN" wrote in message
.. .

It fell face down from about 2 feet off the floor. No pieces fell off
of it but now the picture's lower left hand corner is Red-ish and the
right hand corner is Green-ish. Fiddling with the buttons hasnt helped
change this situation. I would love to fix this. Advice would be
appreciated.

I dropped it when I was sliding it around the NEW tv cart I got for it
because I figured a sturdy cart was cheaper than getting a newer,
lightweight tv. Now I have to wait for someone to come home to grab the
other side's HANDLE so we can lift this back on the cart.







  #6   Report Post  
LASERandDVDfan
 
Posts: n/a
Default I dropped the tv ( Sony circa December 1985)

It fell face down from about 2 feet off the floor. No pieces fell off
of it but now the picture's lower left hand corner is Red-ish and the
right hand corner is Green-ish. Fiddling with the buttons hasnt helped
change this situation.


Try using a degaussing coil, since you really don't have anything to lose.

Unfortunately, it is most likely that the internal components of the picture
tube have been shifted from the shock of the drop.

This means that the tube is internally damaged and the only way to repair this
problem is to replace the picture tube.

DO NOT continue use of this set! This kind of picture tube damage presents a
potentially serious implosion hazard as the internal structure of the picture
tube is compromised, thus it's ability to resist implosion may also be
affected.

Replacing the picture tube is not going to be practical and it certainly isn't
going to be cheap. Your TV set is very old so replacement tubes may no longer
be available. Even if they were, it would not be worth the effort and money
given the age of the TV set. Replacement tubes are expensive as well as the
labor to install the tube and recalibrate the set. There may be many other
components in the TV that could have drifted out of tolerance so much that the
set could develop another problem after the new picture tube installation.

Repeating the recommendation of another poster here, I think it's time to
consider buying a new television.

IMO, Sony is still an excellent choice, if not one of the very best choices. -
Reinhart
  #7   Report Post  
Ricky Eck
 
Posts: n/a
Default I dropped the tv ( Sony circa December 1985)

To be honest with you, I don't know. It has been many years since I worked
in a TV shop. And even shooting the tube does not guarantee that it is
going to work. Kinda a last shot before disposing the TV, or replacing the
tube. But one of the other guys on here, may be able to give you an
estimate, and if it even can be done....
Hope that helps,
Rick

"Accidents HAPPEN" wrote in message
...
Ricky Eck wrote:

Humm, just shooting out an idea, see if it may work. Maybe if they took

it
to a shop, and have them shoot the Tube?
Rick



Thanks. What would be a fair price for that type of work? I'm in NYC
where everyone seems to have the latest models.

"john" wrote in message
.. .

CRT is now No Good go buy a new set.

kip

--
"Watch the return E-Mail addy its false"
"Accidents HAPPEN" wrote in message
.. .

It fell face down from about 2 feet off the floor. No pieces fell off
of it but now the picture's lower left hand corner is Red-ish and the
right hand corner is Green-ish. Fiddling with the buttons hasnt helped
change this situation. I would love to fix this. Advice would be
appreciated.

I dropped it when I was sliding it around the NEW tv cart I got for it
because I figured a sturdy cart was cheaper than getting a newer,
lightweight tv. Now I have to wait for someone to come home to grab

the
other side's HANDLE so we can lift this back on the cart.






  #8   Report Post  
RonKZ650
 
Posts: n/a
Default I dropped the tv ( Sony circa December 1985)

You can still use the set if you don't mind the corner discoloration. If the
glass didn't implode when it hit the floor, it sure isn't going to happen by
simply watching TV. Shooting will not help this problem. If the discoloration
is minor a reputable shop can add correction magnets to the back of the tube.
Chances are slim though. You're tube is damaged.
Ron
  #9   Report Post  
Ricky Eck
 
Posts: n/a
Default I dropped the tv ( Sony circa December 1985)

Try using a degaussing coil, since you really don't have anything to lose.

Reinhart


I was thinking of this also, but I couldn't remember how to spell it, so I
was hoping someone would bring it up.. LOL

Rick


  #10   Report Post  
Jason D.
 
Posts: n/a
Default I dropped the tv ( Sony circa December 1985)

On Sat, 15 May 2004 18:00:20 -0400, "john"
wrote:

CRT is now No Good go buy a new set.

kip


Hmm.

Next time consider this as warning for others NOT to drop any stuff or
put tvs in a way it wants to fall.

New regular tubes and canadian $:
20" is about 250ish.
27" tubes is about 300+ to 500
32" is 1,400

Flat ones bit high even higher.

But once in awhile customer is lucky that only broken was cracked
traces with good tube.

