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Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems. |
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#1
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Sanken SAP15 , 5 pin Darlingtons
With the built in temp comp diodes, 1 silicon in the N type and 5
Schotky in the P and mirror-reversed pinning . Owner put a short across one speaker line, magic smoke but other channel is normal. Internal emitter resistor .22R of the p type is now not .22R. I intend removing both , of the failed channel , to check out of circuit, but anyone jumpered in an external .2R in these circumstances and no further problems from cracked die etc as this R is part of the die? The datasheet I think , in fractured English, says the thermal safe operating over-current zone, for the built in .22R is deliberately lower than the Darlington itself. Anyone ever disentangled the "English" referring to deliberately? destroying the internal R so as to use an external emitter R,or is it just referring to doubling-up ? datasheet http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datashe.../datasheet.pdf |
#2
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Sanken SAP15 , 5 pin Darlingtons
On 10/27/2016 10:18 AM, N_Cook wrote:
With the built in temp comp diodes, 1 silicon in the N type and 5 Schotky in the P and mirror-reversed pinning . Owner put a short across one speaker line, magic smoke but other channel is normal. Internal emitter resistor .22R of the p type is now not .22R. I intend removing both , of the failed channel , to check out of circuit, but anyone jumpered in an external .2R in these circumstances and no further problems from cracked die etc as this R is part of the die? The datasheet I think , in fractured English, says the thermal safe operating over-current zone, for the built in .22R is deliberately lower than the Darlington itself. Anyone ever disentangled the "English" referring to deliberately? destroying the internal R so as to use an external emitter R,or is it just referring to doubling-up ? datasheet http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datashe.../datasheet.pdf Hello Nigel, What amp are these in? I know Arcam used them in several products, such as the A65/75 series. I night have a good PDF of the data sheet if you need it. The pinout is different on the SAP15-N (NPN) and the SAP15-P (PNP) Regards, Tim Schwartz Bristol Electronics |
#3
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Sanken SAP15 , 5 pin Darlingtons
On 28/10/2016 1:18 AM, N_Cook wrote:
With the built in temp comp diodes, 1 silicon in the N type and 5 Schotky in the P and mirror-reversed pinning . Owner put a short across one speaker line, magic smoke but other channel is normal. Internal emitter resistor .22R of the p type is now not .22R. I intend removing both , of the failed channel , to check out of circuit, but anyone jumpered in an external .2R in these circumstances and no further problems from cracked die etc as this R is part of the die? The datasheet I think , in fractured English, says the thermal safe operating over-current zone, for the built in .22R is deliberately lower than the Darlington itself. Anyone ever disentangled the "English" referring to deliberately? destroying the internal R so as to use an external emitter R,or is it just referring to doubling-up ? datasheet http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datashe.../datasheet.pdf **I did once in a client's amp, to see what would happen. It worked fine, but I decided to fit new devices to be certain. These Sanken things are horrible. Sanken has a nasty track record of releasing devices, then ceasing production after a few years. After which, substitutes can be either difficult or impossible to obtain. Give me a standard 3 terminal transistor every day. I'm presently working on a 1975 vintage Accuphase, which will accept modern replacement devices quite nicely. In 10 years, those Sanken things will be unavailable and the units that they're fitted to will be boat anchors. I advise anyone who will listen to avoid products that use Sanken devices for that reason. -- Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
#4
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Sanken SAP15 , 5 pin Darlingtons
On 27.10.16 16:18, N_Cook wrote:
With the built in temp comp diodes, 1 silicon in the N type and 5 Schotky in the P and mirror-reversed pinning . Owner put a short across one speaker line, magic smoke but other channel is normal. Internal emitter resistor .22R of the p type is now not .22R. I intend removing both , of the failed channel , to check out of circuit, but anyone jumpered in an external .2R in these circumstances and no further problems from cracked die etc as this R is part of the die? The datasheet I think , in fractured English, says the thermal safe operating over-current zone, for the built in .22R is deliberately lower than the Darlington itself. Anyone ever disentangled the "English" referring to deliberately? destroying the internal R so as to use an external emitter R,or is it just referring to doubling-up ? datasheet http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datashe.../datasheet.pdf "alldatasheet.com currently unavailable" GRRRRRR |
#5
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Sanken SAP15 , 5 pin Darlingtons
N_Cook wrote:
With the built in temp comp diodes, 1 silicon in the N type and 5 Schotky in the P and mirror-reversed pinning . Owner put a short across one speaker line, magic smoke but other channel is normal. Internal emitter resistor .22R of the p type is now not .22R. I intend removing both , of the failed channel , to check out of circuit, but anyone jumpered in an external .2R in these circumstances and no further problems from cracked die etc as this R is part of the die? ** The 0.22 ohm is not part of the die, but a separate thick film resistor as stated in the Sanken data. The datasheet I think , in fractured English, says the thermal safe operating over-current zone, for the built in .22R is deliberately lower than the Darlington itself. ** The max current rating of the 0.22ohm is somewhat less than the Darlington itself - but this is not deliberate, just a practical limitation. If the internal resistor has failed, the Darlington may still be OK. Designers can use an external WW resistor if needed, or add a current limiter circuit that protects the inbuilt one. I have seen a lot of these devices used in powered speakers made by dB Technologies - their "Opera" series and others. The "English" in the app notes is bloody dreadful. ..... Phil |