And that's not customer's prices btw!

By the way have a care. Not from Sears espcially Sonys! I wondered
if Sony had cut corners on those just for Sear's deal also only 1 year
warranty. We had that and didn't last long, 3 yr for 800 bux 27" it
was tube. That cheap 19" goldstar had Sony beat, 6 year before had
to get it fixed. That's GOOD.

Cheers,

Wizard

--
"Watch the return E-Mail addy its false"
"Accidents HAPPEN" wrote in message
. ..
It fell face down from about 2 feet off the floor. No pieces fell off
of it but now the picture's lower left hand corner is Red-ish and the
right hand corner is Green-ish. Fiddling with the buttons hasnt helped
change this situation. I would love to fix this. Advice would be
appreciated.

I dropped it when I was sliding it around the NEW tv cart I got for it
because I figured a sturdy cart was cheaper than getting a newer,
lightweight tv. Now I have to wait for someone to come home to grab the
other side's HANDLE so we can lift this back on the cart.






  #11   Report Post  
LASERandDVDfan
 
Posts: n/a
Default I dropped the tv ( Sony circa December 1985)

I think you can forget about any possibility of a repair being
succesful. Sony shadowmask tubes are particularly susceptible to
damage after being dropped.


Sony Trinitron picture tubes do not employ a shadow mask. They employ an
aperture grille. There's a substantially big difference between the two.

See this account from a customer who had his Sony TV damaged during a
furniture removal.
http://www.epinions.com/content_109848792708


How convenient in that you disregard various details in the story which tells
us more about what happened and ultimately puts the credibility of your claim
into question. You didn't even properly specify what was going on which led to
the damage. This wasn't a mere furniture removal. This was a transcontinental
move from California to North Carolina. That's literally a move from the west
coast to the east coast of the United States! That's one hell of a furniture
removal!

First off, most moving companies, such as Mayflower or Bekins, have a notorious
reputation of destroying items during transit.

Secondly, the story reveals certain details about how the TV was damaged. Upon
examination by a certified Sony repair professional, the TV set yielded
substantial physical evidence of mishandling. A small crack on the casing of
the TV and a severely damaged mainboard both suggest that the set suffered a
substantial impact, likely due to mishandling. Those details that you did not
note were present in the Epinions review.

The Epinions article you've presented doesn't support your claim against Sony
TV sets. All the article does is suggest that a TV set can be severely damaged
by careless movers. Any other brand of TV would have yielded similar problems
had they been mishandled in the same fashion. If there was a drop substantial
enough to damage the mainboard and crack the casing, it's likely that the tube
will have been damaged as well. - Reinhart
  #12   Report Post  
LASERandDVDfan
 
Posts: n/a
Default I dropped the tv ( Sony circa December 1985)

Listen up, don't be a nit picker...

Specifying very significant details that you either ignored or didn't factor is
not nit-picking.

Reading your post establishes the idea that Sony TV sets are not durable.
Posting a hyperlink to an Epinions article with a very vague description of
what the post was about tends to strengthen the impression you are trying to
create with your wrtiting.

However, when someone with any sense with electronics repair reads the article,
they'll find the particular scenario from that story would cause damage to ANY
TV set.

The point of that story is simply that after
mishandling by (in this case transporting) the sony tv had sustained
some damage to the picture tube which could only be repaired by a tube
replacement at great expense.


But what degree was the mishandling taken to? Apparently, according to the
Epinions article, a lot.

The story also describes that the mainboard had to be replaced by the
technician just to get the set to turn on in the first place.

If a drop was enough to destroy the original mainboard, then it may also be
enough to shift the innards of a picture tube. The larger the tube, the more
susceptible it is to this kind of damage. I don't care if it's a Sony, a
Toshiba, a Panasonic, or a Loewe. If a drop damages the mainboard to the
extent that it won't work anymore, then it's likely that the tube could be
trashed as well.

I stand by my arguments and feel that your claims are in error by bad example.
- Reinhart
  #13   Report Post  
LASERandDVDfan
 
Posts: n/a
Default I dropped the tv ( Sony circa December 1985)

As I said I could have spent time cutting and pasting only the
relevant parts and if you were not intelligent enough to compare the
fact that the OP "dropped his Sony TV some 2 feet" and the Epinions
article that considerable damage resulting in the need to replace the
picture tube due to mishandling, then I can't help you.


Quotes taken verbatim from the Epinions article:

Before the packing:

"On the day of the move, Excels packing team came to my house in Union City,
CA to wrap and box nearly everything in the house. While they worked, my
daughter was watching a show on our 36€? Sony flat-panel TV, which was hooked
up to our home theater system. When it came time to prepare the TV for moving,
they directed us to unplug the TV. At that point, the television was obviously
in perfect working order."

After the move:

In particular, the damaged items which prompt my dissatisfaction with Excel
Moving Services we The Sony Wega TV described above, the television simply
would not turn on"

Interesting. The TV set would not turn on after the move.

"I took the television to Audio Video Specialists in Durham, NC, who is a
Sony-authorized repair center. Kevin, the repair engineer at AVS diassembled
the television, replaced the PC logic board with one from another television in
his shop and determined that the TVs cathode ray tube (CRT) had a damaged
€˜shadow mask,"

The technician had to replace the mainboard first before discovering that the
picture tube was damaged. On a set that is as well built as a Sony, it would
take a fairly substantial shock to inflict the kind of damage on the mainboard
that would keep the television from powering on in the first place. Sony sets
of that size typically have well secured mainboards and extensive metal
shielding covering all over the outside rear of the picture tube. They also
have fairly substantial structural support due to the sheer weight of a large
TV, especially Sony sets.

"He noted that the only way such damage could occur was by being dropped and
wrote 'Shows Signs of Shipping Damage' on his report to Mayflower. Only after
reassembling the TV and while attempting to use the bezel as a handhold while
moving it to another location in his shop did he notice the slight crack in the
decorative bezel below the TV. He also noted the cracked bezel on his report."

This means that the drop was substantial enough to damage the mainboard, damage
the picture tube, and crack the casing.

All these parts cannot be damaged by a small drop or small incidences of shock,
especially the mainboard which is typically immobolized fairly effectively on a
Sony TV. Since the shock was substantial enough to damage the mainboard,
despite how it was assembled into place, that same shock would likely be more
than enough to wreak havoc on the innards of the picture tube.

It is a sad
fact that any tv, when dropped or roughly handled during transport
(ie, dropped such that only minor indications of physical damage were
noticeable) is highly likely to distort either the shadow mask or the
aperture grille.


That goes against your claim that specifies only Sony tubes as being
susceptible.

"Sony shadowmask tubes are particularly susceptible to damage after being
dropped."

At first, you claim that Sony tubes are particularly susceptible to damage when
dropped. Now you come out and say that "any TV" will likely suffer damage to
the picture tube if subject to excess shock.

You change your statement from a specific accusation to a broad generalization.

And, I say your statement of Sony tubes being "particularly susceptible to
damage after being dropped" an accusation because there is no other definition
of your statement. It is an accusation, pure and simple.

If you disagree, then you need to go back to school and study English.

It seems you are
not able to decipher the relevant aspects in a story and throow out
the bits which are not relevant to the original priblem posed by the
OP.


And you are too ingrained on your opinion that you are unable to view it in
much broader context.

You make an accusation and support it with a story that reveals more about what
happened and consequently downplays your claim. You didn't read the story well
enough to understand everything that could have happened to cause all that
damage.

First off, the author of the Epinions article hired a moving company that's as
trustworthy as Dan Quayle is proficient at spelling "potato." (Since you live
in Australia, you won't get this joke unless you remember that Dan Quayle was
Vice President under George Bush SR. [not to be confused with his son and
current president George W. Bush] from 1988 to 1992 in American politics who
earned a distinction of being an idiot by spelling potato "potatoe" at a public
speech.)

Second, the TV traveled approximately 2800 miles from California to North
Carolina. Anything could have happened between those locations during the
journey that may have caused the TV set to become damaged. This is exacerbated
if the items were not properly secured in the trailer. Anything, like abrupt
maneuvering, potholes, sudden braking, and the like can create the potential of
the load being dislodged and allowed to jostle inside the trailer.

Third, moving companies, like Mayflower, have storage facilities where items
may be taken out of the truck and placed in storage rooms until the items are
ready to be delivered to their final destination. The labor force hired to do
the moving of the items out of the truck and back into it may not have been as
careful as the folks who packed the truck back at the starting point.

Forth, substantial damage to items at the hands of moving companies, especially
if the load traveled a long distance, are not uncommon occurances in the United
States. People have had TVs, sofas, tables, guitar amps, chairs, console
stereos, lamps, paintings and pictures, and the like damaged or destroyed
during transit. I've read about them and I've seen the damage done to such
traveled items first hand while working at a repair shop.

And I stand by my argument that you obviously need every i dotted and
every t crossed and you are unable to sift wheat from the chaff in a
story.


And I guess you like being too lazy and prone to premature condemnation. -
Reinhart
  #14   Report Post  
LASERandDVDfan
 
Posts: n/a
Default I dropped the tv ( Sony circa December 1985)

|Reading your post establishes the idea that Sony TV sets are not durable.