#6
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Sanken SAP15 , 5 pin Darlingtons
On 27/10/2016 22:49, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 28/10/2016 1:18 AM, N_Cook wrote: With the built in temp comp diodes, 1 silicon in the N type and 5 Schotky in the P and mirror-reversed pinning . Owner put a short across one speaker line, magic smoke but other channel is normal. Internal emitter resistor .22R of the p type is now not .22R. I intend removing both , of the failed channel , to check out of circuit, but anyone jumpered in an external .2R in these circumstances and no further problems from cracked die etc as this R is part of the die? The datasheet I think , in fractured English, says the thermal safe operating over-current zone, for the built in .22R is deliberately lower than the Darlington itself. Anyone ever disentangled the "English" referring to deliberately? destroying the internal R so as to use an external emitter R,or is it just referring to doubling-up ? datasheet http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datashe.../datasheet.pdf **I did once in a client's amp, to see what would happen. It worked fine, but I decided to fit new devices to be certain. These Sanken things are horrible. Sanken has a nasty track record of releasing devices, then ceasing production after a few years. After which, substitutes can be either difficult or impossible to obtain. Give me a standard 3 terminal transistor every day. I'm presently working on a 1975 vintage Accuphase, which will accept modern replacement devices quite nicely. In 10 years, those Sanken things will be unavailable and the units that they're fitted to will be boat anchors. I advise anyone who will listen to avoid products that use Sanken devices for that reason. After removing , it became obvious low ohmic C-E, so bang goes that idea. Perhaps 120V,12A standard pDarlington, with external .2R and 5 SMD Shottky diodes RTV'd on the top, rather than expensive old-stock SAP15. Cambridge A5 amp, made in DRC = The Congo ? |
#7
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Sanken SAP15 , 5 pin Darlingtons
On Thu, 27 Oct 2016 23:57:02 +0200, Sjouke Burry
wrote: On 27.10.16 16:18, N_Cook wrote: With the built in temp comp diodes, 1 silicon in the N type and 5 Schotky in the P and mirror-reversed pinning . Owner put a short across one speaker line, magic smoke but other channel is normal. Internal emitter resistor .22R of the p type is now not .22R. I intend removing both , of the failed channel , to check out of circuit, but anyone jumpered in an external .2R in these circumstances and no further problems from cracked die etc as this R is part of the die? The datasheet I think , in fractured English, says the thermal safe operating over-current zone, for the built in .22R is deliberately lower than the Darlington itself. Anyone ever disentangled the "English" referring to deliberately? destroying the internal R so as to use an external emitter R,or is it just referring to doubling-up ? datasheet http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datashe.../datasheet.pdf "alldatasheet.com currently unavailable" GRRRRRR http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datashe...KEN/SAP15.html |
#8
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Sanken SAP15 , 5 pin Darlingtons
On Fri, 28 Oct 2016 08:49:41 +1100, Trevor Wilson
wrote: On 28/10/2016 1:18 AM, N_Cook wrote: With the built in temp comp diodes, 1 silicon in the N type and 5 Schotky in the P and mirror-reversed pinning . Owner put a short across one speaker line, magic smoke but other channel is normal. Internal emitter resistor .22R of the p type is now not .22R. I intend removing both , of the failed channel , to check out of circuit, but anyone jumpered in an external .2R in these circumstances and no further problems from cracked die etc as this R is part of the die? The datasheet I think , in fractured English, says the thermal safe operating over-current zone, for the built in .22R is deliberately lower than the Darlington itself. Anyone ever disentangled the "English" referring to deliberately? destroying the internal R so as to use an external emitter R,or is it just referring to doubling-up ? datasheet http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datashe.../datasheet.pdf **I did once in a client's amp, to see what would happen. It worked fine, but I decided to fit new devices to be certain. These Sanken things are horrible. Sanken has a nasty track record of releasing devices, then ceasing production after a few years. After which, substitutes can be either difficult or impossible to obtain. Give me a standard 3 terminal transistor every day. I'm presently working on a 1975 vintage Accuphase, which will accept modern replacement devices quite nicely. In 10 years, those Sanken things will be unavailable and the units that they're fitted to will be boat anchors. I advise anyone who will listen to avoid products that use Sanken devices for that reason. Does anyone remember the Sanken output IC that JVC used in its integrated amplifiers that had the exact same number as used by other manufactuers but when replaced by any IC not sold by JVC there was huge notch distortion? I spent quite some time on the first one that I repaired. After the ICs were no longer available from JVC, I found by adding external resistors that the distortion could be eliminated. I had an Accuphase E-202 amp and still have the service manual somewhere if this happens to be the amp you are working on and you need a schematic. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
#9
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Sanken SAP15 , 5 pin Darlingtons
Nutcase Kook wrote:
After removing , it became obvious low ohmic C-E, so bang goes that idea. Perhaps 120V,12A standard pDarlington, with external .2R and 5 SMD Shottky diodes RTV'd on the top, rather than expensive old-stock SAP15. Cambridge A5 amp, made in DRC = The Congo ? ** ROTFL !! https://www.avforums.com/threads/cam...-views.867584/ " Made under license in PRC " PRC = People's Republic of China, established in 1949 by Mao Zedung. No jungle monkeys involved .... ..... Phil |
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