???
How you can draw that assumption from a story of damage to a Sony TV
during transport, I can't imagine.


What you typed, verbatim.

"Sony shadowmask tubes are particularly susceptible to damage after being
dropped."

You typed this. Read it, and read it again. Your wording here most certainly
suggests what I claim about your contention.

It is an accusation that clearly narrows down to the subject. You clearly
typed that Sony picture tubes are "particularly susceptible to damage after
being dropped." You don't cite what kind of drop and you don't cite to what
degree, you just cite "a drop" which is a generalization. You make a clear
accusation with a broad and general description that allows the impression that
"Sony TVs are not durable" to be made in the first place.

If this was not the intended response to your statement, then you either need
to brush up on your writing skills or you could give Micheal Moore a run for
his money.

The story is more to do with the
reliability of the transport company and the care which they provide
to the goods they are transporting.


If you recognize the story to be off-topic and unrelated to begin with, then
why did you bother to bring it up in the first place?

I am not trying give any impression other than physical shock (ie
dropping or rough handling) to a tv can cause internal damage to the
picture tube which requires this item to be replaced at great expense.


Now you made it more logical, but contradictory to your original claim. Now
you state that any TV will sustain internal damage in the picture tube from a
severe shock, which was the statement I originally made in response to your
statement a day ago.

My response, as quoted:

"The Epinions article you've presented doesn't support your claim against Sony
TV sets. All the article does is suggest that a TV set can be severely damaged
by careless movers. Any other brand of TV would have yielded similar problems
had they been mishandled in the same fashion. If there was a drop substantial
enough to damage the mainboard and crack the casing, it's likely that the tube
will have been damaged as well."

Originally, you stated clearly and specifically that Sony picture tubes were
"particularly susceptible," now you say that all TVs will sustain damage in a
generalization.

If you were to hold on to your argument, you would have to say that "all TVs
would be vulnerable, but Sony TVs are more susceptible than anything else."

Since you are not wording your recent responses like this, you're not even
supporting your original contention anymore. Yet, you still want to get into a
****ing contest about this.

Unless it is established specifically what sort of "rough handling"
the particular Sony TV was subjected to, we can't draw that
conclusion, and I did not infer what you assume I did.


Then why did you make the accusation about Sony TV sets being "particularly
susceptible" to drop damage to begin with?

BTW, I am a strong supporter of Sony products and my household boasts
these items;


And what relevance does this statement have to this subject?

Being a Sony supporter or not is irrelevant.
Getting the facts straight, on the other hand, has been taking place on this
thread.

How many Sony items do you have?


Okay. Since we have to get into a ****ing contest about equipment:

Sony KV-27S66 television
Sony SL-HF400 SuperBeta hi-fi VCR
Sony SL-HF2000 SuperBeta hi-fi VCR
Sony SL-20 Betamax VCR
Sony SVO-160 VHS hi-fi VCR
Sony SLV-575UC VHS hi-fi VCR
Sony SLV-750HF VHS hi-fi VCR
Sony MDR-600 Monitor Headphones
Sony CPD-200GS monitor
Sony CPD-100SF montior
Sony SCPH-1001 PlayStation
Sony SCPH-30000 R PlayStation 2
Sony MDP-1000 LaserDisc player
Sony STR-DA4ES Digital Surround Receiver
Sony DVP-S360 DVD/CD Player
Sony ICF-C121 Clock Radio Alarm
Sony CDX-C560 MobileES car stereo
Sony CRX-140E Spressa IDE CD-RW
Sony CCD-TRV58 Hi-8 Camcorder
Sony SPP-95 Cordless Telephone
Sony SPP-S9101 Cordless Telephone
Sony M-540V Microcassette Recorder
Sony CPS-88S Multiband Radio Boombox
Sony D-105 Portable CD Player
Sony WM-FX403 Radio/Cassette Walkman
Sony WM-FX38 Radio/Cassette Walkman
Sony WM-FS191 Radio/Cassette Sports Walkman
Sony WM-EX102 Cassette Walkman

Apparently, a hell of a lot more than what you've got.

And I totally expect a backstabbing response like "oh, you own so many Sony
products, it's so obvious why you were in disagreement with me."

I'd hate to burst your bubble, but I also own many other electronics made by
other brands, mainly Japanese (Pioneer, JVC, Panasonic/Technics, Toshiba,
Yamaha, Onkyo, Mitsubishi, Akai, Hitachi, NEC), that have been as good, if not
superior, to some of my Sony items listed.

With such experience, I can assure anyone that if they want quality
electronics, they should buy Japanese unless they are willing and able to blow
a small fortune for exotic stuff from brands like Sunfire, Krell, Bryston,
Runco, Linn, Proceed, Meridian, Bang and Olufsen, Seleco, Lexicon, and various
other brands, many of which the general public do not know exist. - Reinhart
  #15   Report Post  
Tom MacIntyre
 
Posts: n/a
Default I dropped the tv ( Sony circa December 1985)

On 18 Jun 2004 03:41:57 GMT, (LASERandDVDfan)
wrote:

Listen up, don't be a nit picker...


Specifying very significant details that you either ignored or didn't factor is
not nit-picking.

Reading your post establishes the idea that Sony TV sets are not durable.
Posting a hyperlink to an Epinions article with a very vague description of
what the post was about tends to strengthen the impression you are trying to
create with your wrtiting.

However, when someone with any sense with electronics repair reads the article,
they'll find the particular scenario from that story would cause damage to ANY
TV set.

The point of that story is simply that after
mishandling by (in this case transporting) the sony tv had sustained
some damage to the picture tube which could only be repaired by a tube
replacement at great expense.


But what degree was the mishandling taken to? Apparently, according to the
Epinions article, a lot.

The story also describes that the mainboard had to be replaced by the
technician just to get the set to turn on in the first place.

If a drop was enough to destroy the original mainboard, then it may also be
enough to shift the innards of a picture tube. The larger the tube, the more
susceptible it is to this kind of damage. I don't care if it's a Sony, a
Toshiba, a Panasonic, or a Loewe. If a drop damages the mainboard to the
extent that it won't work anymore, then it's likely that the tube could be
trashed as well.

I stand by my arguments and feel that your claims are in error by bad example.
- Reinhart


Sorry to butt in. If my memory is correct, there are specific
admonitions with regards to degaussing Trinitron CRT's. If they are
more sensitive to that which is totally benign to a shadow mask CRT,
doesn't it follow that a lesser physical impact will also cause a
problem, compared to a shadow mask CRT?

Tom


  #17   Report Post  
LASERandDVDfan
 
Posts: n/a
Default I dropped the tv ( Sony circa December 1985)

I already addressed this. My memory may be flawed, but I am pretty
sure I read what I read in a Sony repair manual or training manual.



But, here's the thing.

The person said that Sony picture tubes are particularly susceptible to drop
damage, indicating Trinitrons are more sensitive to a much greater degree.

Sensitive or not, ANY CRT picture tube, be it Trinitron, Diamondtron, or a
shadow mask WILL sustain damage if dropped, PERIOD. Drop any large CRT display
from about two feet and the guts of the tube will be shifted.

Furthermore, if a drop is bad enough to damage a mainboard, what do you think
it will do to the picture tube, regardless of brand? - Reinhart
  #18   Report Post  
LASERandDVDfan
 
Posts: n/a
Default I dropped the tv ( Sony circa December 1985)

If my memory is correct, there are specific
admonitions with regards to degaussing Trinitron CRT's. If they are
more sensitive to that which is totally benign to a shadow mask CRT


SNIP

Shadow mask tubes are also just as vulnerable to internal damage from strong
magnetic influences.

If you use a powerful rare-earth magnet or a magnetron, you can destroy a CRT,
aperture grille or shadow mask.

Normal degaussing done properly, however, should pose no risk to any CRT. -
Reinhart
  #19   Report Post  
LASERandDVDfan
 
Posts: n/a
Default I dropped the tv ( Sony circa December 1985)

I simply said (in error) that Sony "shadow mask" (should have been
aperture grille) tubes are particularly susceptible to damage after
being dropped, and this is true even for a distance of 2 feet as in
the OP's case.


You drop just about any TV from two feet, you will damage it.

If we look at Sam Goldwasser's repair faqs


I've read that before a long time ago.


Lightly tap any trinitron tube item with your hand and you will notice
the picture shimmer.


And I know that's because of the vertical wires.

The same effect can not be achieved so easily
with a non aperture grille tube item.


Maybe because a shadow mask uses an alloy sheet that is finely perforated?

This is evidence of
suceptibility to vibration.


That means that the **wires** will move from the vibration, but what about the
support structure that holds the whole works together?

The wires themselves cannot become misaligned. The entire support structure
must be shifted to cause the wires to move out of position to cause purity
problems.

In order for the aperture grille tube to have similar strength and
resistance to implosion it has to be made of thicker glass than an
equivalent shadow mask tube.


Actually, this would apply to the current generation of Trinitron tubes, which
are flat face CRTs. Also, remember that flat face shadow mask CRTs also
require additional materials to support the tube structure to prevent
implosion, since the structural benefits of a dome face tube are lost in this
case.
Anyways, previous Trinitron generations had partial reinforcement from the
cylindrical shape of the tube face, which supported the tube structure on the
horizontal axis.

Now if two similar sized tubes,
one of either type, are dropped through the same (assume 2 feet)
distance, which one do you think is going to make a bigger impact when
it stops?


And my question is "what is the point?" Remember the point I made about
dropping TV sets from two feet. I don't care if it's a Sony or a Panasonic, a
drop like that will cause damage to many parts, including the picture tube,
PERIOD.

A 32 inch Trinitron tube will weigh more than a 32 inch shadow mask tube. But,
a 32 inch shadow mask tube is still a heavy part that will be damaged from
excessive shock.

(ed - Note the "during transportation". Have you seen similar
instruction to correct misalignment of the shadow mask in a shadow
mask tube following transportation?)


No. Typically, because if the shadow mask is misaligned, there is no way to
correct it short of replacing the picture tube. At least, according to your
source, there is a procedure to correct minor misalignments with Mitsubishi
tubes (and apparently, Mitsubishi tubes only) whereas a misalignment to any
degree with a shadow mask and probably even a Trinitron cannot be resolved.

Damper Wires:
The two faint horizontal lines that may be visible on the screen are
actually the shadows of steelwires called Damper Wires. All
Diamondtron U2-CRT based monitors have these wires for structural
reasons."


They have them to dampen resonance that can cause problems with the picture
during operation.

Have you ever tried to stop a guitar string from making noise by applying
pressure to it with your finger? Same principle.

Even the manufacturer is aware of the
susceptibility to shock and is careful to give suitable instruction
regarding this point during installation.


I would advise that for any TV. A drop is never a good thing on any TV set,
and not just because of the tube.

You not only jump to conclusions but you read into my statement
things which were not intended nor were inferred, except in your own
mind, that is.


Whatever.

Surely, any reasonable thinking person would read the story and
discarded the parts which were not relevant to the OP's post about
dropping his tv.


But you don't know what the TV would have been through in its travels from
California to North Carolina, so anything between departure and arrival could
have caused the damages to the TV.

Because there was little
evidence that the TV had been subjected to physical shock (by
dropping, for example) during transport. The owner was not aware that
it was damaged other than the set failed to switch on.


What can damage the mainboard to the point where it wouldn't switch on?

Cold solder joints? I could buy that, except that doesn't explain why the
board had to be swapped for a replacement from a parts unit.

I simply said the
tubes are susceptible to damage due to dropping, and this applies to
Mitsubishi tubes as well.


And Philips, and Toshiba, and Hitachi, and RCA, and Zenith, and any other
manufacturer of video CRTs.

You are aware that there have been instances of drop damage with shadow mask
tubes that made them show Atari-esque rainbows over the entire picture?

Also, Mitsubishi made both aperture grille and shadow mask tubes. However,
their Diamondtron tubes were used only for computer monitors.

You are again making assumptions without any evidence.


Read the Epinions article.

Why did the mainboard require replacement?

Again, the tech had to replace the board to get the TV to turn on! Before the
TV was ever loaded into the moving truck, it was working perfectly.

In what ways can the board be damaged to the degree where it became necessary
to replace it than repair it?

Answer that.

There is no
indication that the original board was damaged in any way.


That excerpt from the Epinions article was from the author of that article.
Sometimes, you can have a board that appears okay but have developed cracks on
the board that were enough to sever the traces. And, sometimes, these cracks
don't appear very obvious unless you know what to look for, such as a slightly
whiter discoloration of the board's normal color that travels as a fine line on
the board.

I would
assume that Kevin was simply trying the "swap and hope" method of
repair without any evidence that there was anything wrong with the
original board.


Then why would the TV set no longer turn on after it was unloaded from the
moving truck? It was working when it was loaded into the truck.

The only evidence of physical damage to the TV at all
was to a decorative bezel, not exactly "the casing" in my opinion


But it is part of the casing.

See, you are wrong again. I did not say "Sony TV sets" at all.


No. You said Sony picture tubes. But, you can only find Sony picture tubes in
Sony-manufactured video equipment. You cannot find a Sony Trinitron picture
tube in an RCA, a Philips, a Hitachi, a Toshiba, or anything except on a Sony
TV or computer monitor. As for other brands of **computer monitors** that use
Sony picture tubes, those monitors are also completely OEMed by Sony, with Sony
designed and manufactured electronic parts, for those brands.

So, in essence, you are implying that Sony TV sets are more susceptible to drop
damage. This is due to the simple fact that no other make of TV set uses Sony
picture tubes other than Sony themselves.

Unless you can show me a picture of a different brand of TV set that uses a
Sony Trinitron tube legitimately with everything around it not completely
designed by Sony themselves, then it is YOU who needs to get the facts
straight.

Nothing could be further from
the truth. I love 'em, but they must be protected from shock and
vibration as Sony themselves instruct.


But that's common sense advice when handling ANY television set.

It is relevant in order to see what your real beef is. I asked you
that question in order to establish if you have some sort of
sensitivity to criticism of Sony products. You responded in the manner
I expected...


And you replied in exactly the manner I expected and made clear in my previous
post.

You stabbed me in the back (which is a figure of speech). You used the ****ing
contest for me to make a list of products I owned so you could turn the
argument around and make me look like some blind fan. Curious, that you would
turn to this even though you yourself are an admitted supporter of Sony
products, which should make you no better than me in your world.

The point of my rebuttal is not in defense of Sony TV sets. But, rather, to
make clear that Sony TV sets are not special in requiring careful handling.
ALL TV sets require careful handling to prevent damage for more reasons than
the picture tube, although the picture tube is most definitely a major area of
concern from mishandling. To imply otherwise allows inaccurate impressions to
be drawn by those unfamiliar with the technology, which can brew unfair biases.

Anybody who has this amount of Sony products is obviously a Sony
Sycophant and I suspect you are extremely sensitive to anybody making
any statements which you perceive to be criticising a favoured
manufacturer's products


Backstabber.

You are correct that I was trying to
establish this fact.


Backstabber.

To set your mind at rest I would have all Sony
products too if I could afford them.


Okay, you're a backstabber and a "Sony Sycophant."

On the other hand it
is obvious why you can't see that even Sony products might have some
weaknesses


On the contrary. I collect electronics, and not just Sony. As for Sony, I am
selective. When I buy Sony, I tend to try and get higher end models. High end
Sony products are some of the best you can buy. But lower end Sony products
are, quite simply, some of the worst overpriced pieces of junk I have ever seen
since Bose loudspeakers. There are exceptions, but with Sony, the more you pay
for a higher end model, the much better off you will be.

One of the absolute worst receivers I've ever listened to: Sony DE series
receivers.
Some of the absolute worst CD players and tape decks I've listened to were
Sony.

Sony speakers: even Jensen speakers sounds better than Sony speakers!

If you ever buy Sony audio, only buy from their excellent ES line. Sony video
is great but Sony audio, save the Elevated Standard line, is ABSOLUTE GARBAGE!

One of the best receivers I've listened to: Sony STR-DA4ES, and I bought that
because I could get it for $300 instead of $700-$1000 at retail. But, I don't
have any other Sony audio components other than Walkmans and a Discman. The
Walkmans almost never see use as I spin CDs mostly, and my Sony Discman
collects dust as my Panasonic portable CD player has better sound quality and
durability with a longer battery life and superior defect tracking.

My Sony KV-27S66. I bought two of those for $30 as defective items. I built
one good one from the two. Although, I prefer Sony TVs because of positive
experiences with them in production uses, the price that I was able to get my
set for plus what I could do to have a working TV was what sealed the deal for
that particular set in my case.

Sony computer monitors. Same deal. I've had great experiences with Trinitron
and was presented with good deals, $5 and $25 respectively, so I snatched them
up. One required mainboard work as it had a small crack that severed one
trace. The other had no problems.

Sony VCRs. I got them when they were broken. The SVO-160 required repairs to
the capstan motor and the power supply. The SLV-575UC and the SLV-750HF also
required capstan repairs. I repaired them and I have had no troubles since.
As for Sony Beta VCRs, Sony makes better Betamax decks than Toshiba, NEC, and
Sanyo. Talk to any Betaphille, and they will say the same thing.

Sony MDR-V600 headphones. I got a set of MDR-V600 headphones that sell for
$130 MSRP for $10 at a pawnshop. I knew what they were and I snatched them up.
Best pair of headphones I've used since the Optimus PRO-35.

Sony clock radio. Bought it because it was there and had a great deal. It was
that or buy a clock radio from a crappy no-name brand that would likely have
required replacement after a year or so.

Sony DVD player. Bought it because I got a good deal and offered the
versaility that I needed with performance I liked. It has dual video and audio
outputs, SP-DIF coaxial and TOSLink optical outputs. Boots up discs blazingly
fast and has excellent video quality, save the minor problem with chroma
upsampling.

Sony Walkmans. One was bought new, two were bought used for low prices, while
the remaining one was given to me. All sit and collect dust.

Sony Discman. Given to me. Collects dust because I didn't like the sound
quality (gritty with a fatiguing effect) compared to my Panasonic discman
(smooth, detailed, lush, and accurate which isn't bad for a portable).

Sony car stereo CD player. Given to me, and I use it because it's a MobileES
model, meaning it's built better and sounds better than regular Sony car
stereos.

Sony CD-RW drive. Needed a CD writer and got an unbeatable deal on it so I
bought it.

Sony camcorder. Pawnshop buy. Needed a cheap Hi-8 camcorder that wasn't old.
The only choice they had was the Sony CCD-TRV58. It was either that or buy an
older camcorder with caps that already failed for the same price. Plus, I also
had a good extra battery for it that came from some bozo's Sony Mavica that
accidentally got dipped in the ocean.

Sony cordless phones. One, I bought used for real cheap. The other, given to
me as it required repair. Severed connection to the handset speaker, which was
repaired by a simple resoldering.

Sony microcassette recorder. Given to me.

Sony CPS-88S boombox. Given to me, and it's unique in that it receives
shortwave in addition to FM and AM.

Sony MDP-1000 LaserDisc player. I needed an LD player cheap and that was
available. It's been relegated as a spare player by a superior Pioneer
DVL-700. Talk to any LaserDisc buff and they will tell you that Pioneer
players rock while Sony players suck. In my experience with LD players, that
assessment is pretty accurate. While the MDP-1000 wasn't a bad player, other
examples of Sony players that I've seen were uttery terrible, except for the
MDP-605 and MDP-650.

Sony videogame systems. If you are into videogaming, then you should be aware
that Sony consoles have some great games available, which is also true of their
competition.

And that pretty much explains how I got all those Sony items.

Microsoft X-Box
Magnavox CD-I 200
Magnavox VR9680AT01 VHS hi-fi VCR
Mitsubishi HS-U52 VHS hi-fi VCR
Mitsubishi CS-2021 Television/Monitor
Grundig YB-400 PE multiwave radio
JVC HR-D970U VHS editor VCR
JVC TD-V711 3 head cassette deck
Onkyo DX-C106 six disc CD changer
Technics SL-7 tangential tracking turntable
Panasonic DVD-A110 DVD player
Panasonic FZ-1 3DO
Panasonic SL-S239C portable CD player
Panasonic KX-T1450 answering machine
Motorola StarTAC trimode CDMA celphone
RCA RP-7925A portable CD player
RCA RP-7913A portable CD player
RCA SJT-200 CED videodisc player
RCA SGT-250 CED videodisc player
Hitachi VIP-2000 CED videodisc player
Pioneer LD-700 LaserDisc player
Pioneer LD-870 LaserDisc player
Pioneer DVL-700 LD/DVD player
Yamaha YST-MS201 computer speakers
Canon FB-620P scanner
Canon AE-1 PROGRAM 35mm SLR
Epson Stylus Color 670 printer
LITE-ON DVD-ROM drive
Sharp 13 inch TV/VCR combo
Akai VS-525U VHS hi-fi VCR
Fisher FVH-950 VHS hi-fi VCR
Sears 564.53410450 Beta hi-fi VCR
Sherwood CD-C1000 CD player
NEC 25 inch TV
Toshiba SD-1700 DVD player (x2)
Sega Dreamcast
Sega Saturn
Sega Genesis (x2)
Sega CD (x3)
Sega Genesis CD-X
Sega Genesis Nomad
JVC X'Eye
Atari Lynx
Super Nintendo
Nintendo64
Nintendo GameCube

Your assurance is noted but it is sad that a lot of Japanese (and
European) brands are moving manufacture to mainland China and
quality/durability is suffering.


True. But that fact is hitting the European and American brands much harder
than the Japanese brands. Also, there is also the factor of engineering.
Lower end items, as well as most European and American items typically receive
attention very much like how the American automakers work: "design it until
it's just enough to work."

Plus, this is a reason why I buy only higher end Sony products. Even though a
few ES components have been built in Malaysia, they seem to still be crafted
with care and usually yield superior engineering over the conventional consumer
line. However, lower end ES products, particularly CD players and tape decks,
share many things with the regular Sony stuff, including transport designs.

Many of them are simply overpriced and are no
better in performance than more common brands in my opinion.


Also true.

The late Julian Hirsch made such a comment.

However, you usually still have to spend more to get more quality for audio,
even for mass-produced items. This doesn't necessarily indicate that you will
get more from the more expensive and lesser-known brands, but making a point
that the lowest end Denon receiver will beat the crap out of the lowest end
Sony receiver. This is because Denon puts more dilligence towards their craft
in terms of audio equipment than Sony's regular consumer lines, and that extra
dilligence costs extra money. - Reinhart
